LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service and I am here today with Aimo Sulin, in West Rockport, Maine at his home. This is November 2, 1991. Mr. Sulin came from Finland in 1921 when he was three and one half years old. So, I;m very happy to be here and I want first to say that when you remember a story that you were told, rather than it being your own memory, you can just mention that. First, let's start by you telling me your birth date.

SULIN:

October 19, 1917.

LEVINE:

Okay. And what town were you born in?

SULIN:

Turkka, Finland.

LEVINE:

Can you spell that?

SULIN:

T-U-R-K-K-A, Turkka. At one time it was called Abo, A-B-O, but they changed it back to the original several years ago.

LEVINE:

Now, do you remember that town at all?

SULIN:

No, I don't remember. The only thing I remember, what my mother had told me. I was born at (Finnish quote) which would be Brickmaker's Street number ten, and uh, oh, it was so long ago. 'Cause, at that time we, that I was small, 'course the Finns and the Russians they were squabbling all the time. In fact, mother says that we spent eight weeks in the basement of the house because the fighting that was going on and I had an uncle that was shot on the doorstep. He was red-headed and that's all I know about him, (he laughs) and as far as my grandparents, I have no knowledge of them.

LEVINE:

Were your mother and father from the same town?

SULIN:

I don't know whether my father was born, or anything about it, but he left for America actually before I was born. She was carrying me when he left, and he came over here and found work in Fitchburg, Massachusetts and then he sent for us and that's why, it was a long time to get money enough together in them days I guess. We came on the S.S. Mauretania, which was a Cunard Line ship and I don't know where we got onto the ship but I do know that we came into Liverpool and went near a ship that was burning that blistered the paint. So we were stuck there for two weeks while they repainted it and so forth. And then with the Atlantic crossing, I could remember very little, you know, I can't remember anything happening until-- Well, I do remember landing in Ellis Island and being herded into the cattle pens.. (He laughs.) And, of course, there were, you know, immigrants from several different countries on that ship, you know, they had gathered. And while aboard the ship, my brother got sick. I didn't know whether he got diphtheria or what it was, I can't remember what my mother said it was. And just as soon as we landed there they just took him to the hospital. Mother didn't know what was going on because she couldn't speak any English or anything, you know. So, she was kind of lost. And the next thing I know they took me, so we spent eight weeks at Ellis Island. We were quarantined, see, and then when we finally got out of quarantine, 'cause we went, my father lived in Fitchberg, Massachusetts and the only thing I can remember is getting on the ferry boat in Ellis Island to come to the mainland, to come to Battery Park, I guess. We picked up the train and I can remember getting on the ferry boat and being a inquisitive type of a fellow, I guess, I uh, the companion way down into the engine room which was the old-time steam engine with the arms going up and down. Some sailor went down through and he didn't lock the gate and nobody noticed me. I got down, went Down the stairs and I was down there amongst the engines. Some guy picked me up and brought me back up and made sure I stayed. That is about the only thing I can remember. I do remember landing and getting on the shore, and getting on the train and then I think I fell asleep and didn't wake up until we were in Fitchberg, Massachusetts.

LEVINE:

Well, now who did you travel with?

SULIN:

My mother, my brother, and myself, just the three of us, you know. My brother was six years older than I was.

LEVINE:

And what was his name?

SULIN:

Mauno Albert, M-A-U-N-O Albert Sulin. He passed away in 1952, he had a cerebral hemorrhage. So far as I know, of that generation, I'm the only one living and except for my family, we have a daughter and a son. The daughter lives in Florida and the son, well he's due either today or tomorrow to come state-side. He's a captain of an ocean-going freighter. He's been to South, East Africa, what am I talking about, yeah, East Africa, south and east he's been to Durbin, Madagascar, and every place else. Like I say, he's due to come tomorrow, you know, sometimes this weekend or the first of the week. And he lives in the same town only he and his wife just bought a place about a year ago, over on Park Street, which goes and turns off on the corner down there.

LEVINE:

Well, let me ask you this. What was your mother's maiden name? What was her first name and maiden name?

SULIN:

Ah, his name was Hulda, H-U-L-D-A, middle name was Maria, M-A-R-I-A, and what her maiden name is can't remember and I have no record. I did have an old passport, but I don't know whether I still have it or not.

LEVINE:

What was your mother like? What kind of a woman was your mother?

SULIN:

Well, typical Finn. (He laughs.)

LEVINE:

What does that mean?

SULIN:

Well, you know, they, she was fairly strict, you know, uh, and they had the old country ideas, when I was in school and wanted to play baseball and sneak out. She was sure that I would get hurt or something like that, which playing football I did break an arm and I never heard the end of that (he laughs), you know.

LEVINE:

What other old country ideas do you remember your mother having?

SULIN:

Well, first they looked after their children, they made sure they knew where they were. If you didn't show home, back home on time you were grounded and that's about it. There were no other if, and, or buts. Yes, they, uh, but, see my mother and father were divorced when I was about five, I guess. We lived in Fitchberg, Massachusetts. Mother worked in a cotton mill there and then we moved out on the farm out in Vermont, out in Smokeshires, up in Gassetts, Vermont, which is a little jumping off place where there was a grocery store/post office all-in-one and a grain store. Then there was the country-side, you know, farming country. We lived half-way up the mountain, I guess.

LEVINE:

This is you, your mother and your brother?

SULIN:

Yeah, well, father went over there when we bought it, but then, while we were there they were divorced, because he wouldn't stay on the farm, he went back to the city, he, he, well, my brother lived with him after they were divorced for aa while. Then, uh, but he never had anything to do with me and I never had anything to do with him. So that's the way it went.

LEVINE:

Now, what did he do in Finland, your father, before he left? Do you know?

SULIN:

I haven't the slightest idea what he did. No.

LEVINE:

What was his first name?

SULIN:

Matti, M-A-T-T-I.

LEVINE:

Do you know why he left, for the U.S.?

SULIN:

Well, just like most of those countries, to find a better job, or find better living conditions, 'cause at that time, in the late 1800s and early 1900s, you know, Finland, Russia, they were always squabbling. You really weren't safe anywhere. So I think that they probably had friends over here that wrote back to them and told them of the living conditions and the jobs that were available and practically all of those Finns at that time, you know, they came to Massachusetts, you know, either to Fitchburg, or Maynard, or Ashburnham, one of those areas. And from there they gradually, uh, moved out, Maine, New Hampshire, all these other places. Most of, a lot of them became farmers.

LEVINE:

Do you know if your father was ever in the Army when he was over in Finland?

SULIN:

I don't think so, but I have no idea. I haven't got the slightest idea. In fact, I can't tell you where he was born or anything else. And I really don't know where my mother was born, but I think it was in the Turkka area.

LEVINE:

So there was active fighting before you left.

SULIN:

Oh yeah. There was always a rebellion of some kind going on. I don't have too much history. In fact, I've been reading that "Finn Fest", there. that's printed out in California, but that has a lot of news of Finland and what things were in that era.

LEVINE:

Well, now, finally your father saved up enough money and sent it to your mother for you and your brother to come?

SULIN:

That's right, to get our tickets to come.

LEVINE:

And then, do you remember, like, when you came into the New York harbor? Can you remember being on the ship?

SULIN:

Well, on the ship, no I really can't remember. I can remember being herded in, well, through the, between the benches, and from the dock to the building. I can remember going through there,

LEVINE:

The Great Hall at Ellis Island?

SULIN:

And 'course, that was just like herding cattle through there, I guess.

LEVINE:

Now, you were quarantined. What was, what did that mean?

SULIN:

Oh, we were quarantined, we were in the hospital. They took my brother first, and then they, I came down, they took me. That's why we were there for eight weeks, I guess.

LEVINE:

Now, was your mother with you in the hospital room?

SULIN:

No, she was cleared, that's why she was all lost, you know. She had a job, find out where we were, first of all, she couldn't even, they didn't even allow her to come see us, or anything else, you know. She thought that they had hauled us off.

LEVINE:

Oh my goodness, she must have been frantic.

SULIN:

Oh, I guess she was.

LEVINE:

So you and your brother were in a hospital room together when you were quarantined?

SULIN:

I don't know whether we were in the same hospital room or not, but he was taken into the hospital right off, when we landed, you know. They whisked him off just as soon as, uh, as we got ashore.

LEVINE:

Then how much longer was it before they took you off?

SULIN:

I really don't remember, 'cause I wasn't in there that long. I wasn't that bad off as he was. He had, it affected his hearing, I do know that, 'cause he had trouble from that, well he had it until he passed away, as far as I can recall.

LEVINE:

Did your mother ever discuss that with you? Ellis Island, afterwards?

SULIN:

Not really, not too much, just to say that, you know, it was pretty hard to make anybody understand because the only thing that she knew was Finnish, because at that time they didn't teach English in Finland, and, I guess there were other Finns there, but they were just as bad off as she was because they didn't know any English either. They finally picked up enough to say "no" and "yes", and they always said it in the wrong place. (He laughs.)

LEVINE:

Well, now, can you remember anything about those eight weeks that you were held there?

SULIN:

No, I can't remember, 'cause there was nothing that really, really--

LEVINE:

Well, you were very young.

SULIN:

Yeah, well, three and one half it's pretty hard to remember.

LEVINE:

I'm surprised you remember as much as you do.

SULIN:

I remember, you know, I can remember, easily from the time we lived in Fitchburg, Massachusetts, and the time we went on the farm in Vermont, and from there we moved, wait, we lived in New Hampshire for a while between Fitchburg and Vermont. We lived in West Peterboro, New Hampshire for a short time, mother worked in a mill there.

LEVINE:

Now, do you remember anything, do you remember seeing the Statue of Liberty?

SULIN:

I can't say that I did, 'cause, you know, I don't remember it, uh, probably saw it, without a doubt, but I just don't remember it.

LEVINE:

Do you remember when you got off and you took the train to Fitchburg? Do you remember anything about the United States that struck you as different?

SULIN:

No, because once we got on the train, mother said I fell asleep and I didn't wake up until we had to get off the train in Fitchburg. So that was lost somewhere.

LEVINE:

Well, now in Fitchburg, were there a lot of Finnish people there?

SULIN:

Oh, at that time there was a lot of Finnish people in Fitchberg> They had their own dance hall and everything there and they had co-op, grain stores, you know, fort the farmers and the co-op store and bakery and everything else. Oh yes, Fitchberg was a big area for Finns. There was an awful lot there and there still is, you know. Of course, a lot , most of them are second generation Finn. That's the problem here because I really don't know, I've been trying to rack my brain, if there's any Finns that were born in Finland, you know, there are second generation Finns, but they don't know anything about it. They don't even speak Finnish hardly. You get one or two words out of them in Finn, then that's English, and that bothers me, but--

LEVINE:

Did you learn to speak Finnish?

SULIN:

Oh yes, I, at home even till the time I got married, even afterwards, I always spoke Finnish with my mother 'cause she, her English was pretty bad, you know. It was broken, she could make you understand, yes, but at home it was Finnish all the time.

LEVINE:

Did your mother want to, did she want to retain the Finnish heritage, in other words to--

SULIN:

Oh yes, all the Finns did, you know. They would have their Finnish gatherings, dances, and picnics in the summertime and so forth. You know, they lived for this. They were the type of people, that visit the different families. They would go around and visit with all the people that they knew. They had their own little community.

LEVINE:

So they weren't as interested in becoming American and dropping the Finnish tradition--

SULIN:

Not my people, no, but there were an awful lot that did. There was an awful lot. I had, I have a lady that lived, well, she lives in New Jersey, they bought a farm here in Warren, and they built a log cabin down on the shore or the river and they come here and vacation in the summertime. She told me, she lived up in the upper peninsular, up there in Michigan or Minnesota, whatever it is. And he mother wouldn't even teach them any Finnish and wouldn't let them speak any Finnish at home. She says, "You're in America. You're going to be an American." Now, I think that this was kind of sad, and she thinks so herself. She doesn't think much of them. Every once in a while the different, the different Finnish words were for such.

LEVINE:

Do you think you yourself have, uh, have retained anything that kind of marks you as someone from Finland?

SULIN:

Well, my wife says I'm a stubborn Finn, (he laughs) so that must be part of it. So it doesn't make any difference, her ancestors were Polish, so there's nothing any worse than a dumb Pollack, so--(he laughs). But, of course, here mother came from Poland, and she passed away.

LEVINE:

Well, now what did your family do when they got to Fitchberg? What was your father doing there?

SULIN:

I think he worked in some type of a, whether it was a machine shop or what, I'm not sure. My mother went to work in the cotton mills, were big at that time, you know, in the early twenties. All those towns in Fitchberg, like Lowell, Fitchberg, Ashburnham, and all those places, they have cotton mills. And she went to work in those, she was spinning, I think. And then before we went to Vermont, I think we were, eight or nine months we spent in West Peterboro, New Hampshire, and that was a cotton mill there and then we went on--

LEVINE:

Now, what about your brother? Did he start right into school?

SULIN:

Oh yeah, yeah, he, uh, in fact, I don't remember just how it was, but, he, uh, started school before I did naturally, because he was six years older. And I started, I didn't start school till I was seven, I guess, in Vermont, 'cause it was-- We didn't have any school buses in them days, you know, and I think the little school down there by the bridge, down in Gassett. It was at least two miles from where we lived, if not more. And we had to walk, you know. And Vermont winters, there was a lot of snow, you know, so mother didn't get me in school till I was pretty near seven years old, I guess. Then, so there, I think the whole school had maybe twenty kids in it, in all the grades. The teacher had all the grades, you know. And, uh, I did pick it up quite fast so it didn't make first and second grade one year and from there on moved around a lot but I didn't lose anything in changing school because when we came to Maine it was in the summertime so I started school in Warren in the fourth grade, I guess it was, and I was, well I was nine years old when I started school. I was ten in October of that year.

LEVINE:

So you were three years in Vermont, about?

SULIN:

Roughly, yeah.

LEVINE:

And then you came to Maine?

SULIN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And did you settle right around here, when you came to Maine?

SULIN:

We settle in Warren, yeah, well, in fact we spent the first fall, first summer in West Rockport here, on the other mountain over there (he laughs). Well, it was blueberry time and mother got this job of being the cook for the crew that Mr. Loftman had raking blueberries and there was an old house over there and we lived there and she cooked while it was in blueberry season. And up until then they cut the bushes and stuff and then we bought the place in Warren and moved to Warren.

LEVINE:

So then you did the rest of your schooling in Warren?

SULIN:

In Warren, up until I got married. Then we all lived there, well then I got married in 1940, so--

LEVINE:

And how did you meet your wife?

SULIN:

(He sighs.) The way (he laughs) a young boy does, I guess. She was in nurses training here in Rocklnad. The old Knox General Hospital had a nursing school and she graduated in, I think, in the fall of '39, yeah. And 'course I was a young fellow, I got 'round quite a lot. That's how it happened, I guess. (He laughs.)

LEVINE:

What was your wife's maiden name, her first name and her maiden name?

SULIN:

Her first name is Josephine and her last is, was Soboleski.

LEVINE:

S-O-

SULIN:

B-O-L-E-S-K-I, yeah.

LEVINE:

And you, together, have two children?

SULIN:

We have two children.

LEVINE:

And what are their names?

SULIN:

The daughter is right there in that picture with the whole family is, there. Her name is Carol Caseber, now. It's C-A-S-E-B-E-R. And they live in Clearwater, Florida. Her husband's named Bill and the oldest boy there, up until this past year, he was always Willy to us. Now he's changed it to Will because he is a junior at Princeton, so he's doing all right. He's nineteen and there's six years difference between those two kids, I guess. The youngest one there, no, there's eleven years difference. What am I talking about? There's eleven years difference between those kids. She had the youngest one when she was (he laughs) walking, I guess.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. What's the youngest one's name?

SULIN:

That's Wesley. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And what about your son?

SULIN:

Mu son, is there a picture of him hanging there somewhere on that--

LEVIN:

Actually, you could show me the picture after we--

SULIN:

His name is David.

LEVINE:

David.

SULIN:

And his middle name is Aimo.

LEVINE:

Uh huh!

SULIN:

(he laughs.)

LEVINE:

And he's the one who works on the freighter and travels everywhere?

SULIN:

Yeah, he's the captain of the freighter, yep; he travels, all over the world he's been.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. Well, is there anything else you can say about whether you're glad you came to the United States as such a young child or what it's been like being Finnish and being an American?

SULIN:

Well, 'course, when you first, like in a little town like Warren for instance, or any of these places, if you were Finn, you got by all right. But if there, like I always felt that when I was a kid growing up, you know, like kids would have parties, you'd hear about them but you were never invited, you know? And this went on for a long time until you grow older then you start fitting in, but when you were kids, you didn't, you kind of, you were kind of outcast or what have you and I think this happened in all the, you know, the kids that came from foreign countries, until they, you know, it took a while for them to get (he laughs) situated, I guess. But I have no regrets for coming over here, I mean this was, you know, America, I'm American. I had to be naturalized. 'Course back when I went after my naturalization papers, you had to go through a mess because you had to get two sets. You couldn't apply for naturalization until you were sixteen years old and you got your first papers and you had to wait four years before you could apply for your second papers. So I didn't get my second papers until 1944, I think.

LEVINE:

Now, did your mother ever become a citizen?

SULIN:

Oh yes, she became one after I had gotten mine. In fact, my wife's mother and I got our papers (he laughs) the same time.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh huh. Now, were the tests involved? Did you have to--

SULIN:

Oh, yes, you had to be able to read the (he laughs) the Constitution, practically by heart. Oh, you were questioned on all this stuff.

LEVINE:

Now has, was it difficult for your mother?

SULIN:

Very difficult, you know, but 'course they were more lenient, I think, with the older people who couldn't speak English well. Oh yeah.

LEVINE:

Was she proud of herself when she did get her citizenship?

SULIN:

Oh yeah, she got a little flag and everything. She quite proud when I went to see her, you know. She got her's after I was married and I, so I can't remember the year she got her's.

LEVINE:

How do you feel? Do you feel proud of your Finnish heritage?

SULIN:

Oh, definitely, definitely. I feel very proud of it and I think I should be and all the Finns should be. I mean (he chuckles I'm proud of America and I'm proud of being an American, but I'm very proud of my Finnish heritage. Yeah. And I wish that my children would be able to speak Finnish. But, you see, the daughter, of course, my mother was alive when, she was when the son was born but he didn't pick it up, but she would spend a lot of time with mother. She'd go over for a weekend or something and she picked up quite a lot of Finnish words and stuff, but--

LEVINE:

Carol, your daughter?

SULIN:

Carol, yeah. But she's forgotten most of that now. But she even looks like a Finn, you know. (He laughs.)

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, is there anything else you can think of before we close?

SULIN:

No, I really can't think of anything that I can remember of it because, like I say (he laughs) I was too young, really, to remember anything and it's, 'course, I can remember everything from the time I came to America. From there on I can remember everything up to today, which, that way I have a good memory, but I can't remember names. (He laughs.)

LEVINE:

Well, I just, before we close, you then, when you came here to Warren and finished school, then did you start right away in the construction business? Is that how you--

SULIN:

Oh, well, of course, that was in (he laughs), you know, in the 30s there wasn't anything, many jobs around that a kid, you picked up anything you could to make a dollar if you could. And in the summertime I used to help an old Finnish carpenter that lived in Warren. He always came to get me to go with him 'cause I, he had to, he couldn't speak English worth a darn. If I told you the words he knew, well (he laughs), it would make you blush, but, but that's why he a;ways wanted me along because to buy material or anything like that. And I could speak the language and I always, so I would work with him in the summertime, even, when I was fourteen I was out helping him. And all these things came natural to me. I mean, my father, he couldn't drive a nail straight and my brother couldn't do anything better. My brother would work his heart out but doing anything rough, anything like, but he just wasn't, he just didn't have it or what have you. Me, I'm self-taught. Everything that I do, like I worked with him carpentering. I'd see him do something. I'd say, "Heck, I can do that and there's no problem there." At home, I can remember years ago, well, of course, we didn't have, we had electricity (he laughs) in the house in the 30s and so forth but mother hired an electrician to wire a shed that we had that didn't have any lights. So she went on the weekend, some friends up in West Paris or somewhere up there, she went for the weekend and I looked this thing over and I thought it was a pretty sloppy mess. So I tore it all out and redone it. And I was just finishing up and she came home earlier (he laughs) than I thought, and, but, did I get it, you know. She says, "There, I paid good money to have that done, and now you wrecked the whole thing." I said, "You just give me a few more minutes and I'll have it back in business." I said, "I couldn't stand the way he ran the wires. They were here, there and everywhere."

LEVINE:

And it worked.

SULIN:

It worked.

LEVINE:

And was your mother, then she was happy with you?

SULIN:

The she, sure, she says, "Well, why didn't you tell me you could do it, and I would have saved all that money." (They laugh.) Of course, they were quite frugal, I'll tell you. They had to be in them days. There just wasn't any money. Yep.

LEVINE:

So then you just self-taught yourself on and on--heating and plumbing?

SULIN:

Oh yeah. I started doing heating and plumbing and I got my Master Plumber's License in 1955 and at that time I was up in Camden building a house with this same old fellow that I started carpenterying with him. In fact, at that time (he laughs) I got the job and he came one day and he says. "You got any work?" He says, "I'll go to work for you." (He laughs.) I says, "Well, this is a switch."

LEVINE:

How old were you then?

SULIN:

Fifty-five, figure it back. (He laughs.) This is, well, let's see.

LEVINE:

It was 1955?

SULIN:

1955 I was over there building the house. And I'm seventy--, gee whiz I'm seventy-four now. I had a birthday here October the 19th.

LEVINE:

Oh, well, seventy-four, so--

SULIN:

So you see this generation (starts laughing) is pretty well on its last legs.

LEVINE:

Well, you look very well. You look healthy. You feel healthy?

SULIN:

You know, I was over, when? Thursday, Wednesday, I had to go to the doctor. I thought it was just a blood pressure check. I forgot all about it and nobody said anything. (He laughs.) The nurse told me it's my yearly physical. I said, "Thanks a heap." (He laughs.) But, so I was telling the doctor and he said, "How old are you?" I said, I just had a birthday." I said, "I'm getting old." He said, "I think you're doing pretty good." I said, "Well, good, thanks a heap." I feel pretty good. I had my troubles. I had, both hands were operated on for the carpal tunnel syndrome there. See, got one hand, this one. So those hands aren't too hot and, I guess, the type of work I done, using wrenches and hammers and everything. That's what caused it. So they done that. Well, the first in May and the next one in July, I guess. And they're not really a hundred percent, I'll tell you. And then I have bad knees 'cause I hurt this right knee when we first bought the land up here. I had a little tractor down there and I rolled the thing over and landed on my knee. So I was laid up all summer with that. And 'course Old Man Arthritis has got in there and (he laughs) he and his brother both, I guess. And their in both knees so I have problems. They should be operated on. I don't know, after having hands done, whether I want my knees done or not. I put up with it. You know, the Finns, they always said they had sisu, S-I-S-U. And, in fact, there's a sheet in there that advertises all this Finnish stuff. (Indicating a Finnish newsletter.) Inside of that there's a pamphlet. And in one of those sheets inside there, in those colored sheets there.

LEVINE:

What does that mean, sisu?

SULIN:

Sisu means intestinal fortitude.

LEVINE:

And you feel you have that as a Finn?

SULIN:

And being a Finn, you've got it because you, you know, you don't up for nothing. I mean that is ingrained in your birth, I guess, because that's a Finn for you.

LEVINE:

Well, that's a perfect place to stop. (They laugh.) That's great and I thank you very much. It's a pleasure to have been talking with you.

SULIN:

I wish I could have remembered more but (he laughs)--

LEVINE:

You did just great. Thank you.

SULIN:

Oh yeah, you're entirely welcome.

LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service and I've been here speaking with Aimo Sulin--

SULIN:

(Correcting pronunciation.) AIMO!

LEVINE:

Aimo, Aimo Sulin. Okay. And we're here in West Rockport, Maine in Mr. Sulin's beautiful house, high on the hill, looking over the mountains, Penobscot Bay (she laughs) and a whole panorama. Thanks. THE END