LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. I'm here in Worcester, Massachusetts at the home of Mr. Constantine Moschos, who came from Greece in 1916 when he was sixteen years of age. And I'm here, Mrs. Moschos is here with us. It's August 11, 1993. Okay, let's try it again now.

MOSCHOS:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Um, if you would say your birth date, and the significance of the date.

MOSCHOS:

Yes. I was born in Finiki, Filiates which is now Greece. When I was born, we were under the, of the Turks. It was Turkish. We were liberated during the Balkan War, between the Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Montenegro against the Turks, and where the Greece, where the part that I came, I was born in, became liberated. But I was, myself I was in Constantinople at that time. I went to Constantinople in February of 1912, and stayed there until December 12, 1915, just one week before the boundaries between Greece and Turkey were closed during the first World War. MRS

MOSCHOS:

You can say the date you were born, though. The first time you didn't.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Why don't you give your birth date?

MOSCHOS:

I was born on Easter Sunday in 1900, April 9th was the Julian calendar, and 22 with the Gregorian calendar, and I'm going here with the Gregorian calendar.

LEVINE:

So, uh, the name of the town you were born in?

MOSCHOS:

Phiniki. P-H-I-N-I-K-I.

LEVINE:

And did you live in Phiniki until you were twelve?

MOSCHOS:

Until I was twelve. Not exactly twelve, but twelve. I left in, uh, early February to go to Constantinople, where my father used to be working.

LEVINE:

I see. When you were in Phiniki, do you remember the town?

MOSCHOS:

Very well. Exactly well.

LEVINE:

What do you think of when you think of the town?

MOSCHOS:

I love it. I still love it. I . . .

LEVINE:

What's so nice about it?

MOSCHOS:

It's the nature of beauty. The people, the school I went to, and all those things, they bring back my youthful memories.

LEVINE:

Was it a little town, or a large town?

MOSCHOS:

It was a little town of about ninety houses, ninety families. And about, uh, four hundred, between four hundred and fifty and five hundred people living there. Most of the people were working in Constantinople. We were bakers. All of the people were engaged into the bakery business in Constantinople. They had their own businesses. Now, when you speak of bakeries, you must realize the bakeries in Constantinople were like manufacturers (?? - an aside in Greek). The people, or rather the workers, especially those that made, prepared the loaves of bread, they used to work in what they call bönet . All, that's a Turkish word. All of them working on, uh . . .

MOSCHOS:

Shifts.

MOSCHOS:

Shifts. Three-hour shifts. They work three hours, and go to bed three hours, and so forth.

LEVINE:

Around the clock?

MOSCHOS:

Around the clock. Because the factories, or rather the bakeries, they weren't large enough to produce, the oven weren't large enough to produce enough of it to make it sufficient for the, let's say, the daytime shifts to produce enough of bread for, for the factory, for the people to have, for the consumers. And therefore some of them were obliged to work on shifts, twenty-four hours a day.

LEVINE:

And the people from Phiniki would go to Constantinople to their bakery businesses?

MOSCHOS:

Businesses, some of them they had businesses. And all of them were workers.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And it turns out that most of the people from your town were in the bakery business?

MOSCHOS:

Practically all those that immigrated to Constantinople, they were all bakers, without exception.

MOSCHOS:

They were going to work in, now, my grandfather, my grandfathers had bakery, so other people go there and work for them. They work two or three years then go back to the village for a year.

MOSCHOS:

Because practically the people from Phiniki controlled, you could say they controlled the bakery business of, uh, Constantinople. Because they were influenced baker, because they, practically every one of them had a bakery business, of those people. Some of them, like my gray father-in-law, they had three or four. And they had, my wife's grandfather, they had three or four bakeries and then used people from the village to management, to manage them.

LEVINE:

I see. So, now, what did your father do?

MOSCHOS:

My father, he was chief baker. He, he produced the, the raw material, the bakery, and the bread. And, uh, and he had about three other assistants with him - each shift composed of about three people. The chief baker, which my father was, and then the, his assistants.

LEVINE:

I see. What was your father's name?

MOSCHOS:

My father's name was Mina, M-I-N-A.

LEVINE:

And, uh, did you ever go with him as a small boy, to Constantinople?

MOSCHOS:

No. I went with friends. Just before, it was in February, just before Easter time. I, I did not stay in the village for Easter. I went and had Easter in Constantinople with my father. And I had some other couple of cousins of mine that were there in our bakery, because my father used to work for his nephews as a chief baker when I went in Constantinople. They owned the bakery, and my father was the chief baker.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. How about your mother? What was her name?

MOSCHOS:

(?) name Calliope. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Calliope.

MOSCHOS:

Calliope, they pronounced in English. C-A-L-L-I-O-P-E. You must have heard Calliope, one of the three muses there.

LEVINE:

And what was your mother's maiden name?

MOSCHOS:

Tsonis. T-S-O-N-I-S.

LEVINE:

And, uh, did you have grandparents living nearby?

MOSCHOS:

Grandparents, grandparents, not in Constantinople. I was living with my grandmother, whom I loved dearly.

LEVINE:

What was her name?

MOSCHOS:

Her name is, uh, Marina. M-A-R-I-N-A. And I have a granddaughter by the name of Marina.

LEVINE:

And was your grandmother your mother's mother or your father's . . .

MOSCHOS:

Tha'ts right. My mother's mother. My father's mother was dead. I never knew her.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any experiences as a young boy with your grandmother?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, I have many lovely experiences with my grandmother. I, I wore her . . .

LEVINE:

What do you remember her doing?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, she was at home. She was quite old. And, of course, she used to take care of me. And I know if my mother ever tried to chastise me, my grandmother was there and, of course, I, she would interfere all the time. I loved my grandmother, and I still have cherished memories with her.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any stories she told you, or any, any things that she told you that she wanted you to, to live by, or, no?

MOSCHOS:

Well, she lived, she, what exactly she used to tell me? She says to we all to be nice and grow rich and wealthy and live a long life, to live a hundred years.

LEVINE:

Did she live, she lived a long life? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No.

MOSCHOS:

She herself lived to an old, ripe age. I don't exactly remember, in the eighties. I was here, I was here when she passed away.

LEVINE:

And, uh, so did you have chores around the house when you were a little boy that you had to do?

MOSCHOS:

Well, we used to have some chores. At first I, when my mother was awake and taking care of property . . . MRS

MOSCHOS:

They had the fields, and olive oils.

MOSCHOS:

The fields, and so forth. We all had, you know. And I, when the goats came home at noon time, I used to milk them at noon time, because during the summer months and the spring only, the goat came home at noon time, and then they had two hours siesta around two o'clock. We would take them out again and go to the mountains to feed them. In the village, of course, in those years, the houses were self-supporting. They have goats for milk, and they have chickens and so forth. And we, we had quite a few goats. And, uh, we had our milk, and sometimes we made, uh, various things, like yogurt and so forth, and sour milk, at home, from our milk. The houses, in the villages, you could never have people who were, uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Starving.

MOSCHOS:

Very poor, extremely poor, or dependent, or whatever, because they were self-supporting. They had their chickens, all their eggs, and they pool it. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The fields, to grow wheat, to grow maize.

MOSCHOS:

Everything. They had there, as I said, the goat, to get their milk, and their milk products from it that they used to make. They used to make their own butter from the milk, and so forth and so on. So abject poverty, like we do have here, there was no longer. They have their own home, beautiful home. Stone-built homes. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They used to make their own linen. They go out and get the bush that has the linen and take it.

MOSCHOS:

From the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They used to take it down to, my mother-in-law used to tell me, down to the spring, and they used to pound it and let it stay under the water for days, and then they used to take it and make thread out of it.

MOSCHOS:

They make their own, uh, some of them, they make their own clothing out of wool, woolen clothing. MRS

MOSCHOS:

This was from the goats they had the wool, and from the sheep they had the wool, and they used to make, knit, and make their own wool...

MOSCHOS:

Their own. The old people, especially my grandmother, for instance, that couldn't go and walk out in the fields on the properties. When they stayed home, they used their stuff, you know, making the, knitting. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Thread.

MOSCHOS:

Thread and so forth, to make the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

To make the blankets.

MOSCHOS:

They used to make blankets and everything, beautiful blankets. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And then they had fields. Some they had many fields, some had only one field, but they grew enough that, either wheat or maize or barley or something. Every year they changed the fields. (what? (?) You were poor, but not really poor. And those who didn't have enough, they worked for that. Those who had less, the others would go and help them get paid.

LEVINE:

Now, did you, were you, um, in the same town? Did you notice . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, I'm from the same village, from the same little town. But it happened that my mother would go to the Constantinople, stay a year or so, and then come back.

MOSCHOS:

And she was worried 'cause of that. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

She, it happened that some of us children were born in Constantinople, and some were born in the village, in Phiniki. So we come back and forth. It happened, I was born in Constantinople, and then I, I came, my mother came back, stayed . . .

MOSCHOS:

Immigrated there. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Stayed in, maybe a year or so, then went back again. And my sister was born in Constantinople, too, but she went back and got married in Constantinople. And then after, when the war broke, the First World War, we went to Greece, because Greece was neutral then. And, like my husband said, after 1915, it closed, the boundaries were closed. So we were during First World War. I was there until 1919. In 1919 we went back to Constantinople.

LEVINE:

I see. I see. So, um, did you, did you do any of these kinds of, you milked the goats.

MOSCHOS:

I milked goats. I used to know everything, everything pertaining to the farm. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

He loved, loved the sheep and goats, he loved.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

MOSCHOS:

And I used to have the little, the little goats, kids. The kids, I used to have kids, my favorite one. And we were pals. Wherever I went, he followed me.

LEVINE:

Oh, this was like a pet.

MOSCHOS:

Pet, yeah. That's right. It's a pet. We, like any child in this country or any for.., you have, you have your pets. But here they go out and they buy pets. We had at home, our own kids.

LEVINE:

Let's see. So, tell me what your house looked like? How many rooms was it, and what did it . . .

MOSCHOS:

In my, in the . . .

LEVINE:

Where you lived.

MOSCHOS:

At home. We had, on the, on the lower part, it's where we kept the animals. And then you . . .

LEVINE:

Now, which animals would be kept there?

MOSCHOS:

Like the goats, or sheep, if you have. And you have the, uh, the chickens and so forth, in a separate place you make, the chicken coop. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Outside.

MOSCHOS:

Outside of the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Outside the . . .

MOSCHOS:

Outside of the, you had the chicken coop. MRS

MOSCHOS:

Outside the yard.

MOSCHOS:

The yard, in there. And then we had, in the yard just (?), we used, we used to, in my home we have the, uh, fig tree. And then we had the vin, vine for grapes, grapevine in here, and we build a platform on the top, and then for a spread all over. We, you know, at home we had everything very beautiful, beautiful grapes, figs. I remember the fig trees we had. Many trees of different type of all the figs.

LEVINE:

Did your mother and grandmother make things out of the figs? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yes.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, yes.

LEVINE:

What kind of dishes, or what did they do with it? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They used to take, and when they were ripe, they put them out and they picked them up and they put them out in the sun and dried them. And then they, they take and ground them, and then they made, uh, something like, uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Fig balls.

MOSCHOS:

Ball, fig balls. And what they called nanouli, N-A-N-O-U-L-I. Nanouli. It tasted excellent, taste. And we used to have it mostly in the winter months when you did not have any figs, and so forth. And we used to have the nanouli. And while we had the fireplaces, we used to put them in this oven, heat them up, and, uh, and eat them. You remember all those things that you did while you were young, and you long for them. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And it was dried fig, like . . .

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, you dried them, same as you have, you buy. You can buy dried figs.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Was the fireplace for heat, or for cooking, or for both?

MOSCHOS:

You use them for ev... Well, generally we used to have in our, in the home, for instance, we have the kitchen, same as we have here. And then we have what we call the (Greek), "kimonas"? mean the winter room, and that was very close. And then you had the fireplace there. Of course, you didn't use that for, you used it strictly for heating. You never cooked there. You cooked in the kitchen. You have your own oven. You bake your own bread. You bake all those things.

LEVINE:

What was the oven like?

MOSCHOS:

The oven, uh, same as any oven that you have here, a brick oven. And it was built in there. It was built, no, oh, no. It was especially oven built in, like a brick oven. MRS

MOSCHOS:

It was a large one.

MOSCHOS:

Large one. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

You bake bread for the whole week.

MOSCHOS:

You bake bread for the whole week, practically. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

In one year, I don't remember, in the '30s we sent her money, and she got bricks. She made the oven all over again. She wanted bricks from Germany. She made, she built the oven all over again with bricks from Germany, my mother-in-law wanted.

LEVINE:

Why did she want bricks from Germany? ( they laugh ) MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Somebody must have thought it's better than the old-fashioned she had.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. Because they use it, they use for bread, and they used to do, use them for when they had to make pies, for instance, all kinds of pies that they had made. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Casseroles.

MOSCHOS:

Casserole. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Every Saturday. Every Saturday they'll bring their wood in, in the kitchen, and heat, heat the oven it was right, right. And then they'd put the coal, wood to make coal, and they'ld put the coal in, and then they bake.

MOSCHOS:

Although there were about ninety homes in there like mine, we didn't, people there didn't, they weren't, nobody was destitute. If you had, you may not have, if you, money, cash, what you need is to buy some coffee, sugar, and then . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Rice.

MOSCHOS:

Rice. Some people in some other places, they used to produce their own rice. And, uh, when you have name days and so forth that we celebrated, you used to go and buy some liquor. Those are the only things that you would need the money for. Everything else, you were self-supporting. So there was no destitute people in the village.

LEVINE:

So people had land. Everybody who was there had a little land.

MOSCHOS:

Yes. We all had our own land.

MRS. MOSCHOS:

Some a bit more than others.

MOSCHOS:

Than others.

LEVINE:

I see. Well, just to finish with talking about your house.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Did you have, you had a kitchen?

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

You go up the stairs, fifteen stairs, we went up.

LEVINE:

First it was the animals, then you went up the fifteen stairs to the kitchen.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The house was like this. You entered into the courtyard. This way you go to this first floor, the cellar. Here was the chicken coop. Here you go into the cellar. It was divided into two places, one the front is with animals, and she, my mother-in-law had big, big, uh . . .

MOSCHOS:

Storage, we used it like storage room. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Storage room.

MOSCHOS:

It was cold there. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And she used to put her eggs in there, to not, to.. She put them inside the window. They get no air, and they last

MOSCHOS:

And they last. They're stored away. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

You get the wood for the fireplace, and she'd get the wheat and things like that. Then you could come up the fifteen stairs, and there was a platform there, and then you enter into the main hall. And here there were other three stairs, you went up and there was a patio, like, a great, big patio. And then . . .

LEVINE:

Outside patio. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Like. But because they were, um, (Greek) because that was, uh, there was just (Greek), like, uh, (Greek) in English now, I might have forgotten.

MOSCHOS:

What's that? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(Greek) It was a (Greek). You know, stones, big boulders. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Boulders, stones, what you can call it. And then they just cover it and they put, uh, tile, tile that they cut from the mountain, stone tile they had. And then . . .

MOSCHOS:

And then we used to have our big house. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And from there you went to the barn. The barn, the barn this way, they put the hay, but you went down, down below to the courtyard, it was animals. And then you go out from the barn, there was another courtyard. And from tha patio there, there was a door to go into the kitchen, too, and a door to go to the upper garden. And, uh, and then from the hallway, the hallway was kind of big. We used it for dining.

MOSCHOS:

Dining room, like. MRS

MOSCHOS:

It was so large. And then there were four doors there.

MOSCHOS:

And then we had the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

This door, you went to the living room, this door to the bedroom, let us say, and this door to the winter room, and this door to the kitchen.

MOSCHOS:

And the room, we had five rooms, like. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Right.

MOSCHOS:

And the center was the, let's say like the dining room and the (?) room. And then you have the living room for, uh, social affairs and so forth, when people come in. And then you have your bedrooms, and the winter room, and the kitchen. The kitchen was separate. They have its own oven and . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Mostly we bake there during the winter.

LEVINE:

Well, it sounds like it was comfortable.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, absolutely. Oh, very comfortable, always. Comfortable home. They were built of stone. I, when I was there in, uh, last time, I admired, I looked at the walls, the thickness of the walls. It was about thirty inches, thick walls.

LEVINE:

Of stone.

MOSCHOS:

Absolutely. Of stone. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

You go up the mountain and cut the stone.

MOSCHOS:

They built the houses for life. Not for life . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They don't have any people now that can cut that kind of stone. They used to. And, of course . . .

MOSCHOS:

Beautiful home. When you have the chance look at that house, on . . .

LEVINE:

The picture.

MOSCHOS:

that picture in there. And you see what a (?), what a beautiful thing.

LEVINE:

And then when . . .

MOSCHOS:

We have our orange trees. We have a tree which half of it was lemon, and half of it was orange. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

It came up to the different stairs, (?) orange.

MOSCHOS:

And then we have, my mother had beehives, when she was alive. MRS

MOSCHOS:

When she died, she had twenty-six.

MOSCHOS:

When she died, she had twenty-two beehives. We have our own honey, and they made their own wax and so, for the church. And my mother would never, never they would be all buy these, uh, candles and stuff they sell. She used to . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Pure, pure, honeybee wax.

MOSCHOS:

Pure wax candles from, it's all wax. She used to make her own.

LEVINE:

Did you ever see her make it?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, yes.

LEVINE:

What did she do? How did she . . .

MOSCHOS:

Well, they, they took the, the wax from the, from the honey, the honeybees. It comes in plates, like. And where the store, they have you seen, probably, how they, the honey, they store their honey in there. And after they extract the honey, and they extract the ( mpala ?), they extract the wax from it, and they use the wax to make the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They melt it.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, to melt it. And to, to make the candles. They, they hold the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

That she used to take the, the string, what they call that?

MOSCHOS:

The thread, in . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And put it on that nail, and then she take a piece of wire, and she, she want to show me, and she would go like that and make it as thick as she wanted. And she says, "When I die, you come to light in my grave, that kind of candle." The best grandmother-in-law that there is.

MOSCHOS:

Well, those were really, some of them to use (?). I suppose the farmers, or the original farmers in this country here, must have used the same methods, the same things. But now they, the modern people, they live, go in the cities and so forth, they neglect all those things. And especially they don't know how to make their clothing and so forth like the old people used to do. It's too bad, a lost art.

LEVINE:

Well, um, you went to school there?

MOSCHOS:

Yes.

LEVINE:

What was school like?

MOSCHOS:

School, well, we had it, two schools. One for the girls, and the other for the boys. And we have a, it was like any school. They were strict, though. They were strict. You couldn't, uh, do any things, because the teacher was strict. ( he laughs ) You'll have the sticks and hit your legs and hands and everything. And you cannot, there was no place you can protest. If you went home and said something, complain about the teacher hitting you or something like that, you'd get another licking at home, because you misbehaved. Otherwise the teacher would not have. So you kept quiet. It isn't like here, going and protest and sue the teachers.

LEVINE:

Did you, um, did you learn Turkish in school?

MOSCHOS:

No.

LEVINE:

No.

MOSCHOS:

We never learned Turkish. We, just Greek. And we used to, I have two years of French. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

MOSCHOS:

(?) came here, of course, the, and we came to arrive in Worcester, and I read the sign, they had a big sign in, on the railroad station. You know where the Union Station is now. That's what we used to call Union Station. It's "Worcester." And I could not understand why you, the name is Worcester and you pronounce it as "Wooster." I couldn't, because in the Greek, or in the French, we pronounce everything.

LEVINE:

So, um, let's see. Do you, what, do you remember any rituals or customs that were preserved?

MOSCHOS:

Well, we had the customs, and rituals. Let us take, for instance, Easter day. It's the biggest holy day of the year. The whole way, you go to church every single night, day and night. And then when Easter comes in and you have, everybody from, especially the people who were far away in distant lands working, they had the farmers (?). Generally they made it, tried to make it to come back home and celebrate the dancings. The orchestras thought they were rare. We were closer things that I cherish mostly, most of traditions came to us from time immemorial.

LEVINE:

What traditions were connected with Easter?

MOSCHOS:

The traditions of going to the church. For instance, if we young people were waiting very, uh, eagerly, to Easter to come in and go and ring the bell around twelve o'clock, at midnight. And one, one year my future grandfather, great-grandfather, he had his house near the church, and he disliked being disturbed. You know, we used to go around eleven, church at twelve o'clock, at midnight, and we'd go eleven o'clock and start ringing the bells. This was the only enjoyment we used to have, go and ring the church bells. And then he went and locked the door of the belfry, and we couldn't go in there, and we got mad, and we used to call him. Little did he know we have, marry his granddaughter. ( Ms. Levine laughs ) These are memories that I cherish of my youth.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any foods that were prepared for these special occasions?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, oh, especially in Easter we had our own goats and kill, and take the (?), the kids away, we kill them. And get the (?), and they prepare all kinds of traditional foods. You use them only during the Easter. And they had pies, cheese pies, spinach pie and custard pie. Oh, you had a feast. It was unbelievable, the things that you couldn't afford today, because they do not have their goats, and they do not have chicken, and they have milk from their own goats.

LEVINE:

So, um, when you were twelve years old, what prompted you to go to Constantinople?

MOSCHOS:

Because I, I finished my school, you know, the grade school. I went up to the, what they call it? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

If you go like this can you, do you block the speaker?

MOSCHOS:

No.

LEVINE:

Okay. Go ahead. I'll watch it.

MOSCHOS:

And, uh, I, I finished the school in there, I can no go farther. And my mother said, "I can't afford to send you far away, to send you to school. I'll send to your father in Constantinople, and let him take care of you." And so she did.

LEVINE:

So you went, then, to live with your father.

MOSCHOS:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And go to school.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. To go to school, but I didn't. He put me to work.

LEVINE:

Oh. Now, did you, had you seen a lot of your father? Had he gone back and forth a lot, or was he mostly staying in Constantinople?

MOSCHOS:

When (?) in Constantinople. He used to go home every five or six years, five years, and stay for about a year or so, and then he drive back, he go back to Constantinople. But in Constantinople I used to see him quite often, or even, uh, one time I stayed there with him in the, in the bakery that he, where he used to be the chief baker. And, quite a little . . .

LEVINE:

So what did he, what did he put you to work doing? What was your work doing?

MOSCHOS:

The first time, what he did, he put me working for a butcher shop, delivering goods home and, in there, in Constantinople, of course, the people, the wealthy people, they don't go and shop, and they used to call the butcher shop and say I want so many lamb chops, or beef, or whatever it is, and you deliver it home. So . . .

LEVINE:

And so how long . . .

MOSCHOS:

I did that. I did that for a while. And then afterwards I went back in, when I was about thirteen years I went to the bakery business, to be an assistant counter boy. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

A second cousin of his.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

You were an assistant counter boy.

MOSCHOS:

Counter boy, yeah.

LEVINE:

Um, in the bakery?

MOSCHOS:

In the bakery, yeah.

LEVINE:

What did . . .

MOSCHOS:

Selling bread.

LEVINE:

Oh, selling it.

MOSCHOS:

Selling bread. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

He assisted the counter, to sell it. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. Sell bread. And we used to sell it by whole. But, uh, you could come in and buy, you know, some people here. Let's say five, uh . . .

MOSCHOS:

Loaves.

MOSCHOS:

Uh, five loaves. Or even get five cents worth, ten cents worth, and so forth, whatever they needed. We'd cut it, and sold it.

LEVINE:

And then did you stay being a counter boy?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, yes. That's all I did all my life, while I was there, until 1915, and December 12th. My father sent me, at that time. After the, the Armenian massacre in Anatolia, there were rumors prevailing in Constantinople that the next was to be butchered would be the Greeks, especially the young kids, the young boys. And my father said, "Here, you've got to go home." At least you survive. At that time, the (?) at home, liberated in the, on the Greece. They were liberated in 1913, on the Balkan war, just before the World War started. And, uh, and I did. I, I left, as I said, I'll never forget it. In November, I mean, December 12th, the same spirituals. The Greeks have a tradition that they celebrate their saints day and spiritual day. I left that day for (?), by the train. I took the train to (?). You could not go by ship, because on the, uh, (?) was blocked by the British war ships. It was during the first World War, and Turkey was on the side of Germany. And they were all animals. And they were still animals until, even in the Second World War. But today we have, we have friends, and so forth. You cannot make friends of (?).

LEVINE:

Um, do you personally remember anything about the Armenian massacre? What did you know about it?

MOSCHOS:

I didn't know very, we didn't know very much in Constantinople. Because the press, they took the (?). It would not describe anything of that sort. Uh, it was censorship. But rumors circulated, you cannot stop them. We all know what was taken place, but not officially, or read anything. Because from the rumors circulating around.

LEVINE:

And what was the holiday you mentioned, the religious . . .

MOSCHOS:

Easter.

LEVINE:

No, you said . . .

MOSCHOS:

St. Spiritus [ph].

LEVINE:

Yeah. Tell me about that.

MOSCHOS:

Well, St. Spiritus, it's a very serious holiday among the orthodox people. And that's the day I took my railroad, I bought my ticket for the railroad. Otherwise had I stayed another week, the boundary would have been closed between Turkey and Greece, because Turkey joined the war against the allies at that time, we used to call the allies. England, France, Italy. The Allies. And Germany was our, Germany, Turkey, Austria-Hungary was our, uh, enemies, adversaries. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?)

MOSCHOS:

No, I don't. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Across from us, right across from us, in twenty minutes with a motorboat we go there. And there they have the remains, St. Spiritus. And St. Spiritus Day, and during the summer when they had a big, big holiday. So, we're very (?) to St. Spiritus.

MOSCHOS:

Can you hear of the big island of Corfu? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The city, to get to Corfu, You had to go up the mountain to see it. We could not see it from our homes. But if you go up high, you can see the city.

LEVINE:

What is the significance of St. Spiritus?

MOSCHOS:

Well . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

That He was one of, he was at the first Synod, in 325, and he, somebody was saying there's only one God, there can't be three. And he, they say that he took the brick and he said, "There's one. Now, if I crash that, there will be three." And he crashed it, and the water separated, and the flame, and the earth and the water and the flame . . .

MOSCHOS:

And they became three. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

It was a miracle. And then he was very good (?).

MOSCHOS:

And the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That's what they were disputing. He come out and he called up miracles, supposedly. That's what tradition tells, in 325, the first ecumenical Synod, we had seven, we believe seven. Then, at that time, it was only one religion. There was no Catholics and (?). We were all (?). And then the separation between the Catholics and the Greeks occurred in 1025, the year 1025, because the, the Catholics, they start to, uh, overload the, become the, uh, especially they believed that the pope was the representative of (?). And the orthodox religion could not stand for it. And separation became until that took place we were separated until, uh, (?). And, uh, and the pope, of 23rd (?), I think it was Pope 23rd, went in Jerusalem and signed an agreement, and then the separation. The dialogue, there is a dialogue now between, going between the Greeks and the, between the orthodox and the Catholics. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Roman Catholics.

MOSCHOS:

Roman Catholics, for union again.

LEVINE:

Well, um, how did you feel taking that train going across the border?

MOSCHOS:

Uh, I was happy that I left Turkey. Uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Going home.

MOSCHOS:

Because I'll never forget when I, I went there, and, uh, they, the first time, after the, when Greece was liberated, and went home for a couple of months, three months. And I was going back Constantinople. And, uh, they would not recognize our passports. They think, because it was a treaty, but it wasn't signed. The peace treaty was not signed between Greece and Turkey. They were the allies, the Greek allies and Turkey. And they had us in a big room. I don't know how we, we did not suffocate, and it's beyond my conception. And you wanted me to pay the fares back that they were sending. I said, "I have," I was thirteen years old. I says, "I don't have any." So, I don't know, somehow we, he (?), he knew it so, my father had given me some money. And then he give me, oh, I got a slap in the face that since then, it's almost seventy years, seventy-five years, and I still feel it, son of a gun. I never, never liked that. I disliked that. I still, I'm a Christian, I should not dislike anybody, but I still don't like them. They're Barbarian.

LEVINE:

So what happened?

MOSCHOS:

He slapped me!

LEVINE:

Yeah?

MOSCHOS:

On the face, (?). That's all.

LEVINE:

And then . . .

MOSCHOS:

And took the money. I had to pay the fare back. I says, "You send me back, you don't let me get." I said, "You pay me, pay the boat, the fare to the boat, and send me. I'm not going until you send me back." MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No, the first time you went in Constantinople.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, that was it. No, that wasn't the first. When I went in 1913, when I went home for a couple of days, I had Easter alone, and then I was going back again. And the same as all, the others went, and I went (?), and I came right back, and I took another boat right back. And my father was there. And we didn't pass through the, uh, I hired, my father hired a canoe, this man. He come in and picked them up from the boat. I give them a, a, whatever is equivalent in those years today to about, let's say, twenty-five dollars. That was a (?), they call it, that's a bribe. And he drove me directly out to the, to, uh, to my place, without passing through the customs.

LEVINE:

I see.

MOSCHOS:

That's ( he laughs ) it was Turkey.

LEVINE:

Yeah. So, um, then, uh, when did you decide, and how was it decided that you would leave? You were in Constantinople when you decided to leave for the U.S.? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No.

LEVINE:

Or you were back?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, no. I had gone. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

We were back in the village.

MOSCHOS:

That was the last time I went, December 12, 1915. I went home. And, uh, I went home, I stayed in (?). I had an uncle of mine there, my mother's brother was in (?), and I stayed with him for a couple of weeks. And I reached home, uh, almost New Year's, in 1916. Then my mother decided to send me to America. I had, uh, my second cousin's husband was here. So we wrote to him, ask him to send us an invitation. There were certain formalities then, that you have to comply with. Send an invitation guaranteeing that I will not, if I come here I will not be a public charge. And he did. But in the meantime it took a lot of preparation, a lot of, uh, paperwork and I had to promise to the Greeks that when I be called to the army I shall return, and I had to leave a guarantee of five hundred, let's say, dollars guaranteed in case I'm called I will come back again, and if I don't I forfeit the guarantee that I promised.

LEVINE:

Did your mother want you to go because she feared that you would be, that the turks would then come after you because you . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No.

MOSCHOS:

No, they couldn't because it was (?). We were liberated in 1913.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. Because from the Balkan War. First you had the Balkan War. The Balkan War consisted, you had Montenegro, Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece. They started a war against Turkey, and they defeated Turkey, and they liberated the whole peninsula, let's say . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The Balkan Peninsula.

MOSCHOS:

The Balkan Peninsula. And most of the Serbs was under the truce. Montenegro was under the truce. Bulgaria was under the truce. Greece, part of Greece was under the truce, what they call now Macedonia, and they claim the Macedonia. Well, there was under the Turkish (?), the Soloniki [ph] was under Turkish in the beginning. And then during the Balkan war, all those places were liberated from Turkey, defeated disastrously Turkey in those years.

LEVINE:

So why was it that your mother said that you would go to the United States?

MOSCHOS:

What will I do? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?)

MOSCHOS:

What will I do? Go in the field in Greece and life like that? There were no opportunities. And, uh, everybody believes to go to America. There were plenty of opportunities. There were a lot of people from the village in there. They couldn't go to Constantinople. And they had to, to go somehow. In, uh, in our places, all you have is mountains, and either you go out and work in the fields and become a farmer . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Or a shepherd.

MOSCHOS:

A shepherd. Or a (?). And so she send me here.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Now, uh, did you have sisters and brothers at home?

MOSCHOS:

At that time I had a young brother.

LEVINE:

And what was his name?

MOSCHOS:

He was six years younger than I am.

LEVINE:

And what was his name?

MOSCHOS:

Elias.

LEVINE:

And so you, so, um, you were the oldest.

MOSCHOS:

I was the oldest boy. My sister was older. She was twelve years older than I was.

MRS. MOSCHOS:

She was married, though.

MOSCHOS:

She was married. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

In another village.

MOSCHOS:

In another village.

LEVINE:

What was your sister's name? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Julia.

MOSCHOS:

It was Julia. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Julia.

MOSCHOS:

Julia, Julia.

LEVINE:

And what, and what was her married name?

MOSCHOS:

Papantonou. P-A-P-A-N-T-O-N-O-U. Papantonou.

LEVINE:

Okay. So she stayed in Greece, and she was married.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, she was married, yeah.

LEVINE:

And so, do you remember packing up what you would take with you?

MOSCHOS:

Well, we didn't know. I took whatever, uh, was necessary for personal hygiene and so forth. And then she gave me, let's say . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Like a blanket.

MOSCHOS:

A blanket. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

A woolen blanket.

MOSCHOS:

A woolen blanket, homemade woolen blanket to take with me. That's the only thing I have.

LEVINE:

And when you left, did, was there any, was there any parting, uh, uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No, no.

MOSCHOS:

No. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

There was the war going, the First World War.

MOSCHOS:

It was First War. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

This was not (?).

MOSCHOS:

He was, yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

But still.

MOSCHOS:

He was (?).

LEVINE:

No. So when you . . .

MOSCHOS:

I went, he was very . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Sad.

MOSCHOS:

Sad. We went, we left, and we had to go to Italy.

LEVINE:

Who did you go with?

MOSCHOS:

We were about twelve, only twelve other people.

MRS. MOSCHOS:

From the village.

MOSCHOS:

From the village, that were coming to America. Uh, among them there was one lady, the wife of a second cousin of mine, the wife of a fellow who was in America. She was coming along with us. She was coming, her brother was coming with her, too. So we were twelve people that came here.

LEVINE:

And how did you leave the village? On what kind of transportation?

MOSCHOS:

Transportation, we took the, to go to the and get the, the boat to the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Corfu.

MOSCHOS:

Corfu. We, first of all we, I had, we had a, a horse, to go to the port to get the boat to go to Corfu. And from there we took the boat, the ferryboat, to bring (?), and (?) who went to, by railroad, to Naples. And there they, they kept us there pretending that they were quarantine us. But it was not the quarantine. That was an excuse that the Italian government gave us. It was the waiting for a boat. And, uh, they were, uh, the German U-boats, if you remember, they were doing quite a terrible job to the (?) in, they were creating havoc and disease. So they went and they put us in a quarantine things, in a barracks, army barracks. And we stayed there almost two weeks. Oh, it was a terrible unsanitary place. It was full of people. And we became full of lice. I'll never forget that. Lice walking on the things like that. Terrible thing. But before we left there, it took everything and they put it through the (?), and they have, uh . . .

MOSCHOS:

Sterilizer.

MOSCHOS:

Sterilized it, and we were clean again. Oh, that was a terrible thing. It kept us twelve days and nothing to wash, no sanitations. Oh, it was terrible. I'll never forgive the Italian government.

LEVINE:

Why were they keeping you there for that length of time?

MOSCHOS:

Well, they were waiting for a ship.

LEVINE:

Oh.

MOSCHOS:

They didn't have no (?). So they, nobody would know. Everything (?) for the fear of the German U-boats. During the day the ship went on very slowly, but at night, oh, it developed such a power. It was unbelievable. You'd think it was flying off the sea. Those days are to get away from the, uh, German U-boats, because the German U-boats at night, they were doing a terrible job. The havoc they created, the havoc in the (?). And in the whole sea, and especially in the North Sea, with the ships sending their supplies to our, to the Allies, do you remember, in the First World War, after America became involved in the, Woodrow Wilson was the president then, and declared to have all of them join the Allies to defeat Germany.

LEVINE:

Well, now, okay. So finally the Dante Alighieri . . .

MOSCHOS:

Alighieri made it, it made it. And the funny part of it, I was the last trip they made to America, then they shipped it down to South America from there. They made no other trip. The Dante Alighieri never made another trip to North America. They went down to South America.

LEVINE:

Wow.

MOSCHOS:

It was an old ship. It was a good, solid ship.

LEVINE:

So, um, what, were you examined?

MOSCHOS:

Yes. I passed through the lines, standing lines, like anybody. But they, what they, they saw, they saw the only thing they looked at my eyes, if you had strychnine [sic], and it was a disease, you know, and that's what they were looking for. They passed, and then when you passed you went through the, uh, customs, and they tell them where you are. And they put a sign in back of, said Worcester. That was for the railroad and the conductors there to know that you were, some were going to Springfield, some were going to (?). So Worcester, they know, when they come in Worcester, we no English, nothing at all.

LEVINE:

Well, do you remember anything about the voyage?

MOSCHOS:

The voyage?

LEVINE:

Anything that happened?

MOSCHOS:

Nothing happened, nothing extraordinary.

LEVINE:

No. How about coming into the New York Harbor?

MOSCHOS:

The Harbor, we came during the morning. Everything had to be early in the morning. And we disembarked, about, uh, ten, eleven, ten o'clock, nine or ten o'clock to go to . . .

LEVINE:

Ellis Island?

MOSCHOS:

Ellis Island, yeah. We passed through the customs, and the doctors.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, do you, did you, uh, remember anything about Ellis Island? What does it, what do you remember?

MOSCHOS:

Uh, the only thing I remember is we stayed in line, full of people. There were three or four lines and the doctors examining. And then the only thing I remember is some people, they were pushed aside, and noticed the depression in their face, and you wondered by the time you passed whether you'd have the same luck as they did or not. That was the only thing that I remember. That I would, as soon as I was given a clean bill of health from the doctor, I became elated.

LEVINE:

So then you went by train? You got your ticket.

MOSCHOS:

They put us on train, we got the ticket, they give us the ticket, bought the ticket on the railroad, they put us on the railroad. Just like sheep, they put us in the railroad. And there was a man ahead of us, and all the people that went, for instance, to, on the railroad to (?) New England, Boston, Worcester, Boston and so forth, they had us in one line, and you went in the boat with a sign in the back saying Worcester.

LEVINE:

Okay. I think we'll pause here while I change the tape.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, all right.

LEVINE:

I'm talking with Cosntantine Moschos, and we'll go to tape two now. END OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE ONE, TAPE TWO

LEVINE:

. . . Janet Levine, and I've been talking with Constantine Moschos, and this is tape two now.

MOSCHOS:

Yes, thank you.

LEVINE:

So we were just talking about, you had the, um, you had the, uh, Worcester tag on your back.

MOSCHOS:

Worcester, back, yeah. And we came from there. When we approached Worcester, I saw the sign, Worcester. Because having taken French in school, I could read the Roman letters. And I, I was wondering why Worcester is pronounced "Wooster," and I couldn't make, understand why.

LEVINE:

It didn't make sense. ( she laughs ) It doesn't make sense.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. It did not make sense to me at that time. And it still, we, evidently we have a tendency of eating some of the words.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Well, tell me what struck you those first few days.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, first few days.

LEVINE:

That was new and different.

MOSCHOS:

We were, in the railroad station, there were our friends from here that come in. And, uh, because, as I told you, we were twelve of us that were all coming to Worcester from the village of Phiniki. And there were a lot of friends from here, waiting for us.

LEVINE:

What did you know about, uh, Worcester, before you . . .

MOSCHOS:

I didn't know anything about it. All I knew, that my cousin's husband was here, and he was quite prosperous. He was working for, uh, a manufacturer. He was an artist, and they were making implements for the, farm implements. It was quite an industry in Worcester in those years, farm implements. He used to have fairs, farm fairs, during the, September or the first of October every year. Afterwards, of course, when California opened up, and things became different, and we have no, we used to have quite a farm in here. I, I acted, first I come in and I worked in the hotel as a bellhop. And after Prohibition came into effect, there wasn't any business in the hotels and the tips were very poor. I couldn't survive. I went, a friend of mine, or rather a cousin of mine, a second cousin, was returning to Greece. He was well off in the business. They had businesses in the village, in (?). And, so, he was going back as soon as the roads opened up and they were able to, to take a boat to Greece. So he sold me his, uh, business. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Horse and buggy.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, horse and buggy business. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

He was selling vegetables and fruits.

MOSCHOS:

Fruits and vegetables. I was a peddlar. I was peddling. And I, I . . .

LEVINE:

So where would you get the fruit and vegetables?

MOSCHOS:

At the, at the market in Salem Street, Market. It's no more there now. Oh, every morning, and that's what I wanted to make. Worcester was quite a farming section in here, in all these villages. The towns, right near. They had a big farming business to come in.

LEVINE:

So you, so you would go riding . . .

MOSCHOS:

I used to go, early in the morning, I had my horse, my own horse, I owned it, and, uh, buggy. And I got up early in the morning, go down to the barn and clean, feed and water the horse and get her ready and, uh, clean it and wash it and so forth. And then go out to come to the six o'clock, to the market, sometimes from five thirty to six, to the Salem Street, and the markets. Go down and try to bargain, fifty-seven or some type market, people from the markets, marketeers. And they sell all kinds of fruits and vegetables that we produce here, and we're producing wonderful things, and buy things by the bushel. I used to, I remember when the season was in there I used to buy a bushel of, uh, tomatoes, fifty or sixty pounds on the bushel, and, uh, for about sixty cents, and I used to sell three pounds for a quarter. I sold six pounds, and I got my money back, and I had the rest of it all profit, clear profit. I used to, in those years, I'm speaking now 1919, uh, I used to make, earn between a hundred and a hundred twenty-five, a hundred thirty-five dollars a week. And I have my horse. And on Sunday I used to take my hearse, a little buggy, and go out with my horse like a king. I was nineteen years old wiser.

LEVINE:

Would you go from house to house, or you go to restaurants?

MOSCHOS:

Yes. I used to go, no strictly retail, going from house to house. I had my business. I would go and peddle or holler around tomatoes to everybody. If someone want to stop in the house, and others would come in and, see, I'd sell them, but I had my regular customers. I had good business.

LEVINE:

How long did you do that?

MOSCHOS:

I did it for about a year, and then in the winter months you couldn't do anything, you stop. November come in, I put my horse up. ( Mrs. Moschos speaks off mike ) No, it's here. I put my horse up and, uh, I used to rent it, there was a place on, just Union Street, and you put your horse up and they take care of it for so much a month. And then I decided to, when I went into, when I bought a business, uh, I sold the horse and the buggy and the hearse and, uh, I had the business, a fruit business. Fruit and, uh . . .

LEVINE:

In a store?

MOSCHOS:

In a store. I had a store. I bought a store in Kenover Street, at 69 Kenover Street, corner Kenover and Garden.

LEVINE:

And . . .

MOSCHOS:

I had it for a number of years.

LEVINE:

So you would still buy produce from the market.

MOSCHOS:

From the market.

LEVINE:

And then sell it in your store.

MOSCHOS:

I'd go to the free market, and go out and peddle to the houses. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Not after the store.

MOSCHOS:

No, not after the store, no. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Before the store.

MOSCHOS:

I had the . . .

LEVINE:

But, I mean, for the store, you would still go and buy these things from the market?

MOSCHOS:

These things, every morning, yes, every single morning. Buy from the farmers and bargain with them. You have to bargain. He'll ask sixty-five cents, you'd give him, sixty-five cents was too much in those days. A nickel had a value. Not any more. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

A nickel you get a ride from the bus.

MOSCHOS:

I'd buy everything, everything that was in the market. Whatever they had they produced was in there available, if I thought I could, uh, I could sell it, I'd buy it.

LEVINE:

Were the farmers that you were buying from, were they of a particular ethnic group?

MOSCHOS:

No.

LEVINE:

The ones from around her?

MOSCHOS:

No. From around here, all kinds of ethnics. There was quite a few Armenians that they had farmers there. And they're still in business out in Auburn and so forth.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So then did you keep the store for a long time?

MOSCHOS:

I kept the store for a long time, until 19, until 1939, I think, '38, '39 or '40. Uh, after the store I bought the, the Coronado Hotel. I named it Coronado, at the hotel for I first come in, I worked as a busboy, as a bellboy.

LEVINE:

That's where you started.

MOSCHOS:

I started there. Bellhop.

LEVINE:

What was the name of it then?

MOSCHOS:

Uh, The New Park Hotel.

LEVINE:

New Park.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And you named it . . .

MOSCHOS:

The Coronado. After Coronado the explorer from Florida.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

California.

MOSCHOS:

California.

LEVINE:

So where um, so then, is that what you stayed, in that business?

MOSCHOS:

I stayed there until 1959, when I went out of business. And the reason being, and they started in, uh, to develop a fellow by the name of, uh, Harrington, I think it was, who owned the, uh, they used to call it the, what, (?). MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) Harold Northeast.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. A fellow, Harold, was the name. I have the, the Bank and Trust Company. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Which was (?).

MOSCHOS:

He, he was a, sold the idea to the common council in those years to develop the run-down section of Worcester, Orange, Salem, Orange Street and so forth, all about twenty acres of land, and they tore it right down. They had factories. They had big apartment places, nine stores in there especially, on Orange Street. And there was big, some big apartments, people would live there. And business started falling down. My business was, after this was . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They took everything down.

MOSCHOS:

They made the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The (?) was everything down. They make it like, the only thing (?).

MOSCHOS:

And then they were deciding what to do with the place. Today, before they take anything down or they, they find the customers . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

To buy it.

MOSCHOS:

To have the apartments that they think they come in, as a basic thing, and then they develop it from there, and then thy start tearing down. Before, Mr. Harold, he was quite a politician. First, before he bought the bank, he was a bank examiner, and he saw that the bank was in a very precarious position. He was smart enough, of course, he was a very clever fellow, he bought the bank himself, out of the, he bought it. And he made a success out of the bank. It was . . .

LEVINE:

And you're saying that . . .

MOSCHOS:

(?) Street or something, the name of the bank. MRS

MOSCHOS:

Elm Street, it's Elm Street, Elm Street.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, Elm Street and, of the bank. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

It's Northeastern now.

MOSCHOS:

And then he was, because of the, he was a great politician. He became president of this committee to tear up and develop this section. He didn't know enough. He wasn't, we didn't have mall in those years, and that was the first development in Worcester, and they didn't know how to go about it. And there's no excuse for Harold, because being a banker and he sold mostly in houses, he should have known that he had first to decide what are you going to do with the place after you tear it down.

MOSCHOS:

They left it like that, and then they got . . .

MOSCHOS:

For years. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They left it like that, they make the library and the Y, the YW, like that.

MOSCHOS:

Even before they sold . . . MRS

MOSCHOS:

And they left the rest like that. And then through the gallery, and then they made the buses, the schools used to go there, and that's out, too.

MOSCHOS:

The, when the . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

For ten years it was just empty, and they wouldn't let people park free there, either.

MOSCHOS:

Well, the library was there. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) come to the hotel and eat, but they didn't let people, one Wednesday my husband went and talked to the City Council, Wednesday nights it used to be, at nine o'clock the stores closed, before it was five o'clock the stores closed, then every Wednesday night it was nine o'clock. So he went and talked, one Wednesday they let him in. Our hotel was full. Downstairs and upstairs. We didn't know where to put the customers, because they park free. And, uh, and suppose Bancroft, next to us, there was a garage. She went and complained, and they wouldn't let anyone park free. So nobody could park free.

LEVINE:

So they couldn't come to the hotel.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. You have to have a parking place.

LEVINE:

Sure. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And then, the thing is before people would go down and go to the stores, go, there was no movement downtown.

MOSCHOS:

There wasn't anything that you see today over the mall or the Worcester Center or something like that. There was nothing in there. Elm Street, that was Front Street there. And where you have the (?) used to be the (?) Company. There were about four hundred people there. Oh, we had, (?) mostly women was working in there. At noontime or lunch, breakfast, lunch and sometimes even supper, we had tremendous business there. That was all eliminated, (?).

LEVINE:

Yeah. Well, tell me how you met your wife. ( they laugh )

MOSCHOS:

Oh, I, in 1928 a friend of mine from South Greece, he was in the business, he was married, I stood for him when he got married. And they, and another young man from the village, we decided to take . . . ( Mrs. Moschos speaks off mike ) Because his wife, he had his wife, to take, to go to the village, home, for a vacation. I took, I had my store, my partner was there and I hired a helper to go an help. And, uh, for about three or four months. So we went to the village, and we had a wonderful time. We took, uh, we had to take a ship to Italy, Naples, and then from Naples to (?). I, we went to the Corfu, and then from the Corfu where, to the headquarters, to the, uh, village. And when you go in there, your mother wanted to marry you. I was twenty-eight years old. And so forth and so on, I didn't, I didn't see any girls in the village that appealed to me. And I was reluctant. I didn't want to. I says, "I've got my business. So I can't stay." So finally I, I saw a picture of this young lady here, and she was in Constantinople. And I was told that she can speak English because she was educated in an English school, she went in the College of Preceptors, that was a school for the, mostly for the, by the English Protestants that had turned Christians, and to support the Jewish people of Constantinople to go and learn the English language, to get educated. And, of course, they went free, and, of course, she had to pay for it. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They taught English, too, and here it was cheap, two English sterlings are here, and then one English sterling for the exams every year. The exams came from England.

LEVINE:

Wasn't it unusual for a girl to be educated in that way?

MOSCHOS:

No. There was only, people that were in business always educated their children. It was the other, the others went to English school.

MOSCHOS:

Her brother was also educated. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

My brother went to Roberts College.

MOSCHOS:

Roberts College. You've probably heard of it. It was a famous college, yeah, Roberts College. Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

We all went to.

MOSCHOS:

And, uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Nowadays you go to French school or English school.

MOSCHOS:

So, well, they told me she speaks English and so forth and so on. I said, "All right. If she comes down, I probably will consider it.

LEVINE:

Well, that means you liked her looks from the picture. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. ( she laughs )

MOSCHOS:

That's all.

LEVINE:

Okay. ( Mr. Moschos laughs ) So what happened?

MOSCHOS:

Huh?

LEVINE:

I mean, did . . .

MOSCHOS:

I suppose my mother . . .

MOSCHOS:

No, an aunt of, his mother's aunt died, and when they die they cook things and everything. So my sister-in-law, my brother's wife, my brother was there, after he finished Robert's College, he didn't want to stay in there, in Constantinople, because the Turks were very hard. So he came to Greece, and just as soon as he came to Greece he had to go to the army. So he got married there, he got married in the village. He married a girl. This girl, uh, Martha, his girl's father was his second cousin because her, her grandmother was my mother-in-law's first cousin. His grandmother and, uh, this, uh, my sister-in-law's great-grandfather were brother and sister. So come down the line, their father and my husband were second cousins. So the grandmother died, there were, my sister-in-law and my mother-in-law were cooking together, and she said to her, you know, she says, "When your Constantine comes here to get married . . ." All the boys are supposed to go home to get married. She says, "You get my sister-in-law." She says, "What?" My mother says, "She's too young." "No, she's not young. She's seventeen years old," she said. "And, uh, you get her. You take her for your Constantine. She'll be just right for him." ( she laughs ) That's all she thought. She says, "She won't come here," my mother said. "Oh, yes, she'll come, she'll come," my sister-in-law said. In a couple of years, he came down.

MOSCHOS:

And that's how we became. So she come down, and we got married. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) got married.

MOSCHOS:

Prize package, and we've been married sixty-four years since then.

LEVINE:

So you came to the village? The marriage took place . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

In the village, yes. To get, in the village, at his home, because our church, now they don't have that. Our church, in the village, down . . .

MOSCHOS:

In the valley. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Down below, the village on the top and down below. Now down below they build houses, too, before all the houses were up. They were up, because of the Turks they were always up in the mountains. And, uh, they used to go through the graves, through the . . .

MOSCHOS:

The cemeteries. Because the cemetery was right in the church. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

A little back, too. But they had to go, so they didn't want the bride to go through the cemetery. So the other . . .

MOSCHOS:

Weddings were being done at home. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

All the weddings were taken care at home.

LEVINE:

So your wedding was out of your mother's house?

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

But, uh, now, now they have it in the, now they don't care about, uh, they don't have that tradition or whatever, not to go through the cemetery. So now they go and get married in the church. Some larger village,s they have two churches, one up in the village, and one down below for the cemetery.

LEVINE:

Well, did you know each other very well?

MOSCHOS:

Nothing. I had never know her. I never knew she ever existed. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

I never knew he ever existed.

MOSCHOS:

The same way. That's why.

LEVINE:

What would you . . .

MOSCHOS:

But we know the history, I know her mother. Her mother had made me, uh, a suit of clothes when I was young, before I left. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Four, five years old.

MOSCHOS:

But I, she had, I knew them. They, in the village, they know their roots, each one's roots from time immemorial. They were born and they die there. They don't go anywhere's else. That's all.

LEVINE:

By the time you met each other, was it very long after that that you got married?

MOSCHOS:

Well, not very, a couple of months, was it? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. Because that was August 24th, and then, uh, it was, I came to the village the ninth, the twenty-fifth of October.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. That's where I met her. Right after church I went and met this girl. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And the 6th of October is St. Demetrius day.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So what did you think when you met her?

MOSCHOS:

( he laughs ) Well, I think she's suitable for a wife. That's all I thought.

LEVINE:

But were you, were you pleased? I mean, did you feel like this was what you wanted to do?

MOSCHOS:

Nothing. So, I don't know. My sisters, I went first to Athens from . . .

LEVINE:

Constantinople. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Of course, the property my mother had from my father, because we left as Greek citizens, but we were Turkish citizens, and, uh, so the Turks took off our property. And, uh, no, my father was there, they didn't recognize him, the Turks. They wanted to take it anyway. So, uh, we ( she laughs ) We went there with Greek papers to Athens, and there was my sister in Athens, and my brother-in-law. And my brother-in-law took us down to Corfu where my brother was waiting, and took us to the village. So my, all the way, all day long, we had to, were on the ship. ( she laughs ) My brother would say, "He's so tough, he's so tough, he's, when the ship goes into the port, he'll be the same height. He and the ship will be the same height." He was teasing me all the time. So you, "When we brought to the port, you look up. Who's the fellow . . ."

MOSCHOS:

Who's the tallest? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The tallest there who comes up to the ship, that's him. I said, "He isn't going to be in Corfu. What are you talking about?" And he would keep on teasing me all the time. And then only my brother was short, 5'8" there. ( they laugh )

MOSCHOS:

That's how we met. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) 5'8".

MOSCHOS:

We didn't even hold hands. She was in there, and her sister, mother was right next to her. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

The other people, the village people came.

MOSCHOS:

And I was sitting here . . .

LEVINE:

It was all set that this was going to happen.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. And all the people came together. At that time we saw each other, oh, there were about twenty people in the living room.

MOSCHOS:

That's the first time I said. And then I couldn't see her because my mother, she says, "You cannot go and see her, because the people will be talking about, in the village." So I abstained seeing her. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Because his mother told him. But he doesn't like his wife, his mother.

MOSCHOS:

I never (?). MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) came to, was married. She got engaged, too.

MOSCHOS:

The only thing . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

She'd go and see her.

MOSCHOS:

We express a few pleasantries together, and that's all we did. We talked, we spoke in English, of course. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And what's more, he brought the, a friend of ours.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

From another village, though. He came down. Not with them, separately. And he came.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. He was gonna be my best man.

LEVINE:

So what was the wedding like?

MOSCHOS:

Oh, it was, uh . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Two weeks, three weeks, the wedding is very, very big there. They don't do it any more. Then it was . . .

MOSCHOS:

Oh, my God, I'll never forget it. People come in with the cakes, and a line coming from the, it was an affair. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Monday they started, they start the dowry.

LEVINE:

Oh, what was the dowry? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, you had to have one mattress. You had to have two sheets, you had to have two pillowcases.

MOSCHOS:

They was all, the tradition there, that's the habit, customs. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They have to have six, uh, village dresses and the wedding dress, too.

LEVINE:

What was the wedding dress like? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

I had my mother's wedding dress because I couldn't make it. I took my mother's.

MOSCHOS:

Beautiful, yeah. A special.

MOSCHOS:

My mother's was made in, uh, in 1875, '85 and three . . .

LEVINE:

'88?

MOSCHOS:

'88. Eighty, she was married when she was fifteen. The dress must have been done before 1880, or 1890.

MOSCHOS:

It was the same as in here, but beautiful dress.

LEVINE:

And did you, you wore a veil? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, yes. I had my own. I had, I didn't have the village dress, but I took that, I took two dowries. I took my clothes that I had in Constantinople, and everything. And then I had the village.

MOSCHOS:

The dresses. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They gave me her own things. Uh, six made dresses, village dresses, and some looked like 1990's, some dresses she had in 1990.

MOSCHOS:

The village dress are very expensive. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah. And then she . . .

LEVINE:

What, is a village . . .

MOSCHOS:

And then she gave me five pieces of cloth to make.

LEVINE:

Oh. Does a village dress mean, is it like a sort of everyday dress? Or it . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

A different dress.

MOSCHOS:

And village dresses, they are made, but they are very expensive. You have, they have the, these, uh, dressmaker in there, the specialty people that do it, make all of the gold things, beautiful, very expensive. Of course, now they have them in the museums, because they cannot afford to be, probably they wouldn't be able to find the materials to fill those.

LEVINE:

Well, how were you perceived, when you came back into your village having been in America?

MOSCHOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Were you, um, considered, uh, a big shot?

MOSCHOS:

A big shot, something like that.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

MOSCHOS:

Because we had our business and we were considered as, as very progressive, or fortunate, or, you know.

LEVINE:

You had done well.

MOSCHOS:

You had done well. You have succeeded in life. That's all. You were an outstanding citizen.

LEVINE:

Well, it must have been a very happy time for you.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, it was accepted.

LEVINE:

To go back to Greece and to your village.

MOSCHOS:

I was happy to go and see my mother and my sister. I had a beautiful, a wonderful sister, and I loved her very, very much.

LEVINE:

This is your older sister?

MOSCHOS:

That's all, one sister I had.

LEVINE:

Oh, one sister.

MOSCHOS:

She was twelve years older than I.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

MOSCHOS:

Wonderful. She was very unfortunate. Her husband died of a heart attack and left her with three children. The youngest, they were twins. And she, about fifteen years old. And the funny part of it, we are two brothers and a sister. We all have twins, and they're all twin boys. Only my twins are identical twins. The others are fraternal twins.

LEVINE:

Oh, interesting. Well, now, what are your children's names?

MOSCHOS:

My children's names are the, I have three girls and three. ( Mrs. Moschos speaks in Greek ) MRS.

MOSCHOS:

I'm sorry.

LEVINE:

I think maybe we should turn this off right now. ( break in tape ) Okay. So you were saying your children's names. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

Okay. So you were saying your children's names.

MOSCHOS:

My children. They were Thalia is the first, Ipheginia, the second . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Virginia.

MOSCHOS:

Virginia. Well, Ipheginia. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

No, Virginia.

MOSCHOS:

Uh, and, uh, Galatia. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Galatia. You don't pronounce them right. Galatia.

MOSCHOS:

Well, Galatia is Greek. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Galatia. Galatia is in English, too. Don't change it.

MOSCHOS:

Yeah, but they pronounce it Galatia. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

They doesn't pronounce it right.

MOSCHOS:

And then Thomas, the third, Michael and Demitrious. Those are the six children. And we have seventeen grandchildren.

LEVINE:

Oh, my goodness.

MOSCHOS:

And three great-granddaughters.

LEVINE:

Great-granddaughters, wow. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And they're lovely.

LEVINE:

Isn't that wonderful. Well, what would you say, um, about having come here as an immigrant, as a young man, and then living most of your life here. How do you think that's made a difference?

MOSCHOS:

Well, it made a difference because I, I have, I was able to produce a family. I was able to educate all my children. Every one of them has college and beyond education. We have lawyers, and we have engineers. We have, uh, my daughters all they have college education. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And Master's degrees.

MOSCHOS:

And Master's degrees. And, uh, and now I have doctors in my family, my granddaughters are doctors, and grandson. And another granddaughter just started this year in a doctor's, medical school again. I have a very successful, I have a wonderful family. I am proud of them.

LEVINE:

Okay. Is there anything else you can think of that you'd like to say before we close?

MOSCHOS:

No. I was gonna say we, I said that we were three brothers and we all had twins. They were all twin boys. The other two were, were fraternal. Only mine were identical boys. And then they were, the funny part of it is that they were all boys. The three brothers, the two brothers and the sister that had the grandchildren, they had their children, but they were all boys. There were no girls.

LEVINE:

Hmm. And did you have twins in your side of the family? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

I had, my aunt had twin boys. But I don't know, it was, it was, my family, also (?)'s family, so . . .

LEVINE:

Yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

I don't know.

MOSCHOS:

I don't know if my, anybody else in my family had them, twins. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

But his grandmother's family, they had twins.

MOSCHOS:

They had twins, yeah. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

(?) I don't think they lived, but they had twins.

LEVINE:

Well, is there anything that you would say, Mrs. Moschos, about, about coming to this country? MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Oh, I'm glad I came to this country. Though I felt bad that my mother lost her property to Turkish, they took it away. Because then if I stayed in Turkey, though I worked in an American (?), and, uh, I was happy there, I didn't know how long it would last because, uh, that's the story, the foreign enterprises. We were closed by the Turks, so they don't proper. So I'm glad I came here, and I had a good life in comparison, and I had beautiful children. So I'm very happy. I came in that way, and my religion so much a part of me, I can express it here and everything, it's a free country. It isn't like Constantinople, where the Turks wouldn't let them have their religion and work free. So I'm happy that I came to the United States. Of course, I miss my relatives and everything there, in Greece.

MOSCHOS:

Just like me. I'm here seventy-seven years in this country here, but never (?). I still miss my relatives in the village where I was born and brought up until I was twelve years old. Still, I have so wonderful memories as a youth, as a young man. And I still think daily of my families and relatives in the old country, how I love Greece, a beautiful country with wonderful traditions, an axle in history, (?) history, which has given to the world, especially to the western world, its history, its traditions . . . MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And education.

MOSCHOS:

And education. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

And the lights.

MOSCHOS:

And (?) the lighter, the Greek civilization as a Western civilization. Like a, a French politician once said, we are intellectually or educationally, we are all Greeks.

LEVINE:

Well, I think this is a nice point to end. I did forget. I wanted, uh, would you say your name and your maiden name so we have it on the tape. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

Oh. My name is Basilike [ph] Strates Moschos.

LEVINE:

Is it S-T-R-A-T-I-S?

MOSCHOS:

S-T, S-T-R-A-T-E-S.

LEVINE:

T-E-S. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

That's how my brother started it when he went to Roberts College, he put, he should have put another T there to make it Strates, but he thought like the French, Strates. He put the E, like Greek, the right way. But, of course, I, I had my name Strati. The feminine of Strates is Strati, so all through school and everything my name was Strati. But when I came here I put it Strates because here we don't have family masculine in English, so I had it Strates.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, I want to thank you both very much.

MOSCHOS:

You're welcome. It's a pleasure talking to you, I assure you. MRS.

MOSCHOS:

You're very lovely. We liked you very much.

LEVINE:

Well, thank you. It's most interesting story, and it will be among those that will be for posterity at Ellis Island in the museum.

MOSCHOS:

Thank you.

LEVINE:

Okay. I've been talking with Constantine, Mr. and Mrs. Constantine Moschos, and, uh, it's August 11, 1993, and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service signing off.