LEVINE:

Today is May 19 th , the year 2003. And I'm here in Great, in New Britain Connecticut.

WALCZEWSKI:

Right.

LEVINE:

And I'm here with Carl Walczewski, and his sister Anna who's married name is Michalowski. And they came from Poland and arrived in New York September 7 th , 1923. At that time Carl was three and a half years old and Anna was eight years old. They came on the SS Paris and left from Le Havre, in France. Okay, at the time of this interview Carl is eighty-three years old, and Anna is eighty- nine. And also Carl's wife is here with us today. And this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. Okay, if you would start and say, each of you, what your name was on the ship's manifest when you came over.

MICHALOWSKI:

Mine was Anna Walczewski.

LEVINE:

Okay, Anna Michalowski. And yours wasn't Carl; it was something else right?

WALCZEWSKI:

Mine was Kazimiers.

LEVINE:

And that's K-A-Z-I-M-I-E-Z.

WALCZEWSKI:

Let's see I got it right. K-A-Z-I-M-I-E-R-S.

LEVINE:

Oh, E-R-S. I have a Z here on the end, but whatever.

WALCZEWSKI:

Hebrew.

LEVINE:

Now, so and was the name on the ship's manifest was Walczewski?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yes.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes

LEVINE:

That stayed the same, you're last name didn't change.

MICHALOWSKI:

No until we went to school. And then the teacher's couldn't pronounce it even so they made up the Wolinski. Was close enough.

LEVINE:

Well now do you have, like when you go around, go about your life do you call, do you use Wolinski?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes, I did. I got married under Wolinski, yes.

WALCZEWSKI:

Did you have it changed legally?

MICHALOWSKI:

I had it all the time so I just . . .

WALCZEWSKI:

Well it's legal. Your marriage, I had to get married . . .

MICHALOWSKI:

It's too late now, my husbands dead and . . .

LEVINE:

Oh.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah well that's alright.

LEVINE:

What happened to you? You used Wolinski and it wasn't valid?

WALCZEWSKI:

No, it's not. Any papers or anything legal had to be Walczewski. When we got married, my wife and I, I had to get married under Walczewski. And she insisted because otherwise Wolinski was not my legal name until I got my citizen papers and then it was changed back to Walczewski, but my school days were Wolinski.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh. And how did your, how do you say Kazimiers? How did you say your first name?

WALCZEWSKI:

Kazimiers. But English would be Kazimier. I should have left it as Kazimier.

LEVINE:

Did you change that legally?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well I changed it from Kazimier to Carl but the teachers already had changed it, but it wasn't legal 'til I went to the court.

LEVINE:

And changed it. Okay, if each of you would say your birth date.

MICHALOWSKI:

January 6 th , 1914.

LEVINE:

And yours?

WALCZEWSKI:

2/3/20

LEVINE:

2/3/20. Okay, and now the name of the town in Poland or the city or town that you lived in.

WALCZEWSKI:

Wawlocwawek. Yeah I used to, that was right.

LEVINE:

Would you spell it again just for the tape?

WALCZEWSKI:

W-A-W-L-O-C-W-A-W-E-K.

LEVINE:

Okay, and we ascertained that it's northwest, it's about one hundred miles from Warsaw.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

It's one hundred miles northwest of Warsaw. And the province is?

WALCZEWSKI:

Byvocz.

LEVINE:

Byvocz. B-Y-V-O-C-Z.

WALCZEWSKI:

Byvocz. Yeah something, I think there's a O after a D or so.

LEVINE:

Alright, well that's an approximate spelling we would say.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, alright.

LEVINE:

Okay, now do you have any memories, Carl of life in Poland? I mean maybe you have none because you were so young.

WALCZEWSKI:

No I have a memory of a fence and also the river. That's all.

LEVINE:

That's the Vistula River.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah that's all I know.

MICHALOWSKI:

That was in our backyard.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. That's all I know, remember.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. So you just have two visual images in your mind is that it?

WALCZEWSKI:

That's all, yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

We spent a lot of time in that water. That's why he remembers.

LEVINE:

Tell me about the Vistula River and what you did.

MICHALOWSKI:

We were playing all, I'm surprised we never drowned because nobody watched us, you know we were there all the time, in the river playing and swimming. And people were catching fish there, yeah.

LEVINE:

So, but you have memories.

MICHALOWSKI:

Some, yeah.

LEVINE:

How about, why don't we get your mother and father's names.

MICHALOWSKI:

My mother was Jenny, and my father was Frank.

LEVINE:

And do you know your mother's maiden name?

WALCZEWSKI:

Machak.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

I don't know if I could spell that or not. Machak.

LEVINE:

Why don't you just make a try.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. M-A-C-

MICHALOWSKI:

A-K

WALCZEWSKI:

C-S and C-H

MICHALOWSKI:

Jenny would know. Jenny's good at that.

WALCZEWSKI:

A-K or something like that. Machak.

LEVINE:

And now you mentioned your mother's family had come from Austria?

MICHALOWSKI:

It wasn't in Austria?

WALCZEWSKI:

I don't know.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

You don't, do you know if on your mother or father's side the generations went back? Like did you have grandparents at all, that you remember?

MICHALOWSKI:

On my father's side I had. But my mother's father died years ago. I never knew him.

LEVINE:

Your grandmother on your mother's side did you ever know her?

MICHALOWSKI:

No she died before the grandfather. They died young in those years.

LEVINE:

Yeah. But you think she might not have come from Poland. You think she might have come. . ....?

MICHALOWSKI:

She wasn't in Poland; she was in Poland after she got married.

LEVINE:

Oh okay.

MICHALOWSKI:

That's when she, you know. She came here with her sisters, she had three other sisters.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Three or two?

WALCZEWSKI:

Three.

MICHALOWSKI:

And she had two brothers. And the brothers died when we had that influenza epidemic. And the sisters lived till they were old ladies. And they got married, they had children too.

LEVINE:

Did you know them?

MICHALOWSKI:

Not too much. We didn't have cars to. . , they all lived in Bristol. And so we knew who they were, yeah. But my sister married a Bristol fellow, Jenny the one's not here. And she lived all the time in Bristol so she knew everybody. Too bad she's not here.

LEVINE:

Yeah well maybe she'll come.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Well okay so, do you remember your grandparents on your father's side?

MICHALOWSKI:

Just the grandmother. The father was gone.

LEVINE:

What do you remember about her?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well she was a very old lady, working in the fields all the time. I don't know how old she was but, you know.

LEVINE:

She looked old.

MICHALOWSKI:

To me. And she used to, you know we'd go visit the farm. We lived in the city, and she had a farm.

LEVINE:

Oh uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. And I remember during the war, they were on the other side. The enemy was on the other side of the river, and they would shoot over our house. And nobody got hurt but the bullets were flying, you know. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Wow so, lets see. So do you remember, so you were brought up Catholic?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And was your family strict? Did you. . .?

MICHALOWSKI:

Very strict.

LEVINE:

In what way were they strict?

MICHALOWSKI:

(Sighs) Well even, like when we came here, we lived on a third floor. And during the vacation we couldn't go downstairs in the yard. And the weekends, Saturday and Sunday, I couldn't wait for Monday so I could go to school. Very strict.

LEVINE:

And what about, did you have to spend a lot of time in church? Or did you have to spend time at home?

MICHALOWSKI:

In the house. Always working, he'd find, my father would find lot of work for us. There were seven, well there were five at that time.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Then at the end she had twins, my mother.

LEVINE:

So what kind of chores did you have as a little girl?

MICHALOWSKI:

What kind of?

LEVINE:

Chores.

MICHALOWSKI:

Everything! I had to do everything. Peel vegetables and help with the laundry and cleaning, and always. And if I sat down my father says take a rag wipe on top of the windows and doors, (laughs) always made us work. And I was the oldest, I was always "stada inen ph. Polish} they call it in Polish, that means you're old, you do the work, yeah.

LEVINE:

And Carl you were the youngest of those who came over.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah he was. Mary was older than you.

WALCZEWSKI:

She's a year and a half younger.

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh she was the youngest.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So she was a just about a year old when she came? Or two?

WALCZEWSKI:

Nine months old or so, she was only, yeah. About eight months old. We have the date.

MICHALOWSKI:

She died last Christmas. She was April 20 th ?

LEVINE:

So who traveled with you when you came?

MICHALOWSKI:

All of us, all of us. We were all together.

LEVINE:

Were there seven?

MICHALOWSKI:

No, there were five children at that time.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And your mother.

MICHALOWSKI:

No! Wait, my sister Josephine wasn't born at that time.

WALCZEWSKI:

She was born in Bristol.

MICHALOWSKI:

There were four. There were four of us.

LEVINE:

And your mother.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. And father.

LEVINE:

And your father traveled with you too?

MICHALOWSKI:

All the time, yeah.

LEVINE:

Okay so. You mentioned that, well you said you liked to swim in the river and. . what else can you remember that you enjoyed while you were in Poland?

MICHALOSKI:

I was going to school. I went to school there and I loved arithmetic. That was my best subject. And then when I came here I had to go with the first grade children. And I didn't know a word of English, and the teacher would write down arithmetic and I'd go over with the chalk and I would put the right answers. I knew that, but the other children were only you know much younger than I was. And I had an awful time. But in a year's time I talked English as good as anybody.

LEVINE:

Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

I tried, we didn't have TV or radio but I tried very hard to be American, you know.

LEVINE:

And did your mother and father want you to be American?

MICHALOWSKI:

No we had to talk Polish in the house. Oh that was just between ourselves and you know outside the house I could talk English. And I wanted to learn you know because I felt awful in the classroom, I didn't know.

LEVINE:

Did the other children tease you or anything?

MICHALOWSKI:

No, but the teacher didn't like me.

LEVINE:

Oh you think because you were an immigrant child?

MICHALOWSKI:

That yeah, and I guess she had to put up with me too. But I learned, you know. I tried very hard.

LEVINE:

Well getting back to Poland. What was it about school that you liked? What was school like there?

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh I just liked you know everything about the school.

LEVINE:

Okay, and is there anything else you can think of, like did your mother and father, what did they do in Poland?

MICHALOWSKI:

My father always tried to work. He didn't have a regular job, so on the river he would bring different things from our town and go in a boat and bring it to another, you know cross the river bring it the other town. And he would sell it there. And he'd bring things from that side on our side and, you know, he would back and forth. But he was very ambitious and he you know, he worked hard.

LEVINE:

Yeah. And what was he like? What was his personality?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well like I said, at that time I didn't notice it you know. But later when we're getting a little older, he was very strict. Very strict, yeah.

LEVINE:

And how about your mother? What was she like?

MICHALOWSKI:

She was one of the kids. ( she laughs ) She didn't go along with him but she couldn't do anything, you know.

LEVINE:

Okay is there anything else that you remember about life in Poland before you came?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well we went to church a lot, you know and the church was like going to theatre or something. There was no theatres but you know, it was a gathering place. And I played in the neighborhood with the children there and nothing special. And we'd go you know, explore different parts and all. Nobody worried about us or, you know.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh, great. So, now when you were getting ready to leave, you mentioned your father came here first.

MICHALOWSKI:

No.

LEVINE:

He didn't?

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh that was way back. When he was single.

LEVINE:

Oh.

MICHALOWSKI:

He came here and his brother was here first, he sponsored him. And my mother came, her sister sponsored her.

LEVINE:

So she came when she was single too?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes, they got married, they met together in Bristol and they got married in Bristol. Then I came along. And when I was about six months old he decided to go back to Poland.

LEVINE:

Do you know, did anybody ever tell you why they decided to come here in the first place?

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh it's a better place. Anytime you heard the word America you felt you were going to heaven. You know, like people here knock the country, I can't believe it because look from Cuba they drown coming here and Mexico they suffocate in the vans and all. So it was a good place to go.

LEVINE:

Well why do you think your father wanted to go back to Poland?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think his mother was ailing already and he wanted to see her before she died.

LEVINE:

I see. So they went back, and then how long did your mother and father stay in Poland before they came here in 1923.

MICHALOWSKI:

Well over seven years, yeah.

LEVINE:

Over seven years, oh okay. And then, what did your father do the same thing on the Vistula River when we went back? That's when he was doing that, bringing things from one side to the other?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. And when they came back here, were there relatives here in this country?

MICHALOWSKI:

They sponsored us or we wouldn't be able to come here.

LEVINE:

So who sponsored you? Do you know?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well his brother did.

LEVINE:

And was he in Connecticut?

MICHALOWSKI:

He had a farm in Southington. He had a, yeah.

LEVINE:

Is that near Bristol?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah it is Bristol. Forestville is part of Bristol.

LEVINE:

Oh okay. So he came back and, do you remember Anna packing and preparing to leave? Do you remember the preparations for leaving?

MICHALOWSKI:

From Poland to here?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

We didn't have much. Mostly what we wore you know our clothes. Like we lived there, it was one room.

LEVINE:

Yeah describe the house.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. It was, you had a stove in one corner. Then we had beds on one side, and my mother and father had the bed on the other side of the room. And we had a little table by the stove and we ate our meals there. And that's about it. And there was nothing we could take like, you know furniture or anything. So we just had our clothes and that's all we came in with.

LEVINE:

Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

We didn't have much of that either. Just what we could wear I guess, yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. So do you remember leaving home?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes. And we boarded a train, and I guess we went to where the ship was.

LEVINE:

Was there any kind of a send off? Did people come around do you remember . . .

MICHALOWSKI:

Before that, you know they all wished us luck and all that yeah. He left, my father left sister there. She had, he had a sister that was, she got married, she had a family too. And you know he left her there. We were lucky we came ourselves. Yeah.

LEVINE:

So you boarded a train, and you went from the town you lived in to France.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And you ended up in the port of Le Havre. Was that a long time, do you remember if there was, it was a long journey? I mean did you ...

MICHALOWSKI:

Very long, yes.

LEVINE:

Did you spend anywhere on route? Any time on route anywhere else?

MICHALOWSKI:

No I don't think so.

LEVINE:

And did you spend much time at the port before you got on the ship?

MICHALOWSKI:

It seems we got on the boat not too, you know we didn't wait too long.

LEVINE:

Okay, and that was the SS Paris. Do you remember anything about the voyage?

MICHALOWSKI:

You know we could go anywhere we wanted to. And I went up on the deck and I saw black man washing the floor. And I ran back to my mother and I said there's a devil over there. ( she laughs ) And I was scared! I'd never saw a black person, you know before that. And she knew so she told me, you know, it was a man. Yeah.

LEVINE:

So, you got to, do you remember when the ship came into the New York Harbor?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Did you see the Statue of Liberty? Do you remember?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know. I don't remember the Statue of Liberty but I remember we came, where we had dining room tables set up. You know big long tables where we had meals and all.

LEVINE:

On the ship or at Ellis Island?

MICHALOWSKI:

At the, Ellis Island yeah.

LEVINE:

So anything else you remember about Ellis Island?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well we just enjoyed it there. You know we could run around all over and come in and have our meals and then go out again, and it was you know we left everything to the parents. Whatever they told us, you know.

LEVINE:

Well now why don't you tell about what happened to your brother on the ship.

MICHALOWSKI:

I think during the night he fell off the bunk, you know to the concrete floor.

WALCZEWSKI:

Concrete? On the ship? Made of steal.

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know, but it was a hard floor anyway.

LEVINE:

But in other words he was on the top bunk?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't, yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

Well my sister told me before I had the bottom bunk, but then my father came back from wherever he was, and he wanted the bottom bunk so my mother put me on the second bunk, above him. And then the sea, after a while, we were out to sea for a while it got rough.

MICHALOWSKI:

Maybe you want to turn over too.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, maybe I don't know. But I don't even remember falling, I don't remember anything until we arrived in Bristol. Yeah, I don't know anything at all. All I remember on board ship was I had a harmonica and I dropped the harmonica into one of the vents on the ship. You know a pipe that comes in, I pushed it in there and that's all I remember.

MICHALOWSKI:

Why did you do that?

WALCZEWSKI:

And I didn't remember falling though. Well I had the harmonica, I don't know I threw it away.

MICHALOWSKI:

But, he was unconscious for a long time and all. He was lucky he came out of it.

LEVI NE:

So do you remember when he fell?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And he was on the floor and everything? And then what happened?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well my mother, you know, called for help and all and they took him to the hospital.

LEVINE:

And so, was he in the hospital, was there a hospital on the ship or was there a doctor area?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well there was a, you know people taking care that, yeah.

LEVINE:

So he was on, in the medical facility, whatever it was on the ship first.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. Then when we got to Ellis Island they put him in the hospital.

LEVINE:

Now what happened? Could the family, did the family have to stay on Ellis Island as long as Carl was in the hospital? I see so the family was at Ellis Island for a month and a half?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Wow. Oh so you really got to know Ellis Island.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, but it's different now, the buildings different, yeah.

LEVINE:

I see. And then your brother was unconscious for some time before they released him?

MICHALOWSKI:

But he got good care. They took care of him you know.

LEVINE:

Could you go visit him?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

Wow. But, so was he unconscious like most of that month and a half?

MICHALOWSKI:

No, he wasn't, not that long. But he was you know, from beginning he was.

LEVINE:

I see. So do you remember if your mother and father were worried?

MICHALOWSKI:

Very much. And then they were undecided if they should send us back, you know. And then they didn't know what to do with me. And so they let him stay and then when he got well we took, we went to Bristol. That's where the family was.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. So what was, can you describe a typical day on Ellis Island?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know. It was fun, I enjoyed it. We're playing all the time, running around the place and all.

LEVINE:

Do you remember a play area up on the roof?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

That was fenced in? Uh huh. Were there a lot of other children?

MICHALOWSKI:

There was. Not a lot, but you know, we got along.

LEVINE:

And were there other children you could speak to in Polish?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well even if we couldn't speak we got along you know. Motions and all. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

And do you remember anything about the food?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well it's very good compared to what we're used to. Yeah it was very good. We liked it.

LEVINE:

So, okay so then you, how did you get to Bristol?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think they came after us.

LEVINE:

Your father's brother?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

In a car? A train? How did you get here do you remember?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know. I don't remember. I think he had a truck or something. But we came to Bristol.

LEVINE:

And what was he doing, your uncle.

MICHALOWSKI:

Well he was a farmer. He had a farm. So you know he had cattle and all the animals and all, yeah. So we stayed there, I don't know, for a week or so and then we got an apartment.

LEVINE:

In Bristol.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And did your father go right to work?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well he had to have a job to come here. The brother got him a job in a factory.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh huh. And what kind of factory? Do you remember?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know, but he worked in Bristol Brass for a long time.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, he was a molder in the Bristol Brass. In the casting shop.

LEVINE:

Oh. I see, I see. And then did he just, did he stay at that for quite some time?

MICHALOWSKI:

Then when we came to New Britain he got a job in New Britain, Stanley Works.

LEVINE:

Stanley Works?

MICHALOWSKI:

Stanley Works. Yeah and he worked there.

LEVINE:

What was that?

MICHALOWSKI:

What do you mean?

LEVINE:

What did you say, Stanley?

MICHALOWSKI:

Stanley. S-T-A-N

WALCZEWSKI:

They make tools. Pliers, screwdrivers. Drills, conference...

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. Well he worked where they had that steel come in, in the big round, and he had, I don't know what he did with that. With that steel. It was a hard job he had.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

But it was the same kind of thing.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

He would mold, or something of making these tools?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well there he worked on incoming raw material to make the tools out of.

LEVINE:

I see.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. Receiving room you know? Shipping, receiving.

LEVINE:

So Carl what's your first memory of Bristol? In Bristol. Did you, did you start school there? Do you remember?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think he was too young. I think you started school in New Britain.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

New Britain okay. Do you have any memories of Bristol at all? I know you were still very young , so maybe you don't.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah not too much in Bristol. I started kindergarten in New Britain I remember.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay, okay. Well now Anna do you remember, were there a lot of immigrant families in Bristol? Do you remember that?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well just our relatives. You know, that's all there were.

LEVINE:

When you were in school were you one of the few who had come from Europe? Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

I was the only one in my class, yeah. It's not like today. We have a town full of foreigners, yeah.

LEVINE:

Well how would you compare the school you went to in Poland with the school you went to when you got to Bristol?

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't know, there wasn't any difference. I was way ahead of the classes here, you know. But other than that I couldn't see any difference. Only they spoke different language, that's about it.

LEVINE:

Do you know what helped you to learn English? Do you know . . ?

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh just listening to other people and children, and you know. We didn't have a radio or TV like today it'd be easy. But just you know, I was very anxious to learn because I didn't like the way I was treated you know.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, yeah. So, let's see. Can you think of any things those first days, months, weeks in Bristol that were new, things that you saw or heard that were new to you? Different?

MICHALOWSKI:

Everything was new to me. Everything.

LEVINE:

Anything that struck you in particular about?

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh just a lot of everything, and food, and you know everything. It was just . . .

LEVINE:

An abundance.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes. Very good.

LEVINE:

Yeah, okay, so. So what were the ramifications of your fall? What, as a result of that fall, what were the after effects?

MICHALOWSKI:

It didn't bother him after he came out of the hospital. He seemed normal and you know it didn't bother him at all. He didn't know about it either. Until now he's getting older, he wants to know what happened.

LEVINE:

Didn't you mention in your in your letter that you stuttered for a while?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh for a, yeah. Well I think that was, it wasn't so much to the fall. I think it was more the, my family broke up. My mother and father ended, and I think that had a lot to do with it too.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Well that happened with a lot of people who immigrated. The families didn't stay together and. . .

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh my father stayed. My mother had the twins at the, the last ones. And she didn't want any more children, so she decided on a divorce.

LEVINE:

Oh. ( she laughs )

MICHALOSKI:

Seven children.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh. So what happened then? Did you, did you children go with your mother? Or . . .

MICHALOWSKI:

We stayed with the mother, yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

So, let's see. Is there anything else? Do you think, do you think the divorce had anything to do with the fact that your mother and father, had come here and it was a different culture, and they probably didn't learn English.

MICHALOWSKI:

That, no. This was years and years later. It was much later.

WALCZEWSKI:

That was, divorces at that time were rare and only the movie stars would divorce at that time.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, I was fifteen years old when they got a divorce. So you know that was quite a . . .

WALCZEWSKI:

They made us, made us feel very insecure when, yeah. END OF SIDE A BEGINNING SIDE B

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. And it was very hard. My mother didn't know how to manage or anything, you know.

LEVINE:

Did she learn English?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah she, she went to night school and all. She learned English to read and write and all that. My father learned on his own, and he was building houses and all. He'd draw up the plans, and he'd do business with all the people that had to work you know. And he got along, he did very well.

LEVINE:

This was after he left the factory?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yes, yes.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh. Well is that when you started stuttering, Carl? Was it around the time of the divorce?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think.

LEVINE:

Or had you been stuttering, stuttering before that?

WALCZEWSKI:

Afterwards, then Mother would, didn't take care of us, I'd go to school with a dirty shirt or torn pants, or whatever, the kids would all look at me, so when I had to get up to recite I couldn't even talk.

MICHALOWSKI:

But I know as a child he was fine, you know. But it upset the whole, all of us. All of us it affected. And my father didn't like it either. He wanted to come back, but she wouldn't take him.

LEVINE:

Do you think it had to do, you mentioned it, it says Hebrew on your ship's manifest. Do you think that fact that your father was a Catholic and probably, maybe wanted to keep having more children that your mother did that?

MICHALOWSKI:

No it wasn't. Any child they had, it was just, happened you know. It wasn't planned or anything. It just, they didn't have birth control in those days or anything like that at all.

LEVINE:

Well, so then did your mother have to work or?

MICHALOWSKI:

She couldn't work, she didn't know anything. You know, she just in the house with all those children. So, but she didn't, towards the end she was a wreck. You know. She was like today we would say, she had Alzheimer's.

LEVINE:

Oh, when she got older you mean.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

I see. So, is there anything else about the fall from the bunk that you've heard, or that you remember, or that you've been told?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well I just found out about it just a year ago when my sister told me. Cause I had a vague idea that something had happened, but I didn't know what. Then my sister told me I fell out of the bunk, on the floor. And that's all I, I don't even remember falling or anything.

MICHALOWSKI:

But he had good care because he came out very good, you know.

LEVINE:

Yeah I imagine the nurses were very nice to a three-year-old.

WALCZEWSKI:

Well I got the evidence, my head comes to like a point in the back.

MICHALOWSKI:

It's your imagination. ( she laughs )

WALCZEWSKI:

It's there! You could feel it if you want to. I thought I was born that way but then when I found out about, about the fall that's where it came from.

MICHALOWSKI:

But he's eighty-three years old, he can't complain.

WALCZEWSKI:

No! But I just want to know.

LEVINE:

You're just interested to know.

WALCZEWSKI:

What had happened, and what they did for me in the hospital.

MICHALOVSKYI:

They did very well.

WALCZEWSKI:

There's nothing you could do now.

LEVINE:

No, well I told you I'll try to track down whatever I can from the Public Health Services historian.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. I remember in school, some days I would learn immediately. I used to get a hundred sometimes. Other days I was sort of like stupid.

LEVINE:

And do you think that was a result of the fall? I mean in hindsight?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think....

WALCZEWSKI:

It might have been. I think it might have been.

MICHALOWSKI:

I think it's the conditions at home too. What happened the night before and all. But he's very bright, he's a TV technician. He was a toolmaker, in work all those years. And he can fix anything you know, he's very talented.

LEVINE:

Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. So it didn't, the fall didn't interfere with his knowledge or anything.

LEVINE:

Well it sounds like you were very affected by your mother and father too.

MICHALOWSKI:

I think so. Not the father so much because he wanted to stay, you know. He wanted to stay in the house, but she wouldn't take him. But she couldn't manage. I would go to work in the morning, nothing to eat. I'd run home, my girlfriend lived upstairs, we lived in a three family house. She lived on the second floor and I lived on the first floor. And we lived about, that's a good mile or more, from Arch Street to Ward Street.

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh yeah it's a good mile.

MICHALOWSKI:

And during lunch hour we would run all the way home. She would come down, and she had a good lunch, and she'd have a pear or a banana, eating. And I'd come home, there's nothing! I'd take a glass of water and I'd run back.

LEVINE:

Now this was when you were working, when you were finished with school.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. I didn't finish . .

WALCZEWSKI:

We'd get help from the city though. We'd have to go pick up the food and the oil for the stove. We had a hungry . .

LEVINE:

Oh.

MICHALOWSKI:

And when my father was home, we had everything. We had good food on the table, we needed any clothes or anything he would buy them for us and all. But after he went, she didn't know how to manage.

LEVINE:

So now what year was that? That they spilt up.

MICHALOWSKI:

When the boys were babies.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah that...

LEVINE:

The twins?

MICHALOWSKI:

So that'd beover seventy years, over seventy...

WALCZEWSKI:

1932 I'd say. '31 or '32.

MICHALOSKI:

The boys are seventy-three. Or they're gonna be seventy-three?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well they're, I'm about maybe, maybe ten years older than they are.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

How old were you? Do you remember Carl? How old you were when they broke up?

MICHALOWSKI:

'Bout ten.

WALCZEWSKI:

Ten about. About ten.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. 1930 say. 1931.

LEVINE:

I see so you were already sixteen. You were out of school then, by the time, uh huh.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So.

MICHALOWSKI:

But you know there were seven of us. And we all did well. We all have our own place, nobody ever got arrested for anything. Nobody drinks, nobody smokes and we can't complain, you know. We had it hard but we appreciate what we have now.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Now how about any ways, Polish ways that carry over in your life.

WALCZEWSKI:

Nothing.

LEVINE:

Nothing?

MICHALOWSKI:

Carl, we love pickled herrings. (she laughs) I always have a jar in the refrigerator. And we like Polish food. Goumki {ph.} and...

LEVINE:

Perogies.

MICHALOWSKI:

You know that stuff, yeah.

LEVINE:

So do you cook that kind of cooking?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. His wife makes it for him too. She's French.

LEVINE:

Oh!

MICHALOWSKI:

But she does good. And we can't complain we all turned out, you know not bums or jailed or anything. We all worked hard to take care of ourselves and all.

LEVINE:

When you think of yourself, how do you think of your Polish side and your American side? How do you think about yourself? Do you think you're Polish, do you think of yourself as Polish?

WALCZEWSKI:

No, no. Just, nationality I guess, that's all, Polish. Well now it's American of course, and we don't, don't even think about Poland. We had chances to go there with a group, but I never cared to go.

LEVINE:

Never cared to go.

WALCZEWSKI:

No.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh. How about you Anna, did you ever visit?

MICHALOWSKI:

No, I've never been there no.

LEVINE:

And do you, how do you think about yourself? Do you think about yourself as Polish as well as American?

MICHALOWSKI:

I think this is my country and I love it here. And I feel sorry for the people over there, you know. But I'm very happy here. And I could speak Polish, you know, if I have to. But I forgot a lot of it since my parents died because, that's all we had to talk to them is Polish. Even though they knew English, you know but after we only talk Polish. But after they died, I don't speak it. You know, get a chance to speak it much. But I know.

LEVINE:

But you feel like your mother and father would have rather, they really weren't anxious for you to become Americanized.

MICHALOWSKI:

No, not a bit.

LEVINE:

They have wanted you to stay more Polish.

MICHALOWSKI:

Polish yeah.

LEVINE:

So Carl what did you do? You went, how long did you stay in school, and then what did you do after you left?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well difficult when you get teased in school. I, I quit when I was sixteen, soon as I was able to. Then we worked out in the tobacco farms you know in the summer times.

LEVINE:

And then what did you get for your first job?

MICHALOWSKI:

He was in the service.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, and the first job was (pause) [? ] where they used to make hardware for, for trunks and different things. You know the corners to the shipping trunks. The locks and all that. That, that didn't last long, the job.

LEVINE:

And then?

WALCZEWSKI:

Then I went to like, like a technical school to learn machines, you know, machines.

LEVINE:

And what did you do after you finished that?

WALCZEWSKI:

I think I got another job in the shop in Southington, the Peckstow (?) I think it was called. And they made tools there too. And then after that, well I was already getting, getting to be about twenty or so. Then I met Helen and then . . .

LEVINE:

How did you meet your wife?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well she lived near the area where I lived. I used to live with an Italian woman. See before that I lived with my sister in Bristol, the one that was gonna come here. And then my younger sister needed a place, and she was younger so I had to leave. And my younger sister came in and took my place and of course my other sister got paid by the state for taking care of her and I was older so. I didn't have any place to go so my father built, built a house in Bristol so I had a, made a place for myself in the attic. And I stayed there for almost a year. And then these fellows I met in Bristol, they knew this Italian women that was, had boarders. She had one only and then I lived with her. I couldn't pay her but after I got the job I did pay her. It was only five dollars a week, room and board.

LEVINE:

What was it like being a boarder? I always hear about people who took in boarders, but I never heard from somebody who was a boarder. ( Michalowski laughs ) What was it like there?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well she was a nice lady. My wife knew her. Carcasio {ph.}

LEVINE:

And she, and what? You stayed there?

WALCZEWSKI:

I stayed there.

LEVINE:

And she gave you dinner and . . ?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. There was a fellow on the first floor had a little store there and she used to get a lot of like, greens from him and stuff he was going to throw out. She took it in. She was, course I had I had to change over to Italian, Italian foods.

MICHALOWSKI:

During the Depression it was very hard.

WALCZEWSKI:

I was kind of burning from all those hot peppers. ( they laugh ) Then we met Helen and then we you know, tried to make a home for ourselves. And then I, then I had to go into the, we got married in '41. And then a few months later I had to go in the service.

LEVINE:

So how did the Depression affect you and your family? You gonna go?

MICHALOWSKI:

I'm going in the bathroom.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay go ahead. I'll keep going with Carl.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

I thought you were going to keep talking.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, so it, it was tough. Like my sister had mentioned my mother used to get fifteen dollars a week for our support and that was a lot of money then. But she had a boyfriend, she gave it to him. And he used to send the money to Poland to his wife and two kids. And we had to go relief. The city was feeding us.

LEVINE:

You mean the fifteen dollars came from your father?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. But she gave it to the boyfriend. And then of course during the war they were all killed by the bombing.

LEVINE:

Oh.

WALCZEWSKI:

So uh (pause). .then uh...

LEVINE:

Why don't tell me about the, about your, the part you played during World War II? What branch of the military did you go into?

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh I was in the Signal Core. Because I had some, some experience with radios and stuff like that.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. Is the Signal Corps, was that the Army? Or what it ...?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, no, that was part of the 7 th Armored Division. And we were attached to it, Signal Corps.

LEVINE:

So where were you sent?

WALCZEWSKI:

Louisiana.

LEVINE:

So did you ever go overseas during World War II?

WALCZEWSKI:

No, no. Yeah I got a discharge I think because of my nerves.

LEVINE:

Oh really?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

What would you be signaling? ( loud noises on the microphone ) Let me just adjust this so it gets ( loud noises continue ) So what would you be signaling?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well I used to, used to service the radio and repair.

LEVINE:

Oh repairing the radio, I see.

WALCZEWSKI:

When it went out of order we could send them back to us or we could go out there. If we couldn't repair them there, we would give them another unit, take out the defective unit, bring it back to our shop.

LEVINE:

I see.

WALCZEWSKI:

And repair it there.

LEVNE:

I see, I see. But your nerves kind of went on you during the service?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

Yeah, uh huh, oh. So when you got out, then what? Then you were already married, were you?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, yes. Yeah they gave me 10% disability.

LEVINE:

Oh. So.

WALCZEWSKI:

And then I, then I went, where (pause) Then after that I think, forget where I. . . Then I got this job with this fella that ran slot machines, pinball machines. And I worked there for about a year. But the hours weren't too good, ten o'clock in the morning to ten o'clock at night. And that was no job for like a married man so. My wife complained so then I quit and I went to . . .TV started to come out and I went to a technical school in Hartford.

LEVINE:

To learn about TV's?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah. Then I got a job in a store, but then I seen there's no future in it. So I went back to the machine work, and I got a job at General Motors. And I've been there ever since.

LEVINE:

Oh.

WALCZEWSKI:

Till I retired. (pause) Yeah I worked there about thirty-nine years.

LEVINE:

And was General Motors good to you? Do you feel like, you glad that you worked there?

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh yeah, very good, yeah. Very good. They wanted me to stay another year 'til they shut the doors. We didn't want, my wife and I, no use. I was already seventy-four.

LEVINE:

Oh! Uh huh.

WALCZEWSKI:

I figured that was enough.

LEVINE:

Yeah. So Anna what about you? What did you do? You went to work?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well I worked in a shirt factory until I got married. And then I had the baby and I didn't work anymore.

LEVINE:

I see. So could you say anymore about how the Depression affected you and your family?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well it didn't affect us. We just knew it, nobody had anything. You know we were all the same. The neighbors, and all. The men would go out fishing and then bring it home. We'd all, the women would make the fish and we'd get potatoes. And we'd all, you know eat together and all. But we managed, we were happy. We didn't know that things could be different you know.

LEVINE:

Uh huh, uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

So now after we got, you know after the Depression when we got little money coming in and all, we didn't throw it away. We saved it. And then we bought our own homes, and send the kids to school and all. My daughter graduated with a master's degree, and my son did very well. He had his own telecommunication business. He died since.

LEVINE:

Oh.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah. But you know, we appreciate everything we have and we have a value on everything.

LEVINE:

Do you think that comes from coming from another place and coming here?

MICHALOWSKI:

No. It just, from me being poor, and then when you get something you appreciate it more. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Let's see. What about, what would you say, can you remember the build up to World War II? And anything else about the Second World War? Anything that you experienced?

MICHALOWSKI:

Well like we had to pull our shades down at night so no light would come out. Or we had to put the lights out. So they, from the air they couldn't see a light where they would, you know, drop bombs or something. And we were rationing butter. You couldn't buy, and coffee, and sugar, and meat even. Everything was hard to buy. So we had, like myself, we had a backyard. We had vegetables and we had our own chickens, so we had plenty of eggs and chickens, you know meat. And then we had the vegetables in the garden. You know we tried to help ourselves to have everything, yeah.

LEVINE:

So did you have children Carl? When you went off to Louisiana?

WALCZEWSKI:

No.

LEVINE:

Oh you didn't have any children.

WALCZEWSKI:

No.

LEVINE:

I see, uh huh. So, do you have any idea what it was that brought on your, your nervousness when you were . . .?

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh the constant, the constant strain all the time.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

We used to go on long hikes, and after hikes about five miles I'd be all tired out. I couldn't go any further.

LEVINE:

Uh huh. So it was like almost exhaustion.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Stress, a lot of stress.

LEVINE:

Was there a lot of stress on you to, to work? And get these radios out?

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

But we had a very hard time when my, with, you know with my mother. It was very hard. She didn't, I would go to bed seven o'clock, I'd be so exhausted. You know, working six, all those hours and nothing, no food. I didn't know, you know you cold go to a restaurant and get a meal or anything. I didn't have the money anyway. I'd go to bed very early and go back, and be ready for seven o'clock, start working again. Then twelve o'clock we'd run down to, over a mile and run back and --I survived I'm surprised. I weighed about eighty pounds. Yeah. And I didn't know the difference. You know, after you don't eat a while you don't feel hungry. So. ( she laughs ) For supper I'd come home and she would just start making it. And we have a, a big reservoir where we'd go swimming everyday. And we would walk quite a while there too. And we'd go swim all evening, and then come home. You know, go to bed. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Wow, so that was, that was all in the thirties I guess?

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, yeah. It was in the thirties.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Because I got married in '32.

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah, or '34. Yeah '34 I got married, yeah.

LEVINE:

Well what would you say was the high point of your life? Each of you.

MICHALOWSKI:

I think when my father left the house. You know we just fall apart because we had everything when my father was home. He'd always bring stuff home and all. And he, he would worry you know, he took care of us and all. But my mother lost all interest. She was just interested in the twins. And after, she let them go too because Mary, the sister that was after him she took over, she didn't have no children. And she raised them. She looked after them and all. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And how about the high point of your life? What would you say has happened in your life that gave you a lot of satisfaction?

WALCZEWSKI:

Wow.

MICHALOWSKI:

Today you could look back and you're doing real well.

WALCZEWSKI:

I guess the day we got married.

LEVINE:

Oh. ( they all laugh )

WALCZEWSKI:

Made my wife smile a little bit. No, she's not smiling. I wanted a home. I didn't have a home really. I was with this Italian woman, you know she was very good to me. And I paid back every nickel I owed her. Then I bought my wife, my girlfriend, a hope chest at that time. And we were foolish for putting our money into it. And the other people living there stole our money. So uh.

LEVINE:

Why don't you mention your wife's name and maiden name for the tape?

WALCZEWSKI:

Uh Helen Sherman. That's her stepfather's name. Her real father was Simoneau.

LEVINE:

Can you spell it?

WALCZEWSKI:

S-I-M-O-N-E-A-U.

LEVINE:

And do you have children?

WALCZEWSKI:

He had, yeah my wife has brothers and sisters.

MICHALOWSKI:

No your children.

LEVINE:

No you, did you have children?

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh yeah we had a couple already.

MICHALOWSKI:

They had five all together.

LEVINE:

Oh, five. Uh huh.

MICHALOWSKI:

And they're all doing well too.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

His son is, on the computer he's an expert. On the computers.

WALCZEWSKI:

He works for the state, so.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

Two sons work for the state.

MICHALOWSKI:

And they're all doing real good.

WALCZEWSKI:

That's the only jobs that are secure I guess. Or even then they're not that secure today.

LEVINE:

Well is there anything, maybe each of you know ( loud noise makes dialogue unable to be heard ) could say what your reaction was to the 9/11 bombings.

MICHALOWSKI:

I thought they were advertising a movie! I had the radio playing, I was in the kitchen, and I heard all that. And I was thinking they're advertising a movie. And then when I kept, I put the TV on, I couldn't believe it. How, our own airplanes! That they came over with their planes, but our own planes. They knock our own, I couldn't believe it.

LEVINE:

Yeah, yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

I mean how could they get away with that?

LEVINE:

How about you Carl? Do you remember how you responded when you heard about it?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well I felt bad about it. That all those, you know people were killed and

MICHALOWSKI:

I was watching

WALCZEWSKI:

they were all working, and they're all innocent, and

MICHALOWSKI:

That was an awful thing, awful. I blame our government for letting them get away with it.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah.

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh that was terrible. With our own planes! That's what hurts, you know? Ohhh, they didn't even have to waste their own. Ohhh.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

Right. Well now is there anything else that either of you would like to say for the tape before we close? Anything about coming to this country, about your life here, anything that maybe I haven't thought about to ask.

MICHALOWSKI:

Well I could say that this is the best county in the world and I'm very happy to be here. And I wish everybody could live as well as we do here. Yeah.

LEVINE:

How about you Carl? Do you any closing statements?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well, I'm happy you interviewed us and maybe you're acting like a psychologist to get some of this stuff off our minds. But to get it all you'd have to spend another two hours.

MICHALOWSKI:

Oh no. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Yeah, well what I'm thinking is maybe we can get you, you're information possibly.

MICHALOWSKI:

Medical.

LEVINE:

From the Public Health Service. And hopefully

WALCZEWSKI:

Oh yeah that would be good. Just for

MICHALOWSKI:

Your own satisfaction.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, to see what they did for me to. I guess they must have put my head back together like a puzzle, you know. Fit the pieces back.

MICHALOWSKI:

I don't think.

WALCZEWSKI:

That's why I got the lump there on top.

MICHALOWSKI:

I know you had a big cut.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah? It must have been bleeding a lot.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

I don't remember anything about that though.

MICHALOWSKI:

You wouldn't remember today if somebody hit you over the head like that and you were bleeding.

LEVINE:

Yeah, and especially when you're three years old, you wouldn't really remember that.

WALCZEWSKI:

I think that affected me a lot though, that fall.

MICHALOWSKI:

But Ma and Pa breaking up affected you more. Because I was already you know, fifteen years old and. I was, in a way I was happy because my father was very strict and this way my mother didn't care. I could go out and come back whenever I wanted.

LEVINE:

One last question. Did you or your family members have any involvement in Polish social clubs?

MICHALOWSKI:

No.

LEVINE:

In this country?

MICHALOWSKI:

No.

WALCZEWSKI:

No, just I, I belonged to the PNA for a while, but.

MICHALOWSKI:

He did, yeah.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, like Polish National Association, yeah. But it turned it's more like a bar to drink that's all. And they have a monthly meeting you know, and but. It was more or less like for drinking.

LEVINE:

I see.

WALCZEWSKI:

So I didn't, I didn't care much for that.

LEVINE:

And did you keep up your Catholic religion in this country?

MICHALOWSKI:

My children went to a Catholic school right through and all.

LEVINE:

Yeah. How about you Carl, did you stay a devout Catholic?

MICHALOWSKI:

He goes

WALCZEWSKI:

Well not so much. There's, there's I am there making the first Communion, that was enough. (shows a picture ) Nine, eight or nine.

MICHALOWSKI:

Pa was still home when you did that.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, that was.

MICHALOWSKI:

Because after that you wouldn't

WALCZEWSKI:

It's there all the time (referring to the framed photograph), you know. I didn't put it out because you came but it's there always.

MICHALOWSKI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

But you, so you didn't remain an active Catholic, but you went the Communion?

WALCZEWSKI:

Well we got to St. Jerome.

LEVINE:

Oh you do.

WALCZEWSKI:

Yeah, I go. I used to take my son with me but when he turned fourteen or so he quit. He wouldn't go anymore.

LEVINE:

I see.

WALCZEWSKI:

And then the grandchildren were living with us. I used to take the grandchildren too, but. END OF INTERVIEW