SIGRIST:

Good morning, this is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. Today is Sunday, January 31, 1993, Superbowl Sunday, a very snowy Sunday I might also add. I'm here in West Winfield, New York, in central New York State with Winifred Hughes and her brother Llewelyn Ephraim. They came from Wales in 1912. Mrs. Hughes was five at that time, and Mr. Ephraim as three and one half. Hi, hello.

HUGHES:

Oh, hello, yes. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Let me begin with, Mrs. Hughes can you give me your full name, with your maiden name please.

HUGHES:

Winifred Ephraim Hughes.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell Ephraim for me?

HUGHES:

E-P-H-R-A-I-M.

SIGRIST:

And what is your date of birth?

HUGHES:

April 19, 1907.

SIGRIST:

Mr. Ephraim, can you give me your full name please?

EPHRAIM:

Llewelyn Ephraim.

SIGRIST:

And can you spell Llewelyn for us.

EPHRAIM:

L-L-E-W-E-L-Y-N

SIGRIST:

And what is your date of birth, sir?

EPHRAIM:

(Hughes answering for her brother) 10/4/1908.

SIGRIST:

October fourth, 1908. Let me begin by asking, were you born in the same place?

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What was the name of the town?

HUGHES:

Blaenau Ffestiniog.

SIGRIST:

Oh dear, can you spell that please?

HUGHES:

B-L-A-E-N-A-U F-F-E-S-T-I-N-I-O-G

SIGRIST:

Can you tell me where about in Wales that is?

HUGHES:

Well, North Wales, you know. I don't know as I can say. It isn't so terribly far from Caernarfon, you know.

SIGRIST:

But it is in the North.

HUGHES:

In the North, it's North Wales, yes.

SIGRIST:

Do you have memories, both of you, of what that looks like? Mr. Ephraim, you were so young.

EPHRAIM:

I haven't, no.

HUGHES:

I do.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe for me what the town looked like.

HUGHES:

Well, I don't, ah the town, of course, it was made out of a mountain, and so it's very mountainous there. Rows of houses, you know, and the street with iron fences, and sometimes you'd see sheep coming down from the mountain and going along the street. One day, I remember there was a women left her gate open, these two sheep went right in and ate up all of her flower boxes. (she chuckles) Yes, the flowers. But around our home the last recollection I had was when we were getting ready, I was getting dressed, you know, for the trip and then my parents said well, now why don't you go out in the yard and play awhile. Maybe they thought, you know, that I would remember something. And I looked up at the mountain and there was this one sheep way up on the top clinging. I don't see how they ever, ever made there but there was that one. That's what I remember.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe your house for me, what the house looked like. In words, please.

HUGHES:

Yes, it was a stone house and let me see, it was a, that house was called the large house, the name was Cae Canol,C-A-E C-A-N-O-L and there was a little home right down at the foot of the yard that was the same. It was a very replica of the big house that our grandparents used to live in. We had, of course it was a small farm and there was a barn there of course down below.

SIGRIST:

What did the inside of the house look like?

HUGHES:

The inside, I don't know so much about it, only there was slate floor in some parts and a great big fireplace and oven. Other than that I can't remember to much about it. Outside I can remember there was a great big round place built up with stone and when they used to make butter you see and sell, they had a little horse, little pony that would go back and forth to churn that butter. And when I made the trip in '75 over there, that was still up there in good shape.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what the room you slept in looked like?

HUGHES:

No, I really don't. No, I don't.

SIGRIST:

You remember the outside.

HUGHES:

Yes, I remember the outside. It looked very much just as it does in that picture. We had, of course, stone walls, lots of stone walls. Lots around that house and all that. And of course because they have so many sheep over there, most of those lots were filled with sheep. But their, I will say their stone walls were up in nice shape. They were not falling down, and I see that on our last trip there that they were still up and in good shape. And this home is still up.

SIGRIST:

Did you live in town or outside of town?

HUGHES:

Outside, just a little ways outside.

SIGRIST:

What was your dad's name?

HUGHES:

Joseph Ephraim.

SIGRIST:

And what did he do for a living?

HUGHES:

He was a quarry man. He worked in the quarries and he kept a hired man to take care of the farm.

SIGRIST:

So he had a farm and a job.

HUGHES:

Yes, right.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe for me, or you too Mr. Ephraim if you remember, him talking about this, the kinds of things he did in the mines?

HUGHES:

No, I really don't know that. I don't know. I can remember them saying that, you know, they always came up, they never took much time for dinner, but they all came up and sang. That was the big thing over there you know, a song. And no I don't remember other than that.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe your father in words for me without using the photograph, if you closed your eyes?

HUGHES:

Well, he was quite a tall man, good man. He loved to sing and sang all of his life, I guess. I used to say to him sometime, well, "You shouldn't do so much singing because you'll get all tired out." With I smile he'd say, "Well, I suppose I'll sing until I die." That's what he did, you know, because he had a group of people over there called a Band of Hope that he used to teach in singing. This, when he went over there on one of his trips, one of these people invited him to their house, you know, and they had planned an evening, you know, inviting some in for supper and having sort of a concert in the evening. He, of course sang, sang until it was about eleven o'clock before he said, "Well now I've got to go to bed." And so he went, and the next morning they didn't hear anything out of him, and this lady went up and found that he had past away.

SIGRIST:

Is music very important to Welsh people?

HUGHES:

Oh very, that's the, they call it the Land of Song, I think. And I think they had the privilege of getting together with those who real musicians, you know, to show them how to do it.

SIGRIST:

They took it very seriously.

HUGHES:

Yes, I remember my father, our father sang as a soloist one time when David Lloyd George, Prime Minister, was coming there to speak around that time and he was the soloist.

SIGRIST:

Was your mother musical?

HUGHES:

Oh yes.

SIGRIST:

What was her name?

HUGHES:

Elizabeth Margaret Jones.

SIGRIST:

So Jones was her maiden name.

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What was your mother's temperament like? Actually let me ask Mr. Ephraim that, he might remember later on. What was her personality like?

EPHRAIM:

Well, I don't, I guess...

HUGHES:

He probably don't remember much about...

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about your mother and her personality?

HUGHES:

She was a very calm person, you know, and well, they were both Christian people and she missed most as she used to say, the seashore, after coming to America. They used to be by the sea so much of the time.

SIGRIST:

Is that where the town was, by the sea?

HUGHES:

Well, you could see the ocean from our home, part of it, you know, part of it.

SIGRIST:

Would they vacation at the ocean, or go?

HUGHES:

Oh, yes, they, well, you know, it wasn't too far, whichever way you wanted to travel to go to the seashore.

SIGRIST:

Do you have a memory of being a little girl in Wales connected with the seashore?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't. No, I really don't. No, I don't, but I'm sure that we were there often.

SIGRIST:

You said that your grandparents lived in the smaller house down the way. Is this your mother's family or your father's?

HUGHES:

My father's family.

SIGRIST:

What were their names?

HUGHES:

I know the women's name was Ann Ephraim, but I don't know now what the grandfather's name was.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about your grandparents, being a little girl?

HUGHES:

I don't remember a thing, because I don't think that they were living then when we were born. But, anyway, it must be that my grandfather had died and then his mother went to live with him in the big house. This was before they were married, of course. And I had, was thinking about this incident when this man came to the door one night and he had a basket in his hand and some knives in it, and he wanted to know if, of our father if he could leave them on our porch while he went up on the mountain and he said yes. But as he was talking with him he looked down and he saw some blood on a knife. He said "Well, why don't we take this basket to the barn?" and he said, "Yes, that would be alright." So they went down to the barn, and on the way down he said, "My wife is up on the mountain, very, very, sick." "Well," my father said to him, "You go right back then." And he said, "Will you come up there with me?" and he said "Yes, but I'll come right away just as quick as I finish a few chores here, I'll be right up. But you go, you go ahead." So he went and then Father went, instead of going on the mountain, he ran down to the next village and got the police and went up there. And so there they found this, he had killed this women. And that was the first tragedy ever in that part of the country, they never had known anything about such a thing before.

SIGRIST:

Did that upset your father?

HUGHES:

What was that?

SIGRIST:

Did this whole incident upset your father?

HUGHES:

I don't think so, really, I don't think so. Of course, he became the first witness, you know, yes and this tragedy is all about, in the national library in Wales, in Aberstwyth, A-B-E-R-S-T-W-Y-T-H.

SIGRIST:

Thank you. Can you describe for me what the farm entailed? What, like for instance, what animals you kept, or...

HUGHES:

I really don't know too much about that. We had a few, a very few cows, I don't know how many. And we had some ponies, you know, because sometimes our children would ride the ponies.

SIGRIST:

What was your favorite thing to do on the farm as a little girl?

HUGHES:

Well, I think running was a great part of it. I think that's what I was doing the last day, running around the house. When I looked up at that mountain, I know that the four of us children was out in this lot one day, and my brother, my older brother, who has past away now, said the one that comes here the fastest can have a silver spoon. And we ran for all there was in us and I ran right into this stone, cut my head real bad, and I still have little bit of a, you know, scar there above my eye. That was it. I think running was a great part of our life.

SIGRIST:

Would you say that you were a very athletic little girl?

HUGHES:

Well, I think so, yes I think so.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember games that you might have played in Wales?

HUGHES:

I just can't remember much about that really. Of course, I didn't go to school there, (gesturing to her brother) neither did Dick. But my other sister and brother, they did, go to...

SIGRIST:

What were their names?

HUGHES:

That was Evan Richard Ephraim.

SIGRIST:

That's E-V-A-N.

HUGHES:

Yes, and Elizabeth Ephraim.

SIGRIST:

So you're the third child.

HUGHES:

Yes, right.

SIGRIST:

And your brother's the fourth child.

HUGHES:

Right.

SIGRIST:

What can you tell me a little about what church life was like in Wales?

HUGHES:

Yes, I think so, we had two churches that we went to really, one especially not far from the house, on the way to the village. And there's where our Sunday school was and we called that Penyall. And then there was another church in the village, and I can't think of that name.

SIGRIST:

Were your parents religious people?

HUGHES:

Yes they were.

SIGRIST:

Who was more religious, your mother or your father?

HUGHES:

Well, I think they both were. When we came to this country, why we went to a Welsh church and Father taught the men's class and Mother taught the women's class.

SIGRIST:

In Wales, as a little girl do you remember any way that you practiced your religion at home?

UGHES:

Well, my father used to read the Bible to us most every night and he used to have us singing a lot, too. And we used to go to church about three times a day, you know, morning, afternoon, and evening. And we would walk, we would go down and over the stone walls and to church.

SIGRIST:

What was the denomination?

HUGHES:

Well, Presbyterian, well and Father was Methodist too, before that.

SIGRIST:

Would you say most people in Wales were Methodist or Presbyterian?

HUGHES:

I think so yes, yes I think so.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about what food Welsh people eat. What foods do you remember your mother making for you in Wales.

HUGHES:

Well, I think the thing that ever remember the most about was the plum puddings, you know, plum puddings. Oh, what else...

SIGRIST:

How would your mother make a plum pudding? How would your mother do that?

HUGHES:

Well, you have apples ground up and raisins, currents, suet, flour, eggs and that was it, I think.

SIGRIST:

How was it cooked?

HUGHES:

It was boiled for quite a few hours. And sometimes, when it was served at Christmas time, they would pour a little bit of brandy or something on it and set it on fire before it would come to table. (she laughs) My mother was a cook, she was good at that.

SIGRIST:

Oh, what other things do you remember her cooking in Wales?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know what it was, but she used to make something for us children, if we'd been outdoors, you know, and she thought we needed something before our mealtime. She'd make something like a custard. It was made with little, it was milk and eggs and a little bread and sugar, I suppose but it was almost like a pudding, but it was good.

SIGRIST:

Did you eat much meat in Wales?

HUGHES:

Well, of course, we had lamb a lot, you know. And, yes I think we always had meat.

SIGRIST:

Did you buy, was there a store were your mother could buy provisions, or was most of this grown on the farm?

HUGHES:

Yes. Well, I think we went and got it mostly to town, you know. Yes.

SIGRIST:

Was that a big event, going to town to go shopping.

HUGHES:

Well, I can't remember that really, I don't know whether we went too much, you know, or whether the folks did it. You know, maybe my father did a lot of it.

SIGRIST:

Who really wanted to come to America?

HUGHES:

I think that they both really did. Father thought that he didn't want to see these boys working in quarries because he said that was a very dangerous job. And then my mother had two sisters here that had been here for some years and she was getting anxious to see them again, so I think that was, those were the reasons that they came.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember any stories that your father may have even told in later years, about working in the mines, did he ever talk about that or talk about anything that happened in the mines?

HUGHES:

No, I don't think so, except I do remember him saying one time that they had a man that had his leg cut right off, you know, it was dangerous work and I guess, I don't know. I just don't know too much more than that.

SIGRIST:

Was your brother, your oldest brother, was he old enough to have been working?

HUGHES:

No, he was not, no, not, all small.

SIGRIST:

So the kids were fairly close.

HUGHES:

Yes, four of us.

SIGRIST:

Okay, I see. Do you remember as a little girl in Wales what you knew about America.

HUGHES:

I don't think I knew a thing about America. I think it must have been a great undertaking for any family to start out and not know where they were going to be. No, I don't remember a thing about it.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how you felt when your mother and father said, "We are leaving out home."

HUGHES:

Well, I don't really know, no, I can't even remember that. But I just think they wanted me to go out in the yard and play, to see if I could remember something.

SIGRIST:

Sort of something that sticks in your mind.

HUGHES:

Yes, that's what I think.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember if any of your neighbors or family gave you a little party or something before you left?

HUGHES:

Yes, yes, well, I don't know about the parties, I can't remember that, but we were great friends with the people next door to us, their names were John Davis, family. But, we used to go there often, they come back to our place often, and they're the ones that had our place when we left. And we've always, always communicated with them by letter, ever since we been here. When I was back in `75, of course, I had the pleasure of meeting these people again.

SIGRIST:

Did they remember, was there someone there who might have remembered you as a little girl?

HUGHES:

Oh yes, yes, this, they remembered a great many things when, I don't know. One time we went down there, we were down there and I don't know, I guess, they were going to kill a pig (she laughs) or something and this, we were all there, must be this pig. We were all out in the yard, you know, playing, and this pig squealed or something and (gesturing to her brother) this one run way home and hid, got into the house somehow and hid under the sink in the cupboard. Well, you know, there was great excitement, they had to go looking for it. They finally found him there under the sink. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Do you remember any of that, Mr. Ephraim?

EPHRAIM:

Oh, I think I remember. I was thinking it run away and got in a ditch or something.

HUGHES:

(she laughs) I don't know that. (Mr. Ephraim laughs)

SIGRIST:

Did people in Wales wear a specific kind of costume, a specific kind of clothing that you can remember, that was different from the rest of the world, that was unique to them?

HUGHES:

Well, I think that was years and years ago, when they used to wear these big hats, you know, black hats, kind of pointed at the top, but that was years and years ago, even before our time, I guess.

SIGRIST:

So when you were there, they dressed just like everyone else.

HUGHES:

Yes, just like everyone else. Yes.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember as a little girl, having a favorite dress or a favorite hat? Or something along those lines?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know. I do think that I had a little green suit, velvet suit that I always liked. Well, we had a good lot of hair, all of us. My sister's hair was very curly, and well, my other brother's hair was curly too, and mine was more straight, or wavy. But my mother used to take great pains with our hair. She used to brush it and brush it, and when we came to America to go to school, they used to look at our hair and say, "Oh, look at that hair." And one boy that was sitting in back of my sister, took the scissors and cut off one of her curls. And that was what I can remember about that. We went to school, you see.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember in Wales, at all, any of the process of getting the papers or the passports or anything like that, that you might remember or your father talking about it or your mother talking about it?

HUGHES:

I don't think I can, of course, see, he went back in 1941, when the war was on. And he stayed at this John Davis place.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what you packed? Do you remember what you took with you?

HUGHES:

I don't know, but I thought it must be that we brought quite a few little things over. We a great big box built for some things, a wooden box. It was huge. But they must have had quite a lot in there. Then we had quite a lot of dishes, now, at home in the other house. We have, I still have that cupboard full of dishes that has not been brought up here.

SIGRIST:

And those were dishes that your mother had brought with you.

HUGHES:

Yes, from Wales.

SIGRIST:

What kind of dishes are they? Can you describe them?

HUGHES:

Well, they were, it was a set, dinner set, you know, and the cups are little different style than we have here today. And they were, had this gold design on them. They are very pretty really, and we had lots of other little dishes, you know, sugar bowls, pitchers that were kind of unusual. Rose colored.

SIGRIST:

You took a lot of stuff with you then in that box.

HUGHES:

Oh yes, we did, and I remember we had tongs by our fireplace brought, and a copper, little copper kettle that we used to use on the fire to cook with. I don't know.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember taking something with you that was yours. Like a doll or a little toy of some sort that you...

HUGHES:

Well, I think we did have, I can't really remember what they were but we did have some little things, you know that was brought for us.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what port you left from?

HUGHES:

Yes, Manchester.

SIGRIST:

How did you get to Manchester.

HUGHES:

You know, I can't even remember that.

SIGRIST:

Is it a long ways from where you were in Wales?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know how far but it must be a quite little ways. I can't remember that.

SIGRIST:

Did anyone go with you, with your family to the boat?

HUGHES:

You know I can't remember that, but I have an idea that they did. Probably the people next door went.

SIGRIST:

And what was the name of the boat?

HUGHES:

Campania.

SIGRIST:

And, describe for me through the eyes of a five year old what this boat looks like.

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know really about that either, but I know that when we got on there we used to like to romp and play and run, you know, and I don't know.

SIGRIST:

Did you, can you describe where you stayed on the boat? Can you remember any of that?

HUGHES:

Yes, well I don't know, of course our cabin. When it came breakfast time, this man would come around with the big drum and that was our call for breakfast. And then us children, we were pretty well ready to go then anyway, so we'd open the door and run after him for a little ways. We, I think, enjoyed going up on the upper deck to put on our life belts everyday. It got so that it was kind of a game with us. To see, you know, how much quicker we could do it everyday.

SIGRIST:

Why do you think you had to do it so frequently?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know, maybe it was some caution, you know.

SIGRIST:

Did anyone get sick in your family?

HUGHES:

Well, I think we all did get sick, but my father took us out on deck a lot. And they thought that it was better for us out there. That we would be more free from seasickness. And I think probably it was.

SIGRIST:

Were there other kids on the boat?

HUGHES:

I can't remember that. I can't remember that.

SIGRIST:

(to Mr. Ephraim) Do you have any memories of being on the boat?

EPHRAIM:

No, none at all.

SIGRIST:

No, still to young for that. How long did the boat ride take?

HUGHES:

Nine days.

EPHRAIM:

Nine days?

HUGHES:

Nine days.

SIGRIST:

And was it basically a smooth ride as you remember?

HUGHES:

Oh, we ran into a very bad storm, very bad, for a few days and the people there became very frightened. And my father had met this minister who he became very well acquainted with, they became great friends, his name was Abram Jones. And he was being sent for to preach at Plainfield Center, New York. Anyway, one day things were so bad, one evening, he came to our cabin, knocked on the door and asked if my father would come out and pray with him for the people. They were there all together at the lounge. And it was this man that wanted my father and family to come to where he was going in America. And Father thought that it was best for him to go to Canada first. END OF SIDE A. BEGIN SIDE B.

HUGHES:

(continues) But he came back after about six weeks and then he did come to where Abram Jones was and we were able to go to his church every Sunday.

SIGRIST:

Did anything else happen on the boat that sticks out in your mind?

HUGHES:

Well now, of course, the storm was so great and they had to have frames on the dining room tables, of course, you know, for every setting. And I did get burned on my arm when they were pouring tea.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember, perhaps, if the storm was so bad, did anyone die on the boat?

HUGHES:

There were two that died, and I well remember when Father was going out to go to the funeral on deck, and he had each one of us in one hand and, I guess, he thought that he should come in, you know, after the funeral services were over. And so we were coming through the door when I turned around to see what there was and they were just throwing the caskets over the, into the water, and some of the people were throwing flowers. I remember that very vividly, yeah.

SIGRIST:

As a little girl, what, how did that strike you? Is this something you were fascinated by, or scared by?

HUGHES:

I don't think so, really, I don't think so. No. I don't think that we realized really just what there was to it, you know.

SIGRIST:

So the boat takes nine days and you come into New York Harbor, do you, what happens when you come into New York Harbor?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know, but I imagine that there were people that were getting rather excited about landing. But my two aunts met us there.

SIGRIST:

Met us where?

HUGHES:

At the harbor in New York. So they came on board and they stayed with us children, while, of course, my father and mother had to go to be examined, you know, health-wise before leaving. I don't know what I thought that they had gone for good, you know, that we'd never see them again. So I put on quite a show, I guess. I cried and I fell down on the floor and I kicked and squealed and hollered. (she laughs) And I can see my aunt now as she look, you know, wondering, you know, just what to do about it. But they came back finally and things were alright. We left then altogether.

SIGRIST:

Where were they taken?

HUGHES:

Well, I don't know that, where ever room there was that they were examined, you know.

SIGRIST:

But you were still on the boat. They couldn't take you to Ellis Island.

HUGHES:

Yes, still on the boat. No, we were not off the boat. They were still examined on the boat somewhere.

SIGRIST:

Did you have to go to Ellis Island at all?

HUGHES:

No, well, I don't remember anything about that, you know, I just don't remember, but my father had two suitcases that he was carrying when he came off and this man came to him and said, "Would you like me to help you carry them?" So he gave one of the suitcases to him to carry. And in that suitcase was all the presents that we'd received, you know, and it full of presents and Bibles and testaments. Well, he gave it to the man to carry but he never saw, never saw him again. He walked off with it.

SIGRIST:

That's too bad.

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What were your aunts' names?

HUGHES:

Jane Vaughan Jones.

SIGRIST:

Vaughan?

HUGHES:

Jane Vaughan Jones, V-A-U-G-H-A-N, Jones. And she lived in New York. And the other aunt, Gwenellyn Pritchard lived in Granville, New York.

SIGRIST:

That's P-R-I-T...

HUGHES:

P-R-I-T-C-H-A-R-D.

SIGRIST:

And these are your mother's sisters.

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And you said they had been in this country for some time.

HUGHES:

Yes, and so we came with our aunt, Gwen Pritchard, to Granville, New York and stayed there for about six weeks. Until my father came back from Canada.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember your mother seeing your aunts for the first time? Do you remember any of that?

HUGHES:

I don't really remember that either. No I don't. But I'm sure they were glad to see each other.

SIGRIST:

So, tell me about, you said your father went to Canada, did you stay in New York for awhile?

HUGHES:

No, we went right to our aunt's in Granville with her, went home with her.

SIGRIST:

That same day.

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember that trip, at all, up to Granville?

HUGHES:

No, I don't. I don't remember a thing. I remember being in Granville, you know. She was right on the main street there. And there was a little store right next door, and then there was the river that was between, you know, Vermont and New York. Quite a big bridge there. And we would go out in the front, we could go on the walk to play. But somehow we got away and went down by the bridge. (she laughs) And this one here, my brother, went up on that big side of the, you know, concrete siding of that bridge, it was so high, and we couldn't do one thing with him. We were so afraid he was going to go down in the water, you know, but, we got home safe.

SIGRIST:

Mr. Ephraim is always getting into...

EPHRAIM:

I don't even remember that. (Mrs. Hughes laughs)

SIGRIST:

You were a constant source of concern for everyone.

HUGHES:

Yes, that it was. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Was there a Welsh community in Granville?

HUGHES:

Oh yes, very Welsh. You see, that was the time of the slate quarries were going good then. Very many Welsh folks around there. Yes.

SIGRIST:

How long did you stay in Granville?

HUGHES:

Six weeks.

SIGRIST:

Can you, did you just stay with your aunt?

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Did your aunt have a big household of people?

HUGHES:

Well, she just had us there, you know. Just, they didn't, she didn't have children of her own. It was just her and her husband.

SIGRIST:

What time of the year is this?

HUGHES:

This was in March. March.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember if...

HUGHES:

See there was the time, about the time the Titanic went down, you see, because Father tried to get passage on the Titanic and it was filled, so we couldn't get in on that. And praise the Lord we didn't.

SIGRIST:

That's right, April 15th.

HUGHES:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about what life was like for those six weeks with your aunt. You know, what you were doing in the house.

HUGHES:

Well, I don't really remember too much about that either. We used to go out on the street and play. She had a store across the road, so sometimes we would go over there a bit. But I don't know, I can't really remember too much about it either.

SIGRIST:

Did your aunt speak Welsh and English?

HUGHES:

Yes she did, yes she did.

SIGRIST:

So you were speaking Welsh in the house. Did you speak any English in Wales?

HUGHES:

No, I don't think we did. And, you see, when we came over here and attended school...

SIGRIST:

Over to Utica?

HUGHES:

Over to America, here, yes. And we went to school and we couldn't speak a word of English. And it was rather hard and there was one other Welsh girl there in the school. Well there may have been others, but anyway, this particular one, the teacher would come to here and ask her if she would ask our names. (she laughs) And that was, we started out like that. But after awhile, we got so that, I got so that I couldn't think of a Welsh word. I couldn't speak Welsh at all. And then after awhile again, it came back to me. Well, then I guess Father thought that he should decide to do something about that. So, what did he do, yes, he told us that we couldn't speak English at the table. So really I think that's the way we kept our Welsh. And then when we went to Church, when we went, we had this girl's class and we had a Welsh teacher and we were to read English out of the Bible. But my father went to the teacher and asked her if she wouldn't have us reading Welsh, and so that was alright with her. And before long, the funny part of it was, they all wanted to read Welsh, so the whole class came to read Welsh. But I think that's the only way that we kept our Welsh at all.

SIGRIST:

And that was important to your father, that you maintain something like that.

HUGHES:

Yes, yes it was.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother and father, did they attempt to learn English?

HUGHES:

Oh yes. My mother had beautiful English, wonderful English. But my father, it was hard for him to, you know, it was hard for him to learn it.

SIGRIST:

How did they learn it?

HUGHES:

Well, I think just everyday living, you know, just going about with meeting people and doing business at the stores and like that. I do think it was hard for my father, but he eventually got pretty good at it, really.

SIGRIST:

How long did your dad stay in Canada?

HUGHES:

Six weeks.

SIGRIST:

So the same amount of time you were in Granville, he was in Canada. Where did you go when he came back?

HUGHES:

We went to West, we went to Plainfield Center, where Mr. Jones the minister went.

SIGRIST:

And did you stay there for a long period of time?

HUGHES:

We only stayed there a short time. We went on a farm to West Exeter, and then from there we went to West Winfield, and from West Winfield, well let's see, yes, I was married in 1933 to Howard Hughes, and...

SIGRIST:

You were here then.

HUGHES:

Yes, and we had one son, Brent Evan Hughes, who's now in Syracuse, New York.

SIGRIST:

Mr. Ephraim, let me ask you, what do you remember about growing up in this Welsh household? What it difficult to go to school and then go home because the two worlds were different?

EPHRAIM:

No, I never thought anything about it, only one world, you know. (Mrs. Hughes laughs)

SIGRIST:

What do you remember, give me a couple memories about going to school here in America, grammar school maybe.

EPHRAIM:

Well, let's see, when we was down in West Exeter, we used to walk to school. It was a far ways off. How far was it? It must have been...

HUGHES:

About two miles I guess.

EPHRAIM:

Two miles, I guess. We used to walk back and forth and it was a small school.

SIGRIST:

Were there other Welsh children in that school, or other immigrant children?

EPHRAIM:

No.

SIGRIST:

Did, do you remember speaking Welsh at the table, as Mrs. Hughes does?

EPHRAIM:

No, I don't. I guess I didn't know Welsh very well, did I. (Mrs. Hughes laughs) I guess I just listened.

SIGRIST:

And your parents spoke Welsh to each other, right?

HUGHES:

Yes, yes.

SIGRIST:

You said that your dad went back in `41.

HUGHES:

Yes, `41.

SIGRIST:

Why did he go back?

HUGHES:

Well just thought maybe that, you know, that, it would be his last trip over, and he'd like to go and see his people again.

SIGRIST:

How old was he at that point?

HUGHES:

Seventy-eight, I think it was.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother go with him?

HUGHES:

No, she had passed away. She had passed away about 1922.

SIGRIST:

Oh, what did she die of?

HUGHES:

Well, I think she had ulcers of the stomach. Yes.

SIGRIST:

Was that difficult for your father?

HUGHES:

Yes, it was very difficult, yes. It was, we, I think he tried to keep us together as much as he could, you know. I think that was my mother's last wish is she wanted my father to keep us children together.

SIGRIST:

Was your mother's funeral service said in Welsh?

HUGHES:

Let me see, I think it was, I think it was. It was held in Rome, New York, but she was buried in Utica.

SIGRIST:

So your father goes back in `41, and how long did he stay.

HUGHES:

Well, he stayed, must have been a month or so.

SIGRIST:

Had he or your mother ever wanted to move back at any point?

HUGHES:

I never heard them say that, you know, I never heard them say that. I heard him say this, that it wouldn't of mattered how many times he had moved here in this country, you know, after he'd moved from Wales.

SIGRIST:

The big move.

HUGHES:

Yes, yes.

SIGRIST:

Did...

HUGHES:

He had great times on the ship. He met so many people, you know, that could sing. And he used to take part in the concerts too, of course.

SIGRIST:

This was in 1941?

HUGHES:

Yes. `41.

SIGRIST:

What boat did he go over on?

HUGHES:

Well, now, I don't know for sure. Was it the Mauretania? It could have been the Mauretania. I know that my sister went on the Mauretania quite a few times. She went with him, she went with him.

SIGRIST:

When your father was in Wales, obviously I'm sure he was happy to be there, but was he anxious to get back?

HUGHES:

Well, yes, you see, he went in `41. He came back, that was time the war was on. Of course, he had a visa, and when it was in the middle of the night they called and came after him to this farm and brought him back to the ship. And by this time they had painted the ship the same color as the water, and I know that he got some of this paint on his suit. Yes, that was in `41. And they had two convoys, of course, one each side of the ship and he said they zig-zagged all of the way over. So they went out of the way four hundred miles. But he got back safe, but he was glad to get back. He was anxious to get back. But he did enjoy himself over there. He said he used to have this mask, they were told to put their masks right by their bed, you know, on the chair, by the bed. And they always had that handy, but he said...

SIGRIST:

Gas mask.

HUGHES:

Yes. But he used to go out and it was light in the night he'd say and come home after visiting his friends. He had a real good time.

SIGRIST:

In our few remaining minutes, one thing I did want to touch on, which I forgot to do in sequence. I wanted to ask you, what do you remember about being in this country during World War One, and did your parents and how your parents felt about that war, what you might remember about that time?

HUGHES:

Well, you know, I don't know as I can recall too much. But I do know this, that we had, we couldn't get what we wanted, you know. Things were very scarce then and we were having to do say, maybe something like corn meal and things that we didn't care so much about but we had to eat them then. And things were scare, but we got along because we had a farm, and we had our own meat, and potatoes, and things like that.

SIGRIST:

Did your parents fear for any of their friends in Wales?

HUGHES:

Oh, I think they did. I think they did. Yes. It was, they had a real hard time over there. And even when they went over in `41, they still didn't have the food they needed over there, you know. I remember my sister saying that all they were allowed for that one week was one piece of bacon and one egg. That was it. And it was very hard for them, but now, in `75 it seemed to me like they had plenty of everything, you know. Of course, a lot of their food comes from Australia, doesn't it? And of course, being they raise sheep there, they, much, many of the stores I noticed were selling lamb and mutton, so forth.

SIGRIST:

Mr. Ephraim, do you have any memories of being a boy during World War I, and how you thought about the war when you were young?

EPHRAIM:

I don't think I do. I know that there was war on, yeah.

HUGHES:

Yes, and I know that when people came to visit them, someone came from Wales, and came to visit them. I heard them, you know, visiting with each other and saying how many of their sons were lost in that war. And they were, it was real serious.

EPHRAIM:

I guess I can't give you much information on that, either. (he laughs)

SIGRIST:

Oh, that's all right. (he laughs)

HUGHES:

But, anyway they came through, there was an England, there was a Wales. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Yes, indeed, indeed. What do you think, Mrs. Hughes, is inherently Welsh about you? To this day, what is the most Welsh thing about you?

HUGHES:

Well, I think it's my love for music. My love for music and for the Welsh people. We like to get together, you know. I don't know as I can say anything else. I do, you know, get together with some of the group there in Utica, New York. Once or twice a year, we have what we call, the Eiestedfod, you know the festival of song. And maybe there's, you know, couple times in between that we have some parties or other.

SIGRIST:

So, so could you say, could you make a generalization that Welsh people are very gregarious. That they like to be very social?

HUGHES:

Yes, I think so, I think, I think you can say that.

SIGRIST:

Is there anything about you, Mr. Ephraim, that, that, something very Welsh about you.

EPHRAIM:

No, I don't think so. (everyone laughs)

SIGRIST:

You think of yourself, more American, through and through.

EPHRAIM:

Yeah, that's `bout all I knew, I guess, is...

SIGRIST:

Because you were so young when you came. Well, I guess my final question to both of you is, are you glad that your parents made the decision to come to this country?

HUGHES:

Well, I think that it has been a good, good move. I really think it has been best for us. I say like this, seems like my heart is in the homeland and I feel so near and dear to these people over there. But God bless America, it has been good to us.

SIGRIST:

Good. Well, thank you, I want to thank both of you for taking your time and letting me come out in the blizzard.

HUGHES:

There's a picture of us when we were here.

SIGRIST:

We'll look at that in just a minute. This is Paul Sigrist signing off in West Winfield, New York, with Winifred Hughes and her brother Llewelyn Ephraim, on January 31, 1993. END OF INTERVIEW ADDITION TO INTERVIEW EI-245 RECEIVED FEBRUARY 18, 1993 IN A LETTER FROM MRS. HUGHES:

HUGHES:

This came to me, that my mother used to make trifle once in a great while. She had made sponge cake, cut in squares and lined this cut glass bowl with it. Then she dipped the bottom of the cake in sherry wine (very slight), then put a layer of rasberry jam, then a layer of sliced bananas. Then over all this pudding she made of soft custard. Then a lot of whipped cream on top. One day after I was married, I had these two ladies to supper and thought that would be nice and I guess I dipped the cake too much into the wine and that permeated the whole pudding. The worst part of it was the lady was a WCTU. I didn't dare say anything about it at suppertime but later I said to the daughter that I had put a little too much wine in it. She had quite a good laugh over it.