SIGRIST:

Good morning. This is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. Today is March 18 th , 1999, Thursday morning, approximately five minutes of ten o'clock. And we're in Metuchen, New Jersey. I am the director of the Oral History Project and I'm here with Lauren Lancaster, who will be conducting her first interview for the Ellis Island Oral History Project with Mr. William Hayevy. Lauren...

LANCASTER:

Good morning. This is Lauren Lancaster. I'm a student intern from Rutgers University. Today is Thursday, the 18 th of March, 1999 and I'm in Metuchen at the home of William Hayevy who came from Austria-Hungary [sic, the Ukraine] in 1923 when he was eighteen years old. Also in the room is his son Bill. Why don't we begin [microphone disturbance] by you giving me your name and date of birth, please.

HAYEVY:

My name is William Hayevy.

LANCASTER:

And your date of birth?

HAYEVY:

March [sighs], 1905, March 4.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Could you spell your last name, please?

HAYEVY:

H-A-Y-E-V-Y.

LANCASTER:

And could you tell me what town you were born in?

HAYEVY:

I was born in , is no town but next to town where we went to school and church, there was little town so we belonged there. But villagers, they, it's a different life than people live in town or, or in a city, you know. Because villagers, they have a, almost every villager has a piece of farm and they using that farm. They, they planting everything. They, to make living. You, you, you, you was making living from your farm, not from the, go to city, buy it in city something; piece of bread or something like that. In, uh, in town we used to buy what? Kerosene, sugar, salt, something like that but like bread and everything else, it was all homemade. Always what you got from your farm and how you use it and, and that's how you was making living.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell me about the village that you're from?

HAYEVY:

Uh, oh, village [microphone disturbance] my, my village was named Zastavi.

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Z-A-S-T-A-V-I.

SIGRIST:

Let me just say for the sake of the tape that's Bill and, the son, and Bill, if you could do that slowly and more loudly

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Zastavi, Z-A-S-T-A-V-I.

SIGRIST:

Thank you.

HAYEVY:

And, uh, what? And town, next town where we went to, where I went to school and, and church, Uhniw.

SIGRIST:

Bill? [Laughs]

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

I believe it's U-H-N-I-W.

SIGRIST:

Thank you.

HAYEVY:

I could show you on a map. [Laughs]

LANCASTER:

Okay. You said that you went to school....

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...in the town. I'm sorry I can't pronounce it.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

The town next to your village.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, about, about one kilometer...

LANCASTER:

Okay.

HAYEVY:

...from village to school.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Can, can you tell me about the school?

HAYEVY:

In school we was, they teach us, well, in school they teach us Ural, Ural language, you know, like [microphone disturbance] when the Ukrainians, they was teaching us first year, first grade Ukrainian. In second grade, grade, there was a lot of Polish people, too, so they taught us Polish. So we learned two languages in grammar school. In third grade, Ukrainian, Polish, and German but German [microphone disturbance], well, I just finished third grade and war broke out [microphone disturbance], you know, in 1914, I was about ten years old. So I, my, my, my school was finished.

SIGRIST:

We're going to pause just for a moment. [Break in tape. Mr. Sigrist readjusts Mr. Hayevy's microphone]...resuming.

LANCASTER:

Okay, did you, you were talking about your school and...

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...and, and then war started

HAYEVY:

Well, yeah. 1914 war started, war, we're going to have First World War. And I didn't go to school no more then because there was, you know, armies coming and going, you know, and we didn't have no chance to go so we played war games, you know, the kids like me, I was ten years old. So we had a lot of ammunition, a lot of, of rifles and then we played with that. Uh, it was something that you can't believe, you know, unless you see it, you know, what was going on. So when the Russian Army come, come to our place, you know, because that was, they, they fought Austria and Germans, see? They come to our place in 1914 early. But they was all right because a lot of them was Ukrainian in Russian Army, you know. From, from the part of Ukraine that's Russian, Russia kept [kept down?] for a, for centuries, you know, so they spoke Ukrainian. They was good people. So they went all the way to, to Carpathian Mountains, see, Russians and then they, they didn't go any further because German send their army and chase them out. So in 1915, German Army push Russian back. Russians have to, uh, retreat to, to Russia, well, wherever, you know. So German was following them. And then civilian people, you know, they didn't know what will happen to them. So we start to run the way Russia run. Like the people that they had horses and wagons, you know, they went so far and then they went back, see? But people that they didn't have that, any transportation, you know, so they, they just was running and they never, you know, Russians, Russian's army , you know, they pick them up and took them to Russia. So that's where I wind up, wind up, you know, me and my sister and mother and stayed there for almost three years until Russian Revolution. So I was in Russia in 1917 when Russian Revolution begun. And when the First World War, you know, it finished, so Russians start to send the Austrian prisoners back where they came from, you know, because there was no war no more. So we get on the same train as these prisoners and we went back home because part of my country they used to call Galicia, Galicia, see? So that was under Austria. And now, uh, in, after Second World War, they made, they got that part of the country and, and, and gave it to Ukraine, see? So now it's Ukraine. So, uh...

LANCASTER:

Okay. Can you tell me about, you mentioned that in your, in your town, I'm just going to bring it back to your, to your town for now, you said that, did you have a farm? You said that people...

HAYVEY:

Yeah, yeah, we had, we had farm. We had about seven acres of farm so that was good enough for one family, you know, to do everything. You get your grain, you know, like rye and wheat and oats. Oat[s] for horses anyway. And, so you, you was using that for a, you [make?] potatoes, a lot of potatoes. So every, every village is, was doing the same thing unless some people, they didn't have no village so they have to work for, work for village that had farm there, have to help them to make living, see? It was poor living. So, uh...

LANCASTER:

Can you recall any, any incidents, when the war did start, on the farm? Did, did the soldiers come through? Did they stay?

HAYVEY:

When, when the Russian come in, it was pretty quiet. But when they was retreating, you know, and German's artillery was firing on that town there at the time, the town was burning. So there was some shells falling around my village, you know. But then we start to run away. I never knew what happened. We, we start to go east and soldiers pick us up, you know, and we went all the way to Russia. we went to Kiev in Ukraine, see? And in Kiev there was some, in, in those refugees, you know, there was some Polish people and Ukrainian. It was kids and parents. So the old people was separated and send them so they could work, you know. And kids, Polish people were separated all together from, from the Ukrainian. And Ukrainian was taken over into the, the deep Russia. So what, they didn't want to, the, the Polish people, they stay in Kiev and older people stay in Kiev. That's, that's in Ukraine, you know. But in those, in those days they used to call it Russia. They used to call "mallo [ph] Russia", "Little Russia." See, "mallo [ph] Russia," it's "Little Russia." That's what Russians used to call our country Ukraine, you know.

LANCASTER:

I would just like to pause for a minute to look over my notes.

SIGRIST:

Sure. [Break in tape]...now resuming. Lauren, why don't you explain how we're going to go about doing this interview.

LANCASTER:

Okay, I'm going, I definitely want to, you know, ask plenty of questions about after the war but I'm going to start off...

SIGRIST:

And during the war.

LANCASTER:

...and during the war. [Laughs] But I'm going to start off asking some questions about your life before the war.

HAYVEY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

We always discussed a bit about the town that you were born in.

HAYVEY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Did you have any, anything else to say about the town that you were born in when you were younger?

SIGRIST:

Keep talking. I'm just going to adjust your mike. [Microphone disturbance] It keeps wanting to turn over. There we go.

HAYVEY:

Well, I can't, [coughs] I can't say too much. I just want to say that when my father die, you know, so nobody, my mother couldn't handle, couldn't handle farm, so we, you know, it start to go pretty rough for us. So then, and, and then war broke out, you know, because my father died when I was about maybe eight or nine years old, see? So, so then, uh, I even don't, don't remember my father's face.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell anything that you do remember about your father?

HAYVEY:

I don't know what, I don't know why, what happened to him because over there on the village the people never, never had doctors. They never go to doctors. There was some homemade doctors, you know, or they was doing something that they knew how to do it, you know. Old people, you know, old people was different, see? So whatever, how my father, he probably died of heart problem, see, because I remember me and my sister, we went to church, you know, in the morning. And when we come back, my father was dead, see? My mother said that he had like fur, well, sheep's coat anyway. He through on the, on the floor and lay down and was caput. He die. So that's all I, that's all I know. So we bury him.

LANCASTER:

Can you describe your relationship with your father before he died?

HAYEVY:

Well, when I was small, you know, so he took me on a, a wagon, you know, horse and wagon. He hold me in his hand. That's, I remember a little bit. And then, and then I was taking care of, when I was about six, maybe six years old, I, I ride horses, you know, used to take care of horses. But my father already was dead, I think. No, he still was alive but, buy anyway on the farm, on the, on the, in the villages if you, you know, you had couple cows and every villager have horses and wagon because they have to plow the ground and everything. So, but, unless somebody didn't have anything like that so there was more suffering. So, so I was hanging around, you k now, take horses. Like my father, I remember one time, we went out on the field and I ride my horse, horse, you know. So I remember that, and horse, I know, trip with his front legs, you know, and I went over his head, you know, in, in the ground. But nothing happened because over there ground, soil you know, clean. No rocks, no glass, nothing. I mean you couldn't, you couldn't get hurt, see? Especially where you plant potatoes, you know, it's real soft ground. So, uh, and I used to take care of, of horses until, until war broke out. Like war broke out, Austrian Army, they took one of our horse, you know, and one horse neighbors and his, and their wagon. And, uh, and, uh, man. Well, he was maybe fifteen years old, so he have to go on that wagon train, you know, for the army, carry supplies. So we never get that horse back and we never, and that fellow never come back. Nobody know what happen. And another horse, like when the Russian Army start to come in, you know, and I figure, and my horse was in the stables there and I figure, well, if they come and start to burn then it's no good. Maybe it's no good for, might burn out horse. So I let that horse go out on the field, you know, behind the barns. And when Russians come to the, there was station, railroad station on the way, and when they start to fire, you know, and my horse got killed. Got a bullet in the neck. And we had nothing.

LANCASTER:

Okay, well, you seem, I seem to notice that horses played a large role on your farm. Did you have, did you have any other animals on your farm that, or can you tell me about the other animals that you may have had?

HAYEVY:

What do you mean?

LANCASTER:

Other animals that you...

HAYEVY:

Oh, oh, yeah. We had [laughs] just cows, two cows and two horses. And maybe ten chickens. And a pig in a, you know, one pig that was, that was feeding pig, you know, whole year until Easter. Then they kill pig so they got meat. That's how they was doing. So they had bacon for whole year after. No, people didn't eat meat over there, I tell you, maybe once a week. But they was healthy.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell me what kinds of things you did eat?

HAYEVY:

Potatoes and like, uh, and the rest, you know, they make flour, and the mother make all different things like macaro--, uh, noodles and everything. We, they, you know, the women there was good cook. They knew how to cook and they knew how to bake so, uh...

LANCASTER:

So your mother did, did most of the baking and the cooking in the house?

HAYEVY:

Yeah, and they was making bread, you know, every two weeks, I think, about, about eleven or twelve loaves. Big loaves, you know. And there was in, you know, the, they, they work, they make fire in a, in a oven, you know, where they bake bread. And when that oven got hot, you know, it was made out of bricks, so they put out all ashes out and make bread and just shove like they do with a pizza pie, see? They shove it inside same way. And then they, they, that bread lasts for a, you didn't eat fresh bread. Nobody liked fresh bread anyway. So it was, and they used to say, "If you have a bread on the table, you'll never go hungry." And potatoes and the main, the main course of everything, you know. They had all winter potatoes. They bury in the ground, you know, and, uh...

LANCASTER:

Did you have a favorite food that you would eat?

HAYEVY:

A what?

LANCASTER:

A favorite food? Was there something special that your mother would cook?

HAYEVY:

[laughs] Well, I'll tell you something. I think everything was special, [laughs] the things they cook. My mother, my mother would make a lot of different, but she was, she was good cook. Maybe some, maybe some woman wasn't that good. I don't know. But, uh, because some women bake bread, their bread was different that what my mother made, you know. But, but, like if you want to, you think some special food like over here we got, forget about it. [Laughs] So...

LANCASTER:

What was your mother's name?

HAYEVY:

Sophie, Sophia.

LANCASTER:

And do you know what her maiden name was?

HAYEVY:

Maiden name? [?]

LANCASTER:

Can you spell that?

HAYEVY:

Oh, I can't, let's see, it has in it in there a paper I have.

SIGRIST:

Well, we can look it up after the, Bill will go. [Mr. Hayevy coughs, Mr. Sigrist addresses Ms. Lancaster] I would also like to know his father's name.

LANCASTER:

Okay, yeah, so...

SIGRIST:

My father's name is Jacob.

LANCASTER:

Jacob. Can you describe your mother's personality at all?

HAYEVY:

My mother's personality? She work on the farm like any woman. She work in the house like any woman. And, uh, what? Sunday got to church, two times. [A squeaking noise can be heard in the background] And that's the personality.

LANCASTER:

Do you think...

HAYEVY:

There, there is no certain way, way, like you sitting here, you know, and you're nice looking lady, you know, and you're doing something and you could say "personality," you know. But over there, woman was, was working like a horse, you know. They, they, they work hard. Everything has to be done. Like on the summer on the field, you know, the farms, everything was done by hand. Every, everybody, nobody wear shoes on the summer. I was barefooted because ground, you know, the soil over there was soft and no rocks. We didn't have no rocks. So...

LANCASTER:

Did your mother teach you anything? Can you think of any specific thing that your mother may have taught you?

HAYEVY:

Well, I don't know who taught me to, to say prayer. And I still pray everyday, whether my father or my mother? But you asked what my mother could teach me. Nothing. What I, what I learn in school, that's about all. But like we went, we didn't go to school no more. Boys like me, we had a lot of stuff, you know, that Russian Army was destroying [a telephone rings in the background] what used to belong to Austria, ammunition and everything they burn, you know. So we used to go and play with these things. They, they burn the ammunition, you know, ammunition exploded. And then we used to pick up the, the scraps, you know, and sell to the Jews because Jewish people there they all was all merchants. This, see, in the little town where we used to go, there was majority, well, there was Christian people, there was Polish people and Ukrainian. Polish people, they had church and Ukrainians, they had church, see? And Jewish, they had their synagogue. But all merchants was Jewish, see? Whenever you want to buy kerosene, you know, sugar or something, you go to town and buy that, see? So, uh, the rest, the rest we had what we had. [The voice of Mr. Hayevy's daughter-in-law speaking on the telephone in another area of the house can be heard in the background].

SIGRIST:

[addressing Mr. Hayevy's son who is searching for his father's personal papers] Bill, Bill.

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

It's okay. You can come sit and relax. [Laughs]

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

All right. I can't, I can't find them, so...

SIGRIST:

We'll, we'll do that later. [Addressing Ms. Lancaster] Again, there is more interesting material [Mr. Hayevy coughs] to follow up on. I think before we get too far away, I think that I would like to hear Mr. Hayevy say his prayer.

LANCASTER:

Could you, can you tell, say one of your prayers in, in your language?

HAYEVY:

The what?

LANCASTER:

Can you, do you remember any of your prayers that you learned when you were in the Ukraine?

HAYEVY:

What I learn in school, I learn in school. But what I learn, you know, how to handle horse, I already was small. I handled horses, you know. That's so, tha's so you, see, the boy that was growing up like maybe twelve years old already, they go and plow the ground, you know. Two horses pulling the plow, and you was learning that. That was, that was for the boy, for the boys like over here they take math and play baseball, you know. So we, we was, we was doing, try to cultivate ground, you know and doing, and start to learn what our father's did, see?

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Can you, can you say your prayers she wants to know? Your prayers that you said you learned?

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

In Ukrainian? Can you say them for her?

HAYEVY:

Oh.

SIGRIST:

Can you say a prayer for us on tape? Slowly.

HAYEVY:

[he recites the Lord's Prayer in Ukrainian] That was "Our Father."

SIGRIST:

Thank you. Is there another one? Do you remember another one, like a, did you say grace before dinner?

HAYEVY:

Yeah, well, uh, "I believe, you know, "We believe," and, oh, I, I knew more but I forgot. I just, you know, "Our Father" and "We believe." That I say every day.

SIGRIST:

I, I should say for the sake of the tape that all the squeaking that's being picked up is...

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Oh, oh, sorry.

SIGRIST:

That's all right, that's all right. Just be conscious of it.

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

Okay, okay.

SIGRIST:

No, that's, that's quite all right. [Addressing Ms. Lancaster] Okay, go, go back to whichever direction you'd like to go in. There's a lot, there's a lot to follow up on.

LANCASTER:

[Mr. Hayevy coughs] Okay, well, while we're on the, you know, the topic of prayer, can you talk about your church?

HAYEVY:

My church? Yeah, my, the Ukrainian church they used to call Greek Catholic church, Greek Ukrainian Catholic. They used to call Greek Catholic because I think they got religions from Greece but Greeks but Orthodox just like Russian and others, you know. But Ukrainians, they, they went to, in 1500 I think, they joined the, they joined the Rome, so they, then they became Catholic, but Greek Catholic. So now they call Greek, Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. So we belong to Rome just like, like Roman Catholic people, you know, like Poles. END OF SIDE A, TAPE 1 BEGIN SIDE B, TAPE 1

HAYEVY:

Roman Catholics, see? So they have a different church. We have a different style. We have an eastern style. If you ever see Greece, Greek Church, priest, is bishop. Or Russian, or, or, or Russian, you know. So different, they're different. They have a different [quoting?] you know. Altogether different, nicer than in Roman Catholic.

LANCASTER:

How often did you go to church...

HAYEVY:

Now?

LANCASTER:

...when you were in the Ukraine?

HAYEVY:

Oh, in, in Europe? In Europe we used to go to church Sunday, High Mass and then Vespers, you know, on the evening. Sometimes we go to early Mass but, but everybody go to church. Everybody used to go to church.

LANCASTER:

And your church was in the, the town next to the village?

HAYEVY:

So like now, I wasn't, I didn't go to my church already more than eight, nine years. I go sometime with my son to Roman Catholic Church, you know.

SIGRIST:

We're going to pause just for a...[break in tape]...resume now. Go ahead, Lauren

LANCASTER:

Okay, I'd actually like to, to go back and have you describe your house, your home.

HAYEVY:

Oh, my home. In those days, I don't know how they do it now, but in those days, you know, early this century, there was hut, you know. One big house; half was for a, like storage and half you live in the, in the house. There was family of four. They was in one room. They was [standing?], the family, they still was in the same room, one room. So there was kitchen and holy picture was all around, you know, big pictures. Every house had pictures. And then dishes and table and beds, and there was no bed. You slept on a, on a bench, so...

LANCASTER:

So how many roo--, there was one room for the family and one room for storage?

HAYEVY:

Yeah. And one room on the back for the pig.

LANCASTER:

Okay.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, that's how it was. They, nobody, nobody had house with two rooms, no. In those days a roof was covered with straw, with straw, you know. It was strong roof but it could set on fire fast. And, uh, and that's it. You had stove. You had oven to bake and everything.

LANCASTER:

How was, how was your home heated?

HAYEVY:

How?

LANCASTER:

Heated? How was your home heated?

HAYEVY:

With a, we have stove, you know. Just like over here they had all stoves, you don't know probably, that they used to, wood or coal or something, you know. The same thing.

SIGRIST:

May I ask a question? I have, do you remember an instance where a house did catch on fire? Where the roof of somebody's house caught on fire?

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Can you talk about that?

HAYEVY:

Well, my aunt and my uncle's house was close, you know. And I don't how that get on fire, you know, but, but it went on fire two houses. So somebody, I don't know, somebody said that my uncle's son, you know, that he set it on fire that house. And then my, my aunt, like my uncle's house here [he gestures] and my aunt's house here [he gestures] and that caught on fire, see? So, so I didn't see it when I was, I don't know, I think I was working that time already. That was after the war, you know. I work on the railroad on the tracks.

SIGRIST:

Did anyone get hurt...

HAYEVY:

No.

SIGRIST:

...when the houses burned?

HAYEVY:

No.

SIGRIST:

No. Okay. I apologize, Lauren. I didn't want to interrupt but I thought there might be something there and there was, good. Go ahead.

LANCASTER:

Okay, I'm just curious. Did you have any brothers and sisters?

HAYEVY:

I had one brother. He die small baby. I don't remember him. [He was boy?]. And then my young sister, she die in, in Russia already. She got sick. And, and one big sister that I came to this country with, my sister.

LANCASTER:

Do you remember, um, any of your, your younger sister or your younger brothers birth?

HAYEVY:

Ahh, my sister...[microphone disturbance].

SIGRIST:

Up, we're gonna pause to fix the mic...resuming after Lauren ah, has fixed Mr. Hayevy's microphone.

HAYEVY:

My, my sis, you know the, little brother I don't remember when he was, when he was born, he, he die small, he was baby. And a another sister, she die in Russia, she was maybe six years old, see but I don't, I don't remember her birthday you know. But my older sister that we came to this country, she was born the same day as I was, you know March 4, 1902.

LANCASTER:

Are you very close to your, your older sister?

HAYEVY:

We always was close.

LANCASTER:

Can you talk about that?

HAYEVY:

Well she [cough] she used to take care of me a lot, my mother my mother went to this country 1921 so it was only me and my sister so I had jobs, I work and we make living. And then our mother gets us over here in 1943. But my sister we was close all our life.

LANCASTER:

Did you, um, did you have any other family members that lived near by?

HAYEVY:

Not, not here, just one just one lady. First cousin you know my uncles daughter, and my uncle was brother to my father so she's still, Malankos [ph], so she's still in Jersey City you know but I don't know if she's [living, losing?], that's the only one that I've got.

LANCASTER:

Did you, did you have family members that lived near by when you lived in the Ukraine?

HAYEVY:

Yeah, well all of the, all ahh, all relatives and the rest all, all farming and all close to you, you know it was different life, village, village, village was different life than we've got over here, you know, in the city.

SIGRIST:

I, I see what the problem is, your shoe is hooked shoe is hooked onto the microphone, there, there you go, now it won't come off. Lauren, this actually might be a good time to begin the World War One topic, just in terms of how we're progressing time wise. If you have a few more questions to ask go ahead but then I think we should get on with, try...[Mr. Hayevy coughs]

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

[addressing Ms. Lancaster] You might ask him too, he says his sister was, died in Russia and even some of these stories I'm hearing for the first time here. Find out how old he was when she died and like, you know...

SIGRIST:

Yeah that's, I, I, I agree with Bill on that ...

MR HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

And that might have been, might of been during the war.

SIGRIST:

...that's a good thing to follow up on. Why she died, what he remembers...

MR. HAYEVY'S SON BILL:

How old was he...

SIGRIST:

Yeah, that'd be a very good thing to do actually.

LANCASTER:

Ok, well then can you tell me how old you were when your sister died in Russia?

HAYEVY:

I think I was twelve years old.

LANCASTER:

Can you, can you tell me why she died?

HAYEVY:

No, I can't, I can't tell you. She didn't go, I mean they didn't take her to doctor there was no doctor there was only nurse taking care of all kids you know [coughs]. No I, I, I can't tell you what happened to her.

LANCASTER:

It was during the years you were living in Russia though? She died while you were living in Russia?

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

Can I just pause for a moment?

SIGRIST:

Sure. [Resume] We've been talking about the death of Mr. Hayevy's sister.

LANCASTER:

Can you talk about how your sister's death personally affected you?

HAYEVY:

You mean, no. You mean the one that died?

LANCASTER:

The one that died in Russia.

HAYEVY:

Yeah. There was, there was a lot of kids there you know and, and she was my sister you know, so I see she was dying, but what, what kind, what trouble she had I don't know.

LANCASTER:

How did, how did you feel?

HAYEVY:

Well I felt pretty bad, you know when you see something like a, well I see she was dying you know, but she was a like, she had like convulsions you know. So that, that was bothering me see. Like a when my wife die, I see my wife dying I was in hospital at the bed you know I see she was dying, and she died. And like people making picture of something that they die and they close eyes is not so, you open your eyes and you open your mouth. When you die your eyes maybe that big [gestures with hands] see, so I see it you know, my wife. So a, after my wife died you know I couldn't talk about her I start to cry all the time. So, that's, that's I could tell what I see you know.

LANCASTER:

Ok, can, can you talk about when you were, when you were in Russia what it was like when you were living there during the war?

HAYEVY:

A, it was alright, they took care, they took, I was surprised you know that they took care of us, you know, those kids over there. See my sister was working in the kitchen and there was other couple ladies that work in the kitchen, and kids was going to school. I went to school over there two years. They put me back in second grade and third grade, but it was all right I learn something, little bit. And a we live in a nice summer home at the end of the town you know of the city. There was botanical garden, and near botanical garden and a little further out there was big lake so we use to swim there. But a they was taking care of us all right.

LANCASTER:

Now there...

HAYEVY:

There wasn't much, there wasn't much food you know, but a everything was going half a pound per a person, and then quarter pound, and then [laughs] you get only one eight a pound and that was for everybody. I remember, I, they used to send me to go in line you know about two o'clock in the morning you get in line to buy a [?] of bread, get bread for the whole place you know. So I used to go and wait until morning...

LANCASTER:

Now this...

HAYEVY:

But that was for everybody no not only for kids it was for all the Russians, they didn't have much.

LANCASTER:

Your sister, you lived here with your sister. Now did you live with anybody else when you were living in Russia?

HAYEVY:

There was other people you know, no not from our place you know. They were from other villages you know, but me and my sister was, just me and my sister. But there was other people so they all the same.

LANCASTER:

Living in, in one house?

HAYEVY:

No that was big, that was big, that was, that was new, that was brand new summer home. I don't know they stuck us in there and a they used to call, well, that, that used to belong to some rich, rich men you know. Was big garden you know in the back, so it was alright, no there was quite a few rooms...

LANCASTER:

Ok.

HAYEVY:

...there was, there was quite a few because that was like summer home for like rich people, you know...

LANCASTER:

Right, where was your mother during this time? Your mother?

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

While you were in...

HAYEVY:

She was in Kiev see, she was left behind in Kiev a lot of them you know, so they work over there, but when war was over, you know, she went back home. But she didn't know where we was.

LANCASTER:

How did, how did you get separated from your mother?

HAYEVY:

When we got, when we got, when we got back from Russia to our country and we have to stop in one city. We couldn't go any further because the way we was supposed to go there was already Revolution. The Ukrainian [foot poles?], you know for that part of the country, you see, so we couldn't go any further and we have to stay in that town. But when Ukrainian they lost, Poles took over and there was some Polish people, you know, going home from too, you know. One guy was arrested by Ukrainians and he was sent to that town where I, where we was. He was in jail there and, and, when they, when the Poles come and they let the, these, all prisoners go, and they, and we stay near the station, railroad station so they all, everybody was going to the station and get train and go, and go more like west, ah well more north. So the one man was from our village, you know, and I was watching them you know and he see me and he knew me, you know. And when he got home you know and he told my mother that he see me in that town, so my mother come and get us.

LANCASTER:

And where, what town was it that you were in? When she, she was in Kiev?

HAYEVY:

What time?

LANCASTER:

What town?

HAYEVY:

Oh, what town.

LANCASTER:

What town were you in when she found you?

HAYEVY:

[Zolochev ?]

LANCASTER:

And where was she at that time?

HAYEVY:

She was in, in our village.

LANCASTER:

Oh, she was back home in your village?

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

Okay.

HAYEVY:

So.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell me how your mother got separated from you?

HAYEVY:

Well I was telling you when we got, when all these DP's, you know, got to Kiev they separate Polish people out, the Ukrainians kids one place and other, older people another place. So the other people they got jobs you know and they work. And kids was taken care of a different way, see? I think [laughs] they did pretty good job with that.

LANCASTER:

What sort of things would you do, after you were separated? Your mother would, she was brought somewhere and she would work?

HAYEVY:

She work, yeah she said she work, was working for some Polish people, you know, taking care of their house, you know. And a, we went like other kids to a stay together, but we was taken care of all right.

LANCASTER:

Who took care of you?

HAYEVY:

Who?

LANCASTER:

You and the other children who were separated.

HAYEVY:

No, all children was together, you know, and the government, or maybe, or what, I don't know who took care of us, we wasn't interested in that. As long as we had place to live. And you know, and they took care of us, we had something to eat. And a they took care of us very nicely, the Russians, you know. We had nurse in the house and big boss, you know, big boss rich lady. She was, she was, there must be committee or something, I really don't know, but I know that lady get all kids one time and she, she took her [sic, us] over to her house, you know, and it was beautiful you know, rich people. So she, I remember she played piano for us. So that means they was taking, I mean they was thinking of you, you know, that you weren't any different that they are, so that's that.

LANCASTER:

Can you talk about any other stories, like the piano story? Of things that happened while you were staying there at the...

HAYEVY:

Oh, that was in her house, where we're staying there's, so what we do, we go to school and then later when we don't go to school. So we go to town and go fishing some time, eh, always was something.

SIGRIST:

You might ask Mr. Hayevy about being reunited with his mother and how that affected him.

HAYEVY:

Well, she come, she come to that town where we was. And a, and there was still other people too was waiting, you know, to go, so she get us and a "hello mama" and you know she remember us, we remember her, we get train and went to back home. But that was already not so much of a life. We didn't have anything.

LANCASTER:

How did you feel when you saw your mother?

HAYEVY:

How did I feel? Well you know, I think, I think I was crying.

LANCASTER:

And you were with your older sister, also?

HAYEVY:

Well, my sister was a little stronger you know. So, my sister was good and we lived together when my mother left for a this country in 1921, so we lived together. I got, I worked a little bit on the railroad, a little bit in the lumberyard so I was making a little money and we was making living. And then 1923 we got over here.

LANCASTER:

Can you, um, can you go back and talk about the war and when it started when you were back home before you went to Russia?

HAYEVY:

Yeah. Yeah, I remember very good when that war started. When that war started and, and our place, and our village and that little town, and we had station railway, north or west you know. And to the all-Russian border and Austrian was only ten kilometers, see? So we was expecting that Russian going to come from north that way. And they did but just patrols, you know, the, the, the Cossacks on horses. They come, but they met Austrian, like a, like National Guard, you know. They was, they was, they was Ukraine people, you know. They used horses, too. They, they was a like National Guard, you know, because army wasn't, army wasn't no more in, in our place, you know. Before that maybe couple weeks there was, there was full of Austrian Army. All different kind, types, cavalry, you have a lot of cavalry, you know. And, and about two weeks later these Cossacks came from north, come to the station. But before they got to the station, you know, they met. There was brewery, you know, behind the station. And, and these, these National Guardsmen, you know, they had sniper. They got some sniper on the tree, you know. And, and a on the ground and they, and they kill one, that Cossack, that Russian [microphone disturbance] officer. I don't know, whatever he was, lieutenant, you know. They kill one and, and, and wounded two of them. See, that was, that was on the other side of, but still some Cossacks, they came to the station. And they run on horses to the, there was a bridge not far away from station. So they want, they want to check bridge, I don't know. But anyway, and my mother at that time, she was out in the field, you know, with the horses, with the horse, you know. And she come home. She brought some stuff on the, on the wagon, you know, to the barn. And, and said, she see these Cossacks was riding, you know. And when she see that, when she say that I was, you know, I was nosey all the time, see? I start to run back to the station to see them. And I see them was going, two guys was going on their horses to the bridge and two National Guardsmen was running away from station, and, and, and one grab me by the hand. "Run because there's Russians," you know. So I have to run back to the village and then we start to go, like south, the whole village evacuate, you know?

SIGRIST:

Mr. Hayevy we've got to just pause a minute so I can put another tape in. So just hold that, just hold that for a minute and we're gonna end with tape one. END OF SIDE B, TAPE 1 BEGIN SIDE A, TAPE 2

SIGRIST:

All right, we're now beginning tape two with William Hayvey, who came from Ukraine in 1923. When you were eighteen. And, it's March 18 th , and Mr. Hayvey's son is in the room with us. And Lauren Lancaster is leading the interview. And, Lauren, why don't we pick up with Mr. Hayvey right where we left off.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Go ahead and finish talking, you were, you were, you said you were starting to move south.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, Yeah, we were running. Yeah, Yeah, we left, well everybody left village and was running and there was Greek, you know. And then, everywhere, but everybody was running that way. And we wind up in town see. You know, instead, well, we can go to the river, but we, like, get, go back to the road and get into, into the town. And, and then they brought that killed Russian, you know, that Cossack. They brought him on, on, on the wagon, you know? To the, to town near, near Polish church. And two wounded soldiers, two wounded Cossacks, but that one was killed, you know. So, and, so everybody look around at, at the wagon, they wanna see them Russians, you know? We nev-, we never called them Russians. We called them Moskaly, because they, they was [ph] Moskalian, you know, not, not Russian. Long time ago, so, so, and I wanted, and I wanna see that, you know, but I wasn't that big, you know? So I grab on the side to the wagon, you know? It was leather. And I wanna, I want to stick my head in, you know, and see that guy. So I did. With that, with his five, these guards you know, they're government guards. So, he just, he just, see what I was looking at, what I was doing, and grabbed me and smacked me on the face, you know. So, but I see the guy, anyways, see? So, and Russians, they call that they wanna, that killed one. You know? That they wanted, they wanted that killed man back, because he was from some kind of big people, you know, in Russia. So they, they sent him. They sent him to that place there. And the other guys they come and pick him up and took him to Russia. And then, after, we was, one night we slept on a field some place. On the other side of town. And the next day we went back to village. And next day, it was nothing. Russians didn't come in. This Cossacks, they went back. They lost, you know. And, and people see there's nothing so they went back. And about two weeks later, Russian army didn't come from the North, they come from the east. You know, and people again, there's nowhere to run, you know? So that's when I chased my one horse out, and that horse got killed. But, people was, they was hiding in there, like in the foxholes, you know? But, but Russian come in that time, and they already stay until, until retreat, until next year, that was 1942. So, when Russian was, they were all right, army, we had, our village was next to the main highway you know. It's a dirt road, what they call, you know, main, main highway like. And through the city, and was going more, more south. So, so they, a lot of them, they used to walk, they did walk. And a lot of them, they, they was going, they was going by train. You know? So every time they go, we see the train g-, the train coming, you know, with, full of soldiers, Russian soldiers. Kids was running to the, the train, you know. What, and the soldier was throwing sugar, a lump of sugar, and candy for the kids. So we used like that. And, and these guys they work, like, like they got to the village and it was already late, so they was, they was, they want to stay for the night there. So they was doing cooking. They cook good, buckwheat, [ph] kasha, they call it, you know, with a lot of fat in it, you know. And, whatever they didn't finish eating, they'd give to the kids, you know? Kids used to go over and they had left over, a lot, so they was giving you a lot, a lot of stuff, so they was all right. So everybody like it.

LANCASTER:

Can you, you said, I'm sorry, you said it was Kasha it was called?

HAYEVY:

Yeah, that, how, how...

SIGRIST:

Buckwheat, yeah, Kasha is...

HAYEVY:

As, as a Jewish lady, what Kasha is, [Laughs]

SIGRIST:

A lot of people who lived in that part of the world ate Kasha.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

I mean it was a staple of their diet, yeah.

HAYEVY:

So, they, they, soldiers, soldiers used to eat Kasha the most, and Borscht, you heard about Borscht?

SIGRIST:

Explain what Borscht is.

HAYEVY:

Well that, like soup made beets, red beets. And then they throw their cabbage, you know, fresh cabbage. And that was, they, they make Borscht; they sell it in a bottles in a supermarket, Borscht.

LANCASTER:

Eh-hm.

HAYEVY:

But Jewish people, they know. They tell you, you know. So, that was, that was their meals. They say, Borscht and Kasha, [not understood]. The Borscht and that Kasha that was their meals. So, it wasn't like, like, army, like American Army. We was, we was thrown away. Look what I spent. I spent almost four and a half years. I-I know, you know. We was getting it when we got, when I got to the army, 1941. So we had, we, we had good, good food you know, garrison food. A lot of southern fried chicken, you know, a lot of stuff. I started to gain weight there, see. And if you didn't eat everything, if you ate too much, if you, something didn't finish eat, there was still a whole lot, you'd throw it in the garbage. See, it was thrown away, a lot of stuff.

LANCASTER:

You were telling us about the soldiers would share the food with you, if they had leftovers.

HAYEVY:

What the food?

LANCASTER:

The Russian soldiers.

HAYEVY:

Oh, the Russian, yeah, yeah. That was given to kids. You, you go, they was just like you all. They was nice, friendly. But a lot of them, they spoke our language, you know. Because they was, they was from, from a region they call Volin, that was the biggest part of Ukraine, was under the Russia. So, so that was all right. Like, on a station, you know, the radio station, they had a lot of big warehouse supplies, flowery, you know, all different things, you know, so. They was giving to the people. You, you went over there, you get yourself back, a hundred pound flower. They give it to you.

LANCASTER:

Can you talk about as, how things changed when the Russians were retreating? You said things were very different. That they were nice while the Russians were there.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, well there was, they was nice to civilian people. But they was chasing Austrians.

LANCASTER:

But how did things change when the Russians were leaving?

HAYEVY:

Well, when Russians was leaving and German, German was doing advance, you know, cause, they, they help, well, they went against Russia. So they was fire on a town, they town, that we went to school and church. It was maybe, oh geez, maybe two thirds was burned up. See there was, artillery. Artillery was firing, you know, and right, there was, there wasn't much, we had something in our village, you know. Some, some shells just, just was going over the, over the village, you know. By then the people was running all over.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell us about events that happened leading up to you getting separated from your mother? Like the events that happened before that? Before you, you got separated from your mother and went to live in Russia.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, well like in here, see, they this, you know, old people jobs, so they told them, they "You work, and your kids, we're gonna take care of your kids."

LANCASTER:

All right, what happened before that? Between when, you know, the German started advancing...

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...and then you got separated from your mother. What happened in between there?

HAYEVY:

When, when German was advancing, when they came to our place, we was already far away from our place, see. From town to town you know. And they might not here.

LANCASTER:

And that's when you got separated?

HAYEVY:

That's where everybody got separated. Polish people out all together. And, and the Russians, they had something to Ukrainians, because they said, "Well, that's part of Russia." So, that was it.

LANCASTER:

No-

HAYEVY:

So all the people work and like my mother, she, when, when, when war was over, she went back. They had different, I don't know how they, what kind, how they, we, we, we, we have to go over all Austrian present, the one that was in the present you know? And that train, that was regular, regular train, you know. And you get on [not understood] and go. There's nobody bothering us.

SIGRIST:

I think, Lauren, because Mr. Hayvey's lunch it being prepared upstairs, I think maybe we should begin him on his way to America. Although I'm sure there's a lot more in here that we could explore, but I think that, dinner's going to be on... [laughs]

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

...in a little while, so we should probably get my Hayevy to America. So you might want to skip to that part of the interview.

LANCASTER:

Okay.

SIGRIST:

Unless, is there one more question you'd like to ask along this line, these lines or?

LANCASTER:

No, we can, we can start moving. Well then, can you, can you tell us about, after, your, your mother had already been in America...

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...since she went in 1921.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

And then you went in 1923...

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...to meet her with your sister.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

Can you, can you tell us about traveling to the port?

HAYEVY:

My mother, see those days, to come to this country, you have to have somebody in this country. Like my mother had a cousin here, you know, in Jersey City. So, he get her to this country, and when I, when my mother got there, so they start to work on us, to get us. So they sent us papers and we have to wait for that number. You know, it took about two years. And, we got to this country.

LANCASTER:

Okay, what did you have to do to get ready to leave? To get ready to prepare?

HAYEVY:

Well, we have to go, with papers, you know, we have to go to county town. We have to go to [not understood] to, with all different papers, you know. But, everything was going all right.

LANCASTER:

Did you want to come to America?

HAYEVY:

Do I? Did I want to? [Laughs] Well I would go any place. Yeah, I wanna, I wanna go, I know. I know a lot of people from my town, they was in this country. My uncle, one of my uncles was here twice. And now they're all in col-, one got still there, [ph] Malanka's father, you know. He was in Columbus, Ohio. That's where she was born, you know. So, he was, he was here. A lot, a lot of people, a lot of people from, from that, from that place where I come from, you know? A lot of people, villagers, they went to America, it was easy to come before the war, you know. It was easy, as long as you had, could buy ticket, and you go, see. So, so some of them people they went over here. They made some money, you know, maybe they was here a year or two. They went back and buy a piece of land. And they need some, some more money, which they couldn't get any place else. They come back here again. They work here another, sometime, whatever. And they went back and they fixed their barn. That's how they were doing, see? And some people, they come here to stay. Like, they, they had put off going there to stay. So we didn't have nothing to do over there no more. So, I come here to stay.

LANCASTER:

What did you know about America?

HAYEVY:

What I knew about America?

LANCASTER:

What did you think about it?

HAYEVY:

Well, what I heard... you know, from those people that were here already, you know they come back there, I, I-I heard a whole lot about America. But some people, that they think different. I, I was, I was young, very young, I work on the railroads, you know, on the tracks. So, so for me, it was you have to work, say, but some people, over there, they think, they thought, you know that, when you go to America, and you gonna get money and gaudery and all this. See, some of them, they was thinking this way. But, a lot of people was different. So because when I got here, you know, I, I got here in about Thursday. And Monday I went to work.

LANCASTER:

Okay, what sort of things, did you take with you, to, when you came to America? Belonging that you had. Did you bring anything with you on the boat?

HAYEVY:

No, no, just clothing, that's all. One suit, it was [not understood]. Didn't need anything.

LANCASTER:

Can you describe what it was like saying goodbye? I mean, did you have people in, you know, in Ukraine, that you were saying, that you had to say goodbye to?

HAYEVY:

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of people, they come to the, to the station, you know to see me on. And, I know, one guy come to see, come to the station, see, and to see what's, oh a lot of people coming, you know. And, that guy, wind up in Canada in 1927. Canada was getting a lot of immigrants from Europe, you know, from Eastern Europe. To work on the farms, in, so. I-I went, I went, my uncle went that time. He went to Alberta, you know, on, on the farm. And that guy, that one guy that, I went to see him. And I, and he said he remembered me. That he was at the station. I knew he was. But, but, but I want to, and he told me it was it was drizzling, so I know it was drizzling, you know. So when he said that [Laughs] I was sure that he was there. He died already, they die in Alberta. There's a lot of farms. You get, long time ago in Alberta. Anybody went over there, the government give you one farm, a hundred and fifty acres, wooden farm, wooden place. And you want to clean out that, it's yours, ten dollars, cost you. See, so, if you went over there and you clean up a little bit and make some kind shelter, that you could, you could stay there, so they knew that you gonna do something. But the ones that don't do anything, you know, they give you your money back, ten dollars, and get out. A lot of them they get these farms and they made work pretty good. Ukraine got big name in Alberta. You know, that they build up farms over there. They clean out, see. See, even queen from, from England, you know give them credit.

LANCASTER:

Okay, can we, can you tell me what port that you left from? The name of the port that..?

HAYEVY:

I, by train I went to Danzig. That used to be [not understood], but that's a Polish port, Danzig. From Danzig we got [sigh] to Bremen I believe, to Germany. And from there we got another boat, and we went to London. In London we got train and got by train to Southampton, England. In Southampton we got big boat, and go to stop in Cherbourg, France pick up some costumers there and went to New York. Five days it took us. That was, that was the biggest shop they, they had that time, Leviathan. That was German ship, you know, a ship come to America, before America went to war, you know. And, and, and, and when they went to war one day, so Germany, so they America kept the ship here. They never let that ship go no more. I don't know what the name of that ship was, but now they, they call it Leviathan.

SIGRIST:

It was the Imperator in, when it was Germany. It was the Imperator, and they changed it to the Leviathan.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Yeah. It's a great ship story.

HAYEVY:

That's, that was big ship. That was nice there, it was good ship. That ship didn't stop in, in Ellis Island. Maybe it was too big, I don't know. It, it went through United States pier, some place, on Forty-Fourth Street, or something there. That's where they was parking, there. Cause I know, across the street I see Lipton Tea, was sign blinking. So I know how to read English. I used to say, Lipton Tee-ah.

LANCASTER:

Can you talk about what the accommodations were like on the ship?

HAYEVY:

On the ship, on the ship was good. So what, they give you good to eat, you had good sleep. I didn't get sick. I ate candy, said I eat candy you might throw up, you know, didn't bother me.

LANCASTER:

Can you describe the food that you ate, when you were on the ship?

HAYEVY:

What?

LANCASTER:

The food.

HAYEVY:

Oh food.

LANCASTER:

The food that you ate on the ship.

HAYEVY:

Food, food was first class, everything. I never see food like that in my, in my country. Oh, you had, you had food, you know. It was in American style. So we got here and stay a night on the ship and the next day, tugboat pick us up and took us over to Ellis Island. So, spend there all day, until maybe, I don't know 10:00 at night, maybe late. Once we all were there they examine you, they check on you, everything. If anything was wrong, you know, they could turn you back.

LANCASTER:

Can you describe seeing land for the first time?

HAYEVY:

What?

LANCASTER:

When you were on the ship.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

And you came into, into New York, can you describe how you felt when you saw land for the first time?

HAYEVY:

Over here?

LANCASTER:

Yeah, over here.

HAYEVY:

Oh, from Ellis Island?

LANCASTER:

Right. When you were on the boat and you came in and you...

HAYEVY:

Well, when I come to New York, see, boat took us over to the, to the Ellis Island. And from Ellis Island they let you go to New York, to the ground, to the, you know, they, they let you go. When you finish, when they finish with you, and you was okay, so, they took you over on a ferry boat to that federal building there, in, well you from Jersey City, you know the, on the corner. There was, I forgot, anyway. But anyway they took you over there and go any place you wanna. So we had, we had interpreter, Polish guy, and it was already late. And he took us over to, to Polish nun's place. And we stayed there over night. We had a upper and stayed that night. Next day my mother come and pick me up.

LANCASTER:

What was it like to see your mother, once again for, when you hadn't seen her for many years?

HAYEVY:

Ehhh, I don't know. It wasn't so many years. It was only three, two years, whatever, three. When you go through something like this, you know, [laughs], so many years, or, or, or whatever, you know, you don't think. You think, what do you see, what do you got, you know? That you, that you, whatever, whatever you see, you know, and you could have it, you know, it's yours. So, next day, they, they pick us up and my mother was married second time. So the stepfather, he work on the railroad. Most, all immigrants, they work on the, on the, well on the, any railroad, you know. They work on the [not understood] railroad, where they was fixing boxcars, you know? Railroad? So I got, I got job there, plain laborer, forty cents and hour. END OF SIDE A, TAPE 2 BEGIN SIDE B, TAPE 2

SIGRIST:

Before we progress too far, cause this is very interesting about the railroad, let's make sure we're finished with the ship and with Ellis Island. It might be a good time to ask just a simple broad question, like, is there anything else you remember about being on the ship? And, he may or may now, Mr. Hayevy may say something and then, is there anything else that you remember about being on Ellis Island. And then when that's done, then we can segway into getting the job, because I think this is very interesting. Okay?

LANCASTER:

Okay, well, is there anything that, anything else that you remember about being on the ship?

HAYEVY:

On the ship? Everything was okay. But, Ellis Island, I know you went through all different kind of physicals, you know? Examination, clean up and everything, you know. And that took long time. Cause there was lot of people. There was so many people there, and, from all different places. So, but, but, took time, you know? There's nothing wrong with you physically and everything okay. And the papers and everything, and, and that's about all. That's about all I-I remember, you know? I didn't have no problem, I-I was healthy, you know. But if you had something in your eye, your know, you could be turned back, see. See it happen, that's all family was coming, and one child couldn't go. There was something wrong, you know?

LANCASTER:

Eh-hm.

HAYEVY:

Child go back, see.

LANCASTER:

Now what about, your sister was with you during this time, right?

HAYEVY:

She went through the same thing.

LANCASTER:

How did, how did she feel about, about Ellis Island? Did she have any problems at all?

HAYEVY:

She didn't have no problem. As long as you're healthy, you know. Takes time to go through everything, you know. You healthy, wasn't much problem.

LANCASTER:

Okay, well, so then, then you, your mother met you.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

And, how did you get to, you went to Jersey City?

HAYEVY:

Oh, to Jersey City. We went, we walked from the place, from that place that the nun's place. We walked to Courtland Street to ... to Courtland Street, yeah. Get ferryboat was going that, that time. To, to, was going to Jersey City to Pennsylvania ... Well, what the hell they got now there? They got, they got...

SIGRIST:

To exchange place? Did the boats go...

HAYEVY:

N-N-N-Not exchange place

SIGRIST:

Not exchange place.

HAYEVY:

No, no. To, the ferry was ... Montgomery Street, Montgomery, they ferry was coming to Montgomery Street. Now they have buildings there. So, Did that, and a trolley car. And my mother lived on West Side Avenue. Go on trolley car to West Side Avenue. And that's it. I was home. [not understood]

LANCASTER:

Who did you live with in Jersey City?

HAYEVY:

Who? In my, in my aunt's home.

LANCASTER:

Your aunts home?

HAYEVY:

Yeah. For a while.

LANCASTER:

Was, did anybody, was, it was just your sister, and your mother, and your aunt? Did anybody else live there?

HAYEVY:

Oh, my aunts and her son. Oh there was a couple people live there. Every house was occupied by many people.

LANCASTER:

Now at this point you, you mention that you knew English. Or you knew it, some English.

HAYEVY:

English? Well, I could, I-I could, I could show how I wri-write English, like I said. You know? I knew that and alphabet. See because Ukraine Alphabet is different, see? But I knew because they taught us Polish. So you have to know Polish, Latin alphabet. So for me, was to catch up, you know. Look in the paper, you know? I think, well I, I listen how people talk. English was no good. Well, well, I couldn't speak English well, like any, like any immigrant. But where I work, you know, there was all Ukraine people, Polish people, some Italian people, you know, doing their, their job. And I, so you don't have to speak English over there. Big foreman was Ukraine, so he was very good. And, and boss was Irishman, so he never, he never bother anybody. When he go to inspect the tracks he always whistle, you know, so everybody knew he was coming. [Laughs] So, so he never bothered anybody. So that's why he whistle and he's coming, see? And my job, well, plain labor was easy. I work there for almost two years, then I quite. I went on various jobs. Well, get fifty cents an hour. I went in painting line, I was house painter. After that, I learned how to paint so I was doing that all my lifetime. I was mostly self employed.

LANCASTER:

As a house painter?

HAYEVY:

House painter. Paperhanger, just like Hitler. Hitler was paperhanger.

LANCASTER:

So did you, did you ever go to knight classes to learn English or did you just learn it, teach yourself?

HAYEVY:

I went, I try night school for maybe a month or two. And I couldn't learn anything, I don't know. It just didn't work for me and I quit. And little by little, you know, you're catching up.

LANCASTER:

What kind of, did your sister work during this time?

HAYEVY:

My sis...

LANCASTER:

And your mother?

HAYEVY:

Yeah. She got job to work in New York, take care of a house. Always, always young ladies, they came from the other side, Jewish people, you know, was going after them, to get them as a maid, you know? To work, because they knew, that they clean, you know? So she got, she got one of these jobs.

LANCASTER:

Did she live with them?

HAYEVY:

And, and, and they, you know, they like, they was in bus-, they had dress business, you know? Business. So my sister always get new dress and everything. They like her, you know? Because she was, but when they come, where, where we used to live, you know, with my mother. When she come to see us, that lady, that Jewish lady, to see where we live, you know? And, and along the way she look if it's clean, everything in the house, especially in the stove. And my mother used to keep stove nice and clean, you know. See, she looks, the stove clean? The way my sister got job. Yeah, oh, a lot of these young ladies, they get, they get these jobs, you know. She got that job until she got married.

SIGRIST:

We're gonna pause just for a...[Break in tape] Again.

LANCASTER:

Okay.

HAYEVY:

Alright.

LANCASTER:

You were talking about your sister getting the job.

HAYEVY:

Yeah, yeah. That was finished.

LANCASTER:

Okay. What did your mother do during this time?

HAYEVY:

Oh, my mother, well, my, my stepfather, you know, there was three children, you know. And one, still have to take care of her. So she, but then she got job, you know, in the laundry. Sure, she worked because, you know, the, in the railroad they didn't make much. And if you had little kids you had something [not understood]. So, so you need money. So my mother start to work and to keep the house going, you know?

LANCASTER:

Now, you said, the k-, you had k-, she had kids?

HAYEVY:

Her...

LANCASTER:

Her sisters?

HAYEVY:

Her, her sec-second husband...

LANCASTER:

Her sec...

HAYEVY:

...had three kids, you know?

LANCASTER:

Oh, okay. Her second. What was..?

HAYEVY:

So, but my, my mother didn't have no more children.

LANCASTER:

Okay, what was her, your, her husbands name?

HAYEVY:

Andrew.

LANCASTER:

And his last name?

HAYEVY:

He's Ukrainian.

LANCASTER:

His last, his last name. Andrew..?

HAYEVY:

Oh, Rubinowicz.

LANCASTER:

Do, can you spell that?

HAYEVY:

Rubinowicz?

SIGRIST:

Rubinowicz. R-A-B-I-N...do you want to write it? Would that help? Here, you can just use the blank page. Mr. Hayvey is spelling out Mr. Rabinowitz's name.

LANCASTER:

Okay, R-U-B-I-N-O-W-I-C-Z.

SIGRIST:

Thank you.

LANCASTER:

Thank you.

HAYEVY:

So...

LANCASTER:

So...

HAYEVY:

So...

LANCASTER:

Go ahead.

HAYEVY:

So that my writing finished third grade, grammar school. [Laughs]

SIGRIST:

You did a good job with Rubinowicz. It's fine.

HAYEVY:

So what?

LANCASTER:

So, how, when, when did your mother get remarried?

HAYEVY:

My, when she got married? When she got here, so right away there was, you know, there was a lot of friends from, from our village, you know? Our cousin and other people so right away they, you know, they make her married to him, get married to that guy. He need, he need help, you know, children.

LANCASTER:

Eh-hm.

HAYEVY:

And, he need, he need help, you know children. So, that's how she got married. I don't know exactly how it was going, you know, but [laughs] I wasn't around.

LANCASTER:

Did you like him? Did you, how did you..?

HAYEVY:

No, I didn't like him. He was, he was, he was alcoholic and he was rough. I didn't like him, but, well, what are you gonna do? I stayed with them for a while and then, and then he didn't, he died. This right where people work, that used to get TV, you know, they, was done on TV. He died in 1927 I believe. Then we live together with his children and my mother and me.

LANCASTER:

How about, how old were the children?

HAYEVY:

One girl was finished grammar, grammar school so she got working papers, she work. See, those days, when you finish grammar school, you know, you get working paper where you could work anyplace. And one was, one was, was going to school, I don't know what grade. And one still was baby, you know. [Microphone disturbance]

SIGRIST:

Oh, let's fix the microphone. Lauren is putting the microphone back on Mr. Hayevy.

HAYEVY:

So, that's that.

LANCASTER:

Did, did, were you close to the children? They...

HAYEVY:

Yeah. They was nice. It was all right. So then I, well, I quit the railroad and...

LANCASTER:

Before you go on with that, can you describe exactly what you did on the railroad?

HAYEVY:

Picking up scrap, you know. And broken wood, woods on pile, and burn it. You really see, they fixed boxcars, they, there's a lot of scrap. You know, metal scrap and a lot, at that time, there was boxcar, wooden boxcar, you know. That, that was, that was job, anything.

LANCASTER:

Okay. And then you went into business for yourself as a painter?

HAYEVY:

No. I got job in a, in grocery [not understood] big [not understood]. And there was one painter. He was Ukrainian. He was, if something trouble, if need to clean up, so he was, that was his job, you know. To get people and do it something up. So, he get me job there. And I work with him for a while. Oh, maybe three years. And then, and then on and off. And then little by little I start to pick up job on my own, you know. I learn how to do it. And, I went pretty good at this business. And, then I went, you know, during depression, it wasn't so, you know, it was pretty rough. Paint rooms, apartment, four room apartment, we was getting forty-five dollars. [Laughs] And, they, they paint one room over here, small room, they pay hundred and fifty dollars.

LANCASTER:

Today?

HAYEVY:

Yeah. Yeah, they just, one room. But, then I was called to the army, 1941 in March, St. Patrick's Day. Three days in Fort Dix and they ship us to South Carolina Fort Dickson. So I spent there until, until August '45. So, in states and overseas.

LANCASTER:

Can you tell me, when did you meet your wife?

HAYEVY:

When I meet my wife? Oh, I knew her for a long time when I was civilian, you know. We used to go to the same church, you know. It wasn't, it wasn't like today you know. It wasn't like you see on television, you know. [Laughs] She sand in choir, you know, church choir. And, so we knew, other boys you know, used to go out.

LANCASTER:

Did you get married before or after you were in army?

HAYEVY:

No, after I came back. I was gonna get married before I went but I got low number. And we register, see, when we register, I don't know, that was '40, 1940, or '39. I think, I think '40. From eighteen up to thirty-six you register. So, and then you get, I got low number so I was called. In March, see, I was already over thirty-six when I went to army. But I register, I wasn't thirty-six yet, see. If you, if you register today. You wasn't thirty-six, and tomorrow you thirty-six, you in army. That's how it was. Oh, a lot of, a lot of older guys. They used to take a lot of people. So, I was with infantry, machine gunner. And, I got, my knee started to bother me on desert in Arizona. And I wind up in hospital. And my whole outfit went east. It was already 194-40, see. 1944, and they, they just went to, to, to England. And I was in hospital; I couldn't go with them no more. So they send me to, replacement center, replacement somewhere in San Bernardino, California. I was there about maybe ten days, and they stick me with combat engineers. So, within the years, I went o-, to Pacific.

LANCASTER:

So then when you got back from the war...

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

...you, you married your wife?

HAYEVY:

I, when I got back, I live with my sister for a little bit. And I got back in August. In September I got married. [Laughs] So, I was already older guy. Well, if I didn't get married at that time, I figure I wouldn't get married, you know. If I, If I didn't get married at that time when I wanna, I probably wouldn't be married. Well, anyway, that's the way it was. So, I see a little action in South Pacific. So that's it.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Can you, and then you had your children. How many children did you have?

HAYEVY:

Two boys, two sons.

SIGRIST:

I would actually like to know the name of Mr. Hayevy's wife, and her maiden name, and their children's name.

HAYEVY:

My wife name Mary, Dmytrys.

SIGRIST:

Here, can you spell the maiden name for us? [Short Pause] Mr. Hayevy is spelling out [clears throat] his wife's maiden name.

HAYEVY:

Oh.

LANCASTER:

Her first name was Mary.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

LANCASTER:

And then her last name is D-M-...

HAYEVY:

Dmy-

LANCASTER:

Y-T-R-Y-S.

HAYEVY:

Dmytrys.

LANCASTER:

Dmytrys. Okay, and the names of your children?

HAYEVY:

Who? Wha? Who?

LANCASTER:

Your children, what were their names?

HAYEVY:

My children?

LANCASTER:

Eh-hm.

HAYEVY:

This one is Bill. And younger one is Tommy. And there is a picture of them over there.

SIGRIST:

How about we go about, and, and go to the final questions? We're almost, actually, out of time...

LANCASTER:

Right, yeah.

SIGRIST:

...on the second tape.

LANCASTER:

Okay, how do you think of yourself in terms of nationality?

HAYEVY:

Nationality? Well, I'm American citizen, but nationality, I'm Ukrainian. I never, you know, I never wanna I'm not Ukraine no more. American, American politicians tell you, if you don't respect your own nationality, then you no good American citizen. That's what they tell you. So, I'm, I'm in the Ukraine nationality. I'm Ukrainian. We have a, we have a good culture and hard working people.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Can you tell me, how do you think your life would have been different, had you not come to America?

HAYEVY:

[Laughs] God knows. I'd be, I-I run away from Polish army. I was too young, yet to Polish army and that's how they let me go. If I was in age that day, they would draft me at nineteen, they would draft you when you twenty-one. And I was only eighteen, you know. So, then they wouldn't let me go. So, and if they kept, kept me three years in the army, so the war, the way it was going, so I never would be here.

LANCASTER:

Okay. Can you offer any advice, to those who might listen to this interview many years from now?

HAYEVY:

No, I don't know. What kind of advice?

LANCASTER:

Just, any kind of advice. Advice for living.

HAYEVY:

The ones that come in here, to those people that want to come to this country.

LANCASTER:

To anyone. Anyone who, people in this country who might listen to this interview, say a hundred years from now. I mean someone your age, obviously knows a thing or two [laughs] about how to live a long life.

HAYEVY:

[sighs] I tell you these people, after second world war, you know, there, there was a lot of immigrants who came from Germany, ones that work in Germany, you know, who are the Polish people, Ukrainian, and others, you know. They, they come over here, you know, you know, it didn't cause them anything. And, but they was hard working people, you know. And they still are. When they got over here, and Truman would, took over. You know, he was president. And he ask, he ask all factory people, you know to give these people jobs. Because they came from hell, you know, from, from Hitler's country. So, so Truman spoke for them. When, when I come here, and nobody spoke for me [laughs], you know, I tried the best but I learn how to paint. And, I was all the time advancing, you know. I did good job for the people, you know. And they used to like my pe-, my jobs. And, I didn't have to put in the paper, who want help paint call me up. I didn't have to do that. I was getting my jobs through recommendation. I did job in new place, you like, your friends come, "Oh, who did that? Nice looking job." And I got customers. I was making that living, and thank god, you know, I said, "If I have to work on my knees, my, my boys have to go to, to college. And I, I did it. Because my father, he didn't know how to sign his name, see. So, I didn't learn hell of a lot. But, I was hardworking man, that's all. But my boys, thanks god, they, they, they graduate on math, you know, which is very good. And a grandson, his son, he's better yet then his father.

SIGRIST:

Your talking about your son Bill's son.

HAYEVY:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

He was just here.

HAYEVY:

Well, the younger, god knows.

SIGRIST:

Why don't you do the conclusion now.

LANCASTER:

Okay.

SIGRIST:

We have just about a minute left.

LANCASTER:

Well. That's a good place to end the interview. I want to thank you very much for taking the time for us to come out and speak with you about your immigration experience. This is Lauren Lancaster, a student intern from Rutgers University, signing off with William Hayevy, on March 18, 1999, for the Ellis Island Oral History Project.

SIGRIST:

Great. Thank you, both of you. You did a great job.

HAYEVY:

Well I hope...[Tape cuts off] END OF INTERVIEW