SIGRIST:

Good afternoon. This is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. Today is Thursday, January 16th, 1992. We are in the home of Nelly Myers, on the East side of New York, in her apartment. Peter Hom is running the equipment and Carol Bonura is going to be conducting the interview in sign language. Mrs. Myers is deaf. She came from Austria in 1940 when she was ten years old. This is our first interview for 1992. It's all yours, Carol.

BONURA:

Good afternoon. This is Carol Bonura for the National Park Service. Today is January 16th, 1992. Today we are here with Nelly Myers, who was born in Austria...

MYERS:

Vienna.

BONURA:

Vienna, Austria and left from Italy (pause)...

MYERS:

First from Vienna, then to...

BONURA:

Italy.

MYERS:

Genoa, Genoa.

BONURA:

Genoa, Italy. May, 1940 at the age of nine.

MYERS:

Nine, no, no, no. Eleven.

BONURA:

Eleven, excuse me. Good morning, Ms. Myers. Can you please give me your name...

SIGRIST:

(to Carol): Say it out loud.

BONURA:

And your date of birth? She was born March 2nd, 1929. Where were you born?

MYERS:

In Vienna. BONURA? Were you born deaf?

MYERS:

Yes, deaf.

BONURA:

Yes, she was. (Mrs. Myers corrects Carol's signing for "deaf") Deaf, excuse me. What size town? What was the size of the town?

MYERS:

A small city, Vienna. I was born, I used to live Second Street, where a lot of Jewish people lived.

BONURA:

What is your father's name?

MYERS:

Isadore. Isadore.

BONURA:

What kind of work did he do?

MYERS:

Very expert in clothing, suits. Suit operator. Very good.

BONURA:

Was he deaf?

MYERS:

(correcting Carol's signing of "deaf") Deaf. But he had scarlet fever when he became deaf. He was born in Poland and had scarlet fever and that's how he became deaf.

BONURA:

What is your mother's name?

MYERS:

Hilda, Hilda. Hilda Ratner.

BONURA:

What job? Did she have a job?

MYERS:

She was a dress operator in America and in Europe. A dress operator, a dress maker.

BONURA:

Talk about your mother. What kind of person was she?

MYERS:

Oh, she was a very STUBBORN person! That's why we came to America. If it wasn't for her stubbornness, we'd be dead in Vienna.

BONURA:

Wow. What kind of life? Was she quiet? Was she funny?

MYERS:

Oh, yeah. She was funny. She had a good life.

BONURA:

Do you have brothers and sisters?

MYERS:

One sister. She's deaf, too.

BONURA:

What kind of home did you live in in Vienna?

MYERS:

Regular home.

BONURA:

Big? Small?

MYERS:

Apartment.

BONURA:

Did you have animals?

MYERS:

No, no.

BONURA:

She didn't have any animals. (directly to Ms. Myers) That's a question we ask.

MYERS:

I would love to have them but her mother said, "No, no, no. "My mother, she didn't like cats, either. I loved animals but I couldn't have them.

BONURA:

Who else lived in the building in Vienna in the apartment?

MYERS:

Me, my mother and my sister and my uncle, who was deaf. My mother's brother. And my hearing grandmother. Five of us.

BONURA:

Wow. How old was your uncle?

MYERS:

He was about, now when my mother died she was eighty-six, she died at eighty-six. He must have been eighty-four. He died of his heart.

BONURA:

Who cooked in your home?

MYERS:

My grandmother. My mother was too busy cleaning and raising us. (she laughs)

BONURA:

What was your favorite food in Vienna?

MYERS:

In Vienna? Candy. Chocolate. Famous, Vienna's very famous for its sweets.

BONURA:

What was dinner time like at your home in Vienna?

MYERS:

Dinner time?

BONURA:

Dinner time.

MYERS:

Afternoon, around noon.

BONURA:

But what kind of environment was it? Quiet? Strict or fun?

MYERS:

No, it wasn't fun. It was just my sister and we were small. We had fun going to school, oh yes. But it was scary when the Nazis...

BONURA:

Oh, when the, yes. Tell me.

MYERS:

I thought I had to talk about Ellis Island and not talk about this.

SIGRIST:

( to Carol) That's fine. Let her talk about this.

BONURA:

Okay. (to Mrs. Myers) Whatever you want to talk about before Ellis and after Ellis is fine. If you want to talk about the Nazis, it's fine.

MYERS:

Okay. I loved going to school. I loved my friends. I had friends and everything was fine. But one time I think I remember, I was in, sometime in, I saw Nazis coming in Vienna. MARCHING! I looked out and I said, "What's that?" My mother was so scared. She knew something bad was happening. They had rifles, marching. Because I lived near the Danube River. Something's new, because I was so young I was very curious. I was wondering what was going on. Everybody warned us. The first Nazis came in and then they started to do something terrible against us Jews. They closed the whole school. I had no school for two years. For two years no school. I felt so bad. But the Gentile people were so good to us, Gentile people, they were so good to us an one teacher from my school came to my house to help me with lessons, my lessons. If the Nazis found out that she helped me they would have killed her. They were so courageous. They were so nice. It was a pleasure learning. In two years I had no school, for two years. The Nazis were horrible, raped all the Jews. In my building all the Jews had gone. They took them to concentration camps and they left because they weren't born in Vienna. We were the last ones because we were born in Vienna. I was lucky. We were one of the last people to get out. So my father was in one of the trucks, train, train truck that picked up all the Jews in the truck. In the truck my father was one of them. They put gas all over the trucks and they would take them to concentration camps in Minsk, do you know where that is, and when they stopped at that camp and opened the train doors, all there were dead and they pushed them out of the train. It was awful. My father was one of them.

BONURA:

That's how your father was killed?

MYERS:

Yes. He was gassed and my mother wanted to divorce him anyway because he was not so good to us.

BONURA:

Okay. Did you have any other family members, other familymembers who lived in Austria? Aunts..?

MYERS:

I lived in Vienna, near Hungary, and I have aunts and uncles who lived there. All there. They were all killed and I have some family in Czechoslovakia, nearby Vienna, here, all around here. They were all killed, though, just because they were Jews.

BONURA:

How did you communicate with a hearing family?

MYERS:

It was VERY difficult, but I felt bad because they didn't want to learn sign language. It's common. My aunt, my mother's sister moved out to Israel. They're still alive.

BONURA:

Wow. How did you learn sign language?

MYERS:

I was deaf. Through my mother. That's how. She taught me. Through my mother. But sometimes I do talk because when I was in school I signed at two years old and I learned to talk there. I was very thankful I learned to sign in kindergarten.

BONURA:

What kind of religious life did you lead in Vienna? Did yougo to a temple?

MYERS:

Yes, we went to the temple. But my family aren't strong religious people but we went to the temple. But my mother must eat kosher food, yes, and my grandmother. Very strict.

BONURA:

What was it like to be deaf and Jewish before World War Two?

MYERS:

OH! Plenty. They all make fun of me because I'm Jewish.

BONURA:

Did they tease you because you were deaf?

MYERS:

No, no. Just because I was Jewish. But deaf, yes. When I signed, they teased me and they made funny hand gestures, made fun of me but today they don't do that anymore. Thank God. (she laughs)

BONURA:

I agree with you. I agree. (Carol flips to her next page of questions) Who decided to come to America?

MYERS:

America? Who decided? (trying to put Carol at ease) Don't be nervous now.

BONURA:

Who decided to come to America?

MYERS:

Because my grandmother was the only hearing person, because the four of us were deaf and knew nothing about the outside world. We knew nothing. No happiness. Because my grandmother heard the neighbors saying, "Please get out of Vienna now because the Nazis want to destroy you! So please hurry." The teachers in school told me, "Get out now, now!" So my mother started to act before it was too late. We went to the Consulate, United States Consulate, I'm not sure. United States. She went there asking, "I want an affidavit to come to America." But we happened to have an uncle who left Vienna a long time ago who got a job here. So I asked him to write us a letter that he would take care of us and he said he would do that for us. So the Consulate gave us an affidavit so we could get out anytime now. We were poor. We had no money. So we managed to get train money. It was awful because my mother and uncle worked hard, yes, and had some money left over. But the Nazis took everything from us. We brought nothing, just our clothes, that's all. No money. That's it. Nothing. Brought very little. Very little possessions. We went in the train going out of Vienna border when we were leaving to go to Italy. The Nazis went in the train and examined us. And my mother had gold in her teeth and in her suits and they were looking all over. We were small. They didn't bother us. And they examined my mother and my uncle. We were okay and then we went on the train to Italy. Some experience, yes. I will NEVER forget. Never. Impossible.

BONURA:

Did you plan to come to America packing clothes, packing food?

MYERS:

No, no.

BONURA:

What did you bring?

MYERS:

At first my mother thought of sending us to Israel because my aunt was there but later she changed her mind and thought America was better because to her America was a free country.

BONURA:

What had you heard about America when you lived in Vienna?

MYERS:

Oh, yes, oh, yes. My father tells me everyday about America. Wow, wow, wow. America is a wonderful country. He kept telling me and telling me. The Statue of Liberty, yeah, yeah, yeah! He learned about that. So many things.

BONURA:

Did your neighbors tell you about America, too? MYERS No, not really. But my teacher, yeah, she told me.

BONURA:

What did she tell you?

MYERS:

PLEASE LEAVE NOW!

BONURA:

Oh, please leave now.

MYERS:

The super in my building, they hid us because the Jews were not allowed to eat the food, consensus, because, so we couldn't buy any food from the stores, from eight to nine. The Jews can pay for food from eight 'til nine. We weren't allowed to buy much food. It was awful. And one time, I was not afraid. My mother was afraid so I went out to buy her milk or something and I saw a group of Nazi youths and they came to me and they surrounded me. And they said, "Are you a Jew?" and I didn't say anything so they slapped me in the face.

BONURA:

What did you do?

MYERS:

I said nothing. I ran home and I told my mother. My mother was in great fear. I wasn't. I was too young. I was too young to be afraid It was awful. So it was hard to get out of there.

BONURA:

Who came to America with you?

MYERS:

Me, my sister, my mother, my uncle and my grandmother. Five of us.

BONURA:

Did any family member stay in Vienna?

MYERS:

No.

BONURA:

What port did you leave from?

MYERS:

From Genoa. I remember the ship, named "Rex." Beautiful thing.

BONURA:

Tell me about it?

MYERS:

And the staff there were so friendly. We had ten days of a trip from Vienna to the United States and I vomited everyday. I vomited everyday because the ship went back and forth.

BONURA:

Did anyone help you to come to Italy? Anyone help you?

MYERS:

Yes. The HIAS helped us. The Hebrew, yes, the HIAS helped us, they helped us a lot.

BONURA:

What did they do for you and your family?

MYERS:

When we got to Genoa they welcomed us in some kind of house. We ate there for two days because the ship hadn't arrived yet, so they helped us stay there. It was so good. They were very hospitable people. Italians are.

BONURA:

Did someone examine you before the boat? Medical exams?

MYERS:

In Vienna?

BONURA:

No, in Italy.

MYERS:

No. No exams because we all looked healthy.

BONURA:

Where did you sleep on the ship? On the bottom? On the top?

MYERS:

In the middle. I'm not too sure.

BONURA:

Did someone help you because you were deaf?

MYERS:

(correcting Carol's signing of the word "deaf") Deaf, please.

BONURA:

(correcting herself): Deaf. Did someone help you?

MYERS:

No, no one helped us. We had all the papers, affidavits, so everything was fine. No problem.

BONURA:

What was the food like in the ship?

MYERS:

I vomited all the time. I don't know. I vomited because the ship went back and forth.

BONURA:

How was the boat trip? People that worked there, other immigrants? Did you make friends on the boat?

MYERS:

Not on the ship. I don't think so. I don't really remember. Ten days.

BONURA:

Wow. Did you play games on the ship?

MYERS:

I don't remember, really. I'm sorry. Maybe I was too busy vomiting and eating, too. (she laughs)

BONURA:

The ship was nine to ten days coming over?

MYERS:

Nine to ten days coming through. Big ship. The "Rex." It sunk. I think it sunk, I don't know. It was so nice. I remember. I have good memories about it.

BONURA:

Do you remember seeing the Statue of Liberty?

MYERS:

Wait, wait, wait! When we were nearing the port I saw. I looked up. I was so thrilled to see the Statue of Liberty. I looked and I saw the sky scrapers and I was so thrilled about it because I knew something about it because my father had told me.

BONURA:

You felt thrilled to see the Statue of Liberty?

MYERS:

People were jumping they were so happy. All immigrants were so happy when we got here.

BONURA:

Were you scared of Ellis Island?

MYERS:

When I got there, fine. Everybody went out. (a short exchange as Carol understands that Ms. Myers is talking about getting off the boat) When we left the ship and I saw so many people all over and I had to go through, what do you call it, the gate. And I had to go through the gate and they stopped us, the five of us, because there were four deaf people too much, so they had to send us to Ellis Island. They took us on the ferry to Ellis Island.

BONURA:

Were you scared? Were you thrilled to see Ellis Island?

MYERS:

It was so new. Everything was so new.

BONURA:

The people that worked at Ellis Island, were they good to your family?

MYERS:

As far as I remember it was nice. They were good. They hadseparate dining rooms. One group for kosher and the other for non-kosher. Imagine that. I never expected that. My mother felt so good!

BONURA:

What was your grandmother like?

MYERS:

Old lady. Very religious.

BONURA:

Was she in charge? Was she dominant?

MYERS:

Dominant, oh yes, of course.

BONURA:

Was she strict?

MYERS:

But always had good communication. We talked, talked, talked and I read lips. I don't think she was pleased to have two deaf kids.No, I don't think so.

BONURA:

You were close to your grandmother?

MYERS:

Yes, yes. I was close. But at first I loved her and then I found out. I'm disappointed in her. She was a very smart woman. She was a teacher. END OF TAPE SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF TAPE, SIDE TWO

BONURA:

Did you make friends with other immigrants in Ellis Island?

MYERS:

No, but when my mother and my uncle made dresses for me and my sister because the gave out what you call "hand-me-downs," fabrics, so my mother took some and made dresses for me and my sister and the immigrants saw them and they came to my mother and uncle, "Help me sew this hole. Repair this!" They made some money, a little money. For five months we were here. FIVE MONTHS!

BONURA:

Did the people that worked at Ellis Island tell you why you had to stay for five months?

MYERS:

We had to stay because they were afraid that we will depend on the United States financially because they didn't know anything about deafness. Tanya Nash, have you heard about her?

BONURA:

No, I've never heard of Tanya Nash.

MYERS:

New York Society For The Deaf, Tanya Nash, she used to work here. She signed good and she knew about us and she came to Ellis Island and spoke with a judge there explaining everything about deafness. "Very independent people and all that. That we would never depend on United States money. No. You don't have to worry about it. No. You don't have to worry about it. Let them go." They wouldn't let us go. So they decided, the judge decided that we must be bonded,$2,500.00, from the Jewish philanthropists. They would have, they wouldn't be very happy to lend us $2,500.00. This is money to support us if we couldn't work or something. So then, later, they did and finally let us go. We were so happy to leave. When we got out my mother and uncle worked, saved, paid back the money. It took five years. The money was all paid off, finally. $2,500.00 in five years. They finally paid it off. They both worked so hard.

BONURA:

Wow. Was Ellis Island dirty? Clean?

MYERS:

No, clean. Clean. They cleaned all the time. Very good.

BONURA:

What did you eat at Ellis Island?

MYERS:

Regular meals.

BONURA:

Did you have strange food?

MYERS:

No, no strange food. We are in the United States. There wouldn't be strange, why would it be strange? No, no.

BONURA:

Different foods you never saw before?

MYERS:

No, no. Very familiar with everything. Chicken, we hadchicken and all that. Are there some foods that are new?

BONURA:

Banana.

MYERS:

Banana?

BONURA:

Did you ever see a banana before?

MYERS:

Oh, yeah. Everything.

BONURA:

Did you ever see Jello before?

MYERS:

Maybe, maybe, maybe not.

BONURA:

Do you remember medical exams for you at Ellis Island? What did they do for you?

MYERS:

I had diphtheria, I think, so I was sent to the hospital there. I was so unhappy. ( A short exchange ensues between Carol and Ms. Myers and Carol tells her it's not important) BONURA; Did they test your hearing?

MYERS:

Maybe so. I don't really remember.

BONURA:

Where did you sleep in Ellis Island? Where did you sleep?

MYERS:

They separated the men from the women. I slept with my mother and my sister. My uncle was in the other dorm. They had separate sleeping. It was nice. Clean but not comfortable like a hotel, no. It's like in the army. Just like in the army. Bunks, HARD bunks.

BONURA:

Who talked for you in Ellis Island? Your grandmother talked for the family?

MYERS:

Yes, but Tanya Nash talked for us and spoke for us. There was no problem, really.

BONURA:

Did you play games? Did people come? Shows?

MYERS:

Oh, yes. I went to the really nice library. Books all over. You know what I picked, one book? I learned English. I became an expert in five months. Smart me. (she laughs) I learned a lot. And the sailors, the sailors used to dock around us and we were in the middle of the New York bay, in the middle, and the soldiers came and they stopped there and I used to wave and flirt with them and say, "Hi!"

BONURA:

Did you have a good time?

MYERS:

I had a very good time?

BONURA:

Did you ever meet any sailors?

MYERS:

No, no.

BONURA:

Close-up, yes. "Hi!" (they laugh)

MYERS:

I had good times, though, and my mother sewed and I studied English and my sister, we all went to school there.

BONURA:

What did you learn?

MYERS:

I don't remember. My sister played dolls all the time.

BONURA:

How about your uncle? What did he do?

MYERS:

He sewed, the same as my mother.

BONURA:

Who came to meet you at Ellis Island when you left?

MYERS:

My uncle came to visit us. He used to live in the Bronx and he came to visit us once in a while.

BONURA:

How did you leave Ellis Island? By boat or...?

MYERS:

The ferry came.

BONURA:

Can you talk about that?

MYERS:

My uncle helped us to find an apartment for us in the Bronx .I lived there in the Bronx for one year and then we moved to Brooklyn. Then we moved to Manhattan. Then I moved to New Jersey when I got married.

BONURA:

When you were young, where did you live in Manhattan? Where? When you were younger, where?

MYERS:

Riverside Drive, Riverside Drive, 820 Riverside Drive. I remember the number of the building.

BONURA:

How long did you live there?

MYERS:

Long time, until I got married.

BONURA:

How long did you live in Brooklyn?

MYERS:

One year.

BONURA:

How long did you live in the Bronx?

MYERS:

One year, too. I wasn't happy with that location. I don't know why. It depended on the jobs my mother had.

BONURA:

How did your mother feel in America, working, when you left Ellis Island?

MYERS:

So happy. She loved the United States. She kissed the United States. So happy.

BONURA:

How about your uncle? How did he feel?

MYERS:

They both were very happy.

BONURA:

Your grandmother, how did she feel?

MYERS:

She was happy, of course, but I don't know.

BONURA:

Okay. (she turns to her next page of questions)

MYERS:

All my history. Nosy! (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Very nosy.

BONURA:

What was your apartment like when you lived in Manhattan? House or apartment building? What did it look like?

MYERS:

It was five people living in a three room apartment, four room apartment.

BONURA:

Was it crowded?

MYERS:

Not really. My mother kept the house SO spic-and-span, so CLEAN!

BONURA:

Where did you go to school?

MYERS:

(Ms. Myers demonstrates to Carol how to sign "school") When I got here I went to Lexington School. I was there for five years. I was not happy there at all. Because I'm a foreigner the kids, the kids were very cruel. They made fun of me because I'm foreigner and I wore hand-me-down clothing. They made fun of me. Everything was horrible. The teachers were horrible, very, (brief pause in the tape) negative thoughts about me. I was not happy there. I was there five years but I survived anyway.

BONURA:

Did you learn English in school?

MYERS:

Oh, yes. I had some English at Ellis Island and I picked up very fast.

BONURA:

How about your other family members? They learned English?

MYERS:

My sister, but my uncle and my mother were very slow. My sister went to Lexington School. When I was in Vienna, I went to Oral School, when I was two years old in Vienna, and I learned to talk there. And I moved here and they signed and they wanted to have speech, too, so I had no problem with that. What else?

BONURA:

How did your family support themselves?

MYERS:

Sewing, sewing machine operators. My uncle had an extra job doing hand sewing. Very expert for fine places, for British suits. My uncle sewed clothing, coats, very good.

BONURA:

Did you go to the temple in the city here? Were you religious? Did you practice your religion?

MYERS:

Yes. I'm not in very strong in religion.

BONURA:

When did you get engaged, married, children, when?

MYERS:

1949 I met a nice man. I fell in love with him so we got married and I have two lovely kids and I'm happy I married him. But I divorced him. We don't get along.

BONURA:

Was he hearing?

MYERS:

No, deaf. But he became deaf much later, when he had spinal menengitis, he became deaf. But his cousin is deaf, too. And his cousin, the older cousin was deaf, too. I don't believe he had spinal menengitis. Maybe his mother was ashamed to admit it, I don't know.

BONURA:

What was your career?

MYERS:

When I finished school, I started with key punch operator. So BORING! I worked there for many years. When I finished with high school, I went to, I got married and then I went to Hunter College for two years. I dropped out, finished, because I'm stupid.(she laughs)

BONURA:

What did you study at Hunter?

MYERS:

Many, I forgot the name of it, about, I wanted to learn German more, I forgot the word for it, about the world, how groups of people live, their culture. I forgot the word for that. I forgot. Studying the different cultures. There's a word. But I couldn't get along well because I'm not able to understand things unless I have someone sitting near me to make notes for me but it wasn't enough, so I left. Then in 1973 I was very sick with MS.

BONURA:

For how long were you sick? For one year, one month?

MYERS:

I was in the hospital for one, five, six weeks. I was in the hospital. Therapy in walking. I couldn't walk. I'm okay now. A few side affects, anyway.

BONURA:

Did your deafness, being deaf, get in the way of your dreams? Did your deafness get in the way of your dreams?

MYERS:

When I was young I used to love, to want to talk over the phone. I used to want to. I couldn't. That's the only thing. And when my kids grew up I used to bother them with phone calls. Then when the TTY came I was finished. I'm independent and a relief from my kids. They find me a PAIN in the neck to keep bothering them. I'm awful. I'm sorry I did that.

BONURA:

So this is Carol Bonura signing off for the National Park Service with Nelly Myers, leaving. Thank you very much for an interesting interview. Is there anything you would like to say?

MYERS:

Anything more? No.

BONURA:

Thank you very much for the interesting interview. This is Carol Bonura signing off for the National Park Service with Nelly Myers.

ORAL HISTORIAN'S NOTE:

IN A LETTER DATED 4/13/92, MS. MYERS ASKED THAT THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL BE ADDED TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF HER INTERVIEW. --PAUL E. SIGRIST, JR., ORAL HISTORIAN, 4/23/92--

MYERS:

After reading my own Oral History, I realized that I did not mention about the experience that I could never forget. It was when the Nazis gathered many Jewish older men and pushed them to walk with a sign holding " Ich bin Juden" ( I am ---JEWS sic.) on the street. I started to cry as it was the saddest thing to see for a ten year old girl. END OF INTERVIEW