HISTORIAN'S NOTE:

Mr. Chrissos worked as an Immigration and Naturalization Service stenographer on Ellis Island in 1946-1947.

LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. I'm here today, September 21, 1993, with Costas Chrissos, who worked here at Ellis Island from May 1946 to August 15, 1947. Uh, at that time, Mr. Chrissos returned to government employment with the Immigration and Naturalization Service after having served in the army just prior to his employment at Ellis Island. He came here as a 'hearing' stenographer on the Board of Special Inquiry, and why don't we start, you can explain what you did before, and what led up to it, and then what you did after. But let's just start at the beginning. First let me just say I'm very happy that you happened to be here today and we have the opportunity to have this interview.

CHRISSOS:

I'm happy to be here myself, and, as I say, I'm a native New Yorker. I was born on the west side of Manhattan, and I went to high school here in New York. And I started with the Immigration Service back in 1940. And . . .

LEVINE:

Well, first tell me your birth date for the tape.

CHRISSOS:

Oh, I'm August 17, 1920.

LEVINE:

And just before we, um, we move along into this, do you, what was it like growing up on the west side of Manhattan in the '20s?

CHRISSOS:

Well, it was a little difficult, but it's difficult all the time. It's not like it is now. I mean, we did have our problems, but not into drugs or things like that, you know. We, it was kind of tough on the west side, but we weathered the storm with different ethnic groups.

LEVINE:

Were your parents immigrants?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yes. They immigrated from Greece in probably 1919 or 1920. I was born in 1920, so they, I was born just before, uh, just after they had come over.

LEVINE:

I see. So was this a Greek enclave of families where you . . .

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yes. Oh, here on the west side, here on the west side where I lived there were a lot of Greek people, and we sort of congregated together. But, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I played with a lot of different people from different ethnic groups. We had a lot of fun.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Where were you, exactly, on the west side, the neighborhood?

CHRISSOS:

( he laughs ) I don't know if I should say this, but it was Hell's Kitchen, West 47th Street. I lived on West 47th Street between Eighth and Ninth Avenue. That's part of Hell's Kitchen. I mean, and then I lived in different places within that area, between 34th, between 40, 40th Street on the west side and 49th Street on the west side, at different places.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Now, do you remember children immigrating that you, like, went to school with, children who were coming from Europe to the United States when you were growing up?

CHRISSOS:

No. I don't really remember that, no.

LEVINE:

Yeah. I was just thinking we'd get the other side of that, what it was like.

CHRISSOS:

No.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, then, then you went through high school, and how did it happen that you went to work in Washington for the Immigration and Naturalization Service?

CHRISSOS:

Fine. I graduated from high school, and I took a shorthand, took shorthand in high school. And by the time I graduated from high school I was doing about two hundred words a minute. So I took all kinds of tests to go to Washington, and I got a hundred on all the tests because they were just simple tests, you know, shorthand. So I got all kinds of job offers with the federal government, and I accepted this one with the Immigration Service in 1940 in Washington, DC. And I stayed there until I went into the army, and I spent, oh, about three years in the army, and I was in London, Paris and Berlin. And I went overseas really as a stenotype operator because, I mean, what do they call it . . .

LEVINE:

A stenographer?

CHRISSOS:

A teletype operator.

LEVINE:

Teletype.

CHRISSOS:

Teletype operator. And I was so fast at that. So, but when I got overseas to Europe, they noticed my shorthand skills, and they changed me from teletype operator to court reporter. So, as a result, I went to London, Paris and Berlin over a period of about two years as a court reporter. Then came home, and when I came home, since I was still with the Immigration Service, they decided, they sent me to Ellis Island. And that's when I came to Ellis Island and worked for the Board of Special Inquiry as a hearing stenographer, and I really loved the job.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

CHRISSOS:

And then, well . . .

LEVINE:

Well, tell me, um, about the job here. When you came here, were there other employees here that you worked with?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yes. There were . . .

LEVINE:

On the Board of Special Inquiry?

CHRISSOS:

There were a number of people, immigration inspectors. There were also some shorthand reporters. I can name a couple. Bill Fliegelman [ph], Dominique Grenaldi [ph], Tom Galvan [ph]. These were immigration inspectors with whom I worked as a hearing stenographer.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Can you remember the kinds of cases that you were dealing with at that time?

CHRISSOS:

Well, most of our cases had to do with, uh, illegal aliens, and, as a matter of fact, whenever we had such a case, sometimes, sometimes we would give the illegal alien, or the stowaway, a hearing right on the boat. The inspectors and I would go on the boat, we'd conduct a hearing, and then he would be sent back to where he came from without even touching the island. But there were many times when they'd bring them on the island and we'd give them the hearing right on the island. But there were all kinds of cases, you know.

LEVINE:

Think of some case that comes to mind when you think of it, just as an illustration of the kind of thing you were dealing with.

CHRISSOS:

Well, it's that, uh, there were a lot of times when a lot of people who were single would come over from different countries in Europe, and usually a lot of them were prostitutes, they would try to come into this country. And they'd try all kinds of ways to get into this country, and they . . .

LEVINE:

Like stowing away?

CHRISSOS:

No, not stowing away. Uh, they would come as companions to somebody else, things like that. And, uh, somehow or other they'd get on the island, and we'd have to conduct thorough hearings and a lot of, a lot of times we'd conduct the hearings on people who had venereal diseases. You know, they'd come in with the venereal disease, and we'd give them a hearing, and usually send them right back.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

CHRISSOS:

Because they're excludable, or were. I don't know if they still are.

LEVINE:

Well, what were the categories that you were excluding on the basis of? Do you remember?

CHRISSOS:

Uh, I really don't remember, but it was physical, uh, their physical, they just weren't physically up to par the way they should be to come in. And this government just didn't want to take a chance.

LEVINE:

That they would become burdens.

CHRISSOS:

That they would become burdens on, on everybody. On the taxpayer, and everybody.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So what, so, of the hearings that you conducted, what was the likelihood that the person would get sent back? Was it about fifty-fifty, or . . .

CHRISSOS:

No, uh, in the case of stowaways, they usually went back. It was almost a hundred percent. But on these other cases, uh, people would find a legitimate excuse to, uh, to stay here, and we'd let them, we'd let them stay. It was about fifty-fifty, I would say, in those types of cases.

LEVINE:

Well, what would constitute a legitimate excuse? How would they get to stay if there was some problem?

CHRISSOS:

Well, if they had somebody who would, uh, vouch for them, vouch for their, uh, they would have a job for them. They wouldn't be a burden on the community or the country, you know, that type of stuff.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

CHRISSOS:

And then there was a lot of other cases where they may have found relatives in the meantime, who would vouch for them, and then they'd take them in, see, so they would, uh, we'd let them in. Things like that.

LEVINE:

Well, at this period of time, 1946 to '47, would an illegal alien be apt to stay? What kind of time frame?

CHRISSOS:

Well, an illegal alien would, would stay for a while. But they'd have to go through an immigration, Board of Immigration appeals, that type of stuff, and that could go on for years.

LEVINE:

Would they be here at Ellis Island the whole time?

CHRISSOS:

Well, yeah. Yeah. They would be here on Ellis Island, but at the same time they could be, uh, off the island, in the custody of, uh, their, their relatives, you know. They would be able to get off the island until the appeals were exhausted, see.

LEVINE:

Now, was your role, as a hearing stenographer, your role was there at the time of the hearing.

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yes.

LEVINE:

Were there any other duties involved?

CHRISSOS:

No, not really. Uh, well, um, I was there with the immigration inspectors, and usually the person who was being interrogated. And I would take the minutes, the notes, go back to my job, my typewriter and type them up, and then that would be it. Now, back in, just before I left Ellis Island, the way it happened was we had Senator Langen from North Dakota who was chairman of a committee of the Senate up here on a private immigration bill. Well, he introduced a lot of private immigration bills. And one bill that he had introduced for was a Greek boy who happened to be on the island, and they called for a hearing stenographer. I happened, that day, to be the only one on the island. So I took the hearing for him, and not only did I take the hearing for him, but since this boy was Greek I did a little interpreting in Greek back and forth. I was able to get through to the senator, and he asked a lot of questions. And before I left the island, he offered me a job in the Senate. (Ms. Levine laughs ) And that was the last time I was here.

LEVINE:

That was your last case that you worked on at Ellis Island?

CHRISSOS:

After I went back, after I went to the Senate, after I left the immigration service, I hadn't come back until today.

LEVINE:

Wow.

CHRISSOS:

That's something, isn't it, so many years.

LEVINE:

So when Senator Langer offered you that position, did you just take it?

CHRISSOS:

Well, I went home and talked it over with my wife, and we discussed it, and I asked the senator, I told, I said to the senator, "You've better give me time to think about this." So he said, "Well, how about a week?" So he gave me a week, and within that week we had decided that I should go to Washington and I went to Washington. And then I, he was chairman of a committee, and then eventually he became chairman of a powerful Senate judiciary committee in the 83rd Congress, I think it was. And, uh, I went with him to that committee, and I was a court reporter with that committee for about eighteen years before I retired in 1970.

LEVINE:

Wow. Well, getting back to Ellis Island, where did you live when you worked here?

CHRISSOS:

I lived on West 47th Street.

LEVINE:

Now were there, were there, how did you get to work?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, I would take the subway down to Battery Park, wherever you get it, and that's how I would take the ferry to Ellis Island.

LEVINE:

It was like a staff, uh, ferry, for people?

CHRISSOS:

No, no. It was the regular ferry. Yeah, I would take the regular ferry from Manhattan to come to Ellis Island. It wasn't strictly for the staff. I don't think it was strictly for the staff.

LEVINE:

What, was there, what kind of, in terms of numbers, what was the staffing like here then?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, well, we didn't have too many people. We may have had maybe about, uh, half a dozen immigration inspectors, Board of Special Inquiry inspectors, and we may have had maybe about three court reporters. Then there would be clerical help, you know, typists and clerical help.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And were there any hospitals operating here?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yeah. I think there is a hospital, and you can see it from this building. Yeah, I remember there was a hospital, and that's where they kept a lot of these, uh, people with dangerous, uh . . .

LEVINE:

Diseases . . .

CHRISSOS:

Diseases.

LEVINE:

That were being held.

CHRISSOS:

That were being held until they had the hearing.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So were you friendly. Did you socialize outside of work with, with other people who worked here at that time?

CHRISSOS:

Well, just, yeah. I, I socialized with a lot of the immigration inspectors, a couple of the shorthand reporters. It was a nice group. It was a very compatible group. We thoroughly enjoyed each other, and the job we were doing.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, now, can you say anything about the inspectors that you knew and their job here? I mean, just looking at it slightly outside of it, but still an employee, is there anything about the inspectors' job that you could mention.

CHRISSOS:

No, nothing really. Except that they did an admirable job, and they really bent over backwards to help these immigrants. But when there was a case where they just couldn't agree to let them in, he had a, you know, they had to decline letting the person come in. But they were very, you know, that, their manner was very, very good. They were, they helped, they helped them, helped these people in every way that they could. They weren't really out to get them, you know what I mean?

LEVINE:

And what were they dealing with in terms of numbers during, like a typical day?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, well, a typical day they may be having, oh, ten or fifteen hearings, ten or fifteen hearings.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And, um . . .

CHRISSOS:

They usually were short. They weren't that long.

LEVINE:

Oh.

CHRISSOS:

They weren't a prolonged hearing like you see in a courtroom.

LEVINE:

Like a half hour, something like that.

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yeah. Some would be a half hour, some maybe a little more, but some were only fifteen minutes.

LEVINE:

I see. And then would there be, would there be witnesses and . . .

CHRISSOS:

Well, if, if the, if the person that was interrogated, was being interrogated, had witnesses, surely. They'd be heard. They'd be heard.

LEVINE:

And how about interpretation? Uh, from other languages? How was that handled?

CHRISSOS:

Well, we had the interpreters. In a case where a person was Greek, well, I would probably do some of the interpreting, but if somebody was, say, French or Spanish and didn't speak English, they'd have an interpreter do the interpreting for them. And in a case like that, it's very easy for the shorthand reporter, because he's got to ask the question, you know, he tells it to the interpreter, and by that time you're ready to take the answer. ( he laughs )

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

CHRISSOS:

And that would be very easy.

LEVINE:

Now, were there interpreters on staff full time?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yeah, full time, yeah, they were.

LEVINE:

Oh, so they were always here.

CHRISSOS:

They were always here. We always had an interpreting staff on the island.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So connected with the job that you did here, there was, there was the inspector, the interpreter, there was you, the hearing stenographer, and any other personnel?

CHRISSOS:

They had doctors' reports. We didn't have too much to do. In other words, the doctor wouldn't come and testify in a particular case, but he'd probably submit his report, and we would take that, you know, they would take it. The inspector would take that. And that was about it.

LEVINE:

And most of the cases you remember, then, had to do with illness of some kind.

CHRISSOS:

Illness, yeah. There was, uh, every once in a while you'd get a political case, somebody that said the wrong thing about communism and all that, but mostly it was illness, and stowaways, a lot of stowaways. And that was, frankly speaking, I loved that particular part of it, because I'd go right on the boat and whichever boat you were on they'd give you a luncheon. (Dr. Levine laughs) The hearing would usually start about ten o'clock, ten thirty, they'd have lunch, and we'd stay on the boat and then come back, and I'd type up my notes.

LEVINE:

Huh. Yeah. ( Mr. Chrissos laughs ) Were there any particular stories that you remember about dramatic stowaway attempts, or . . .

CHRISSOS:

No, not really, not really. These people were just caught, and we'd give them that hearing right on the boat, and never even have them get off the boat to come to the island.

LEVINE:

Well, now, would they be sent back on the same boat that they stowed away on?

CHRISSOS:

They would be sent back on the same boat that they stowed away on, and I think, I'm pretty sure that the, the shipping line would be fined a certain amount of money, I think it was about five hundred dollars for each stowaway that came over. I think that's the way it was. I'm not sure. But the shipping line would be responsible, and they would be fined.

LEVINE:

Huh. Well, so, um, so the Immigration and Naturalization Service was responsible for the people, you and the people who worked with you. And then the, what would it be, the Public Health Service was responsible for the doctors and the people working in the hospital area.

CHRISSOS:

Yeah, that's right, that's true.

LEVINE:

At that time.

CHRISSOS:

Exactly.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And, um, was there anything else about working here that, that you think about when you remember that time in your life.

CHRISSOS:

Oh, not really. Well, one thing I do remember very clearly was I used to get seasick a lot. Whenever, even on the ferry, which was just about fifteen minutes coming over in the winter, I never did like the water, and I would be standing outside on the deck, and not inside, because inside would be very hot, and it would be rolling, the boat would be rolling, and I really would get sick. People were wondering why I was doing that, and I had to tell them. ( he laughs ) I'll never forget that.

LEVINE:

Wow. Huh. And, uh, let's see. Is there any, how about, was there somebody in charge here that you were working for at that time?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, yeah, yeah. I forget, I forget who that person was, but I've had some real nice supervisors. Very nice.

LEVINE:

And did, did you keep in contact with any of the people?

CHRISSOS:

I kept in contact with several of them. I kept in contact with a fellow by the name of Dominick Grinaldi [ph], although he was not on the island. He was a naturalization inspector with the Immigration Service on 63rd Street. That's where the immigration office was. And I worked for him at that time, for a little while. He was very nice. But the, the people that, that, uh, worked as Board of Special Inquiry inspectors, I lost contact with. I remember a lot of their names, though, but I lost contact.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, maybe we can, uh, make a list of their names in case we can . . .

CHRISSOS:

Sure, I've got three or four names.

LEVINE:

Yeah. We might want to contact them. Uh, let's see. So, um, the basis of your deciding to leave was that you were offered a position with Senator Langer.

CHRISSOS:

Back in the 80th Congress, and he was chairman of the Civil Service Committee in Washington. And I finally went with him after a week, and after about the, at the 83rd Congress, he became chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is a very powerful committee. As a matter of fact, you may see the judiciary committee in action from time to time, and you have seen them. And the only man, the only fellow, the only senator who was on that committee whom I used to know was Strom Thurman. He's still there. But all the others are new, as far as I'm concerned.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, did your work on Ellis Island have some carry- over later in your work when you went to Washington?

CHRISSOS:

Well, not really, except that I, you know, I was taking hearings. And that's what I was doing most of the time, taking hearings.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And how did the hearings differ from, in Washington, that you had to do, from what you had done here?

CHRISSOS:

In Washington, ( he clears his throat ) in Washington I used to take, for example, on the Senate Judiciary Committee, they used to have a lot of these executive meetings. This is before they opened the hearings up, the meetings to the public, years ago, and they could wheel and deal, you know. And I would take those executive, uh, hearings, minutes . . .

LEVINE:

Minutes, uh-huh.

CHRISSOS:

Within that committee. And it had to do with civil rights, or private immigration bill, or private claim bills, or anything. It had to do with anything. as opposed to strictly immigration here on Ellis Island.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. So then you stayed at the government for thirty years.

CHRISSOS:

That's right.

LEVINE:

No, well, all together.

CHRISSOS:

All together, uh, my government service was thirty years.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Were you married at the time that you worked on Ellis Island?

CHRISSOS:

Uh, yeah, yeah. We had just gotten married, as a matter of fact.

LEVINE:

Did you marry after you knew you were coming here, or before you knew . . .

CHRISSOS:

( he laughs ) Well, we got married on October 27, no, not on October 27, November 30th, 1946, I think it was. So . . .

LEVINE:

Oh, so you got married when you were working here.

CHRISSOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Oh. (Mr. Chrissos laughs) So how did you . . .

CHRISSOS:

She came, she came to Washington with me. As a matter of fact, Louise was offered a job with the Pan American Union as a bilingual secretary. She spoke French and Spanish. And, uh, while she was, uh, waiting around to be, to be appointed with the Pan American Union, she got a job with Jack Kennedy when he was just a congressman. And, you know, up on the hill there's nothing more permanent than a temporary job. She stayed up there for twenty-seven years.

LEVINE:

Wow. Tell me your wife's name.

CHRISSOS:

Louise.

LEVINE:

And her maiden name?

CHRISSOS:

Arcamuzi, Arcamuzi.

LEVINE:

Spell it?

CHRISSOS:

A-R-C-A-M-U-Z-I.

LEVINE:

And how did you meet?

CHRISSOS:

Well . . . ( he laughs ) Um, when I came home from Paris, from Europe, right after the war, my father knew her father very well. And he brought me to her house. He wanted to see her father. And at that point she happened to be there. She lived in Long Island. And that's the way we first met. She was only eighteen when I met her.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So then you met her right before you started, no, you had started the job in May, '46. And then, um, did you, did you meet her after that, after you were working at Ellis Island?

CHRISSOS:

Well, I met her right . . .

LEVINE:

You'd married in November.

CHRISSOS:

Well, I think, I met her right, right as soon as I get back from the army, whenever that was.

LEVINE:

I see.

CHRISSOS:

And, uh, that's how it happened. So she, uh, she's got a pretty checkered career, too.

LEVINE:

Well, tell me, so then you both went to Washington, and you both worked in Washington.

CHRISSOS:

We both went to Washington. We both went to, we both worked on the hill. I worked in the Senate. She worked, started off, uh, with Jack Kennedy. Then eventually she, she started having children. And, uh, Jack Kennedy became a senator, and then after he became a senator he called and wanted her to work for him. And she says, "Well, I've got a good job right now with Senator . . ." I think it was Senator McClellan [ph]. She never had any trouble finding good jobs. So he says, "Okay, no problem." And then after he became president, he called her again and wanted her to come down to the White House and she, and, again, she, I think she was working for Sam Irvin at the time, she couldn't leave. She's always had real good jobs. And, uh, like I say, she's had quite a career herself.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And, so what are your children's names?

CHRISSOS:

Oh, well, my son's name is Demos, D-E-M-O-S. My daughter's name is Jeanne, J-E-A-N-N-E. My son and his wife have two boys and one girl. My daughter, Jeanne, has four girls and one boy. And, as a matter of fact, last week my daughter gave birth to the fourth girl. And a month ago my son's wife gave birth to the second boy. (Dr. Levine laughs) The boy's name is Diminitri, and the girl's name, who was just born last week, Elizabeth.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, this is a point where we're going to make a pause to turn the tape over.

CHRISSOS:

Okay. Fine. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

Okay. We're resuming on side B. I'm talking with Costas Chrissos. And, uh, we were just talking about your career, your wife's career, and your children. What do you feel most proud of that you've accomplished in your life?

CHRISSOS:

Hmm. ( he laughs ) Well, the fact that I've had two lovely children who produced eight grandchildren. That I feel very, very proud of. And the other thing I feel very proud of was the, uh, the ability to work in the United States Senate for over twenty-five years. I really enjoyed that. The other thing I enjoyed thoroughly, and it was only because of my knowledge of shorthand, was my career as a court reporter in London, Paris and Berlin. They wanted me to go to Nuremburg, but I couldn't go because my mother was sick at the time. I had been overseas about two-and-a-half to three years, and I figured I better come home.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So you were made a court reporter when you were in the service. You didn't start out as that.

CHRISSOS:

No. I started out as a teletype operator, and I was stationed at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. And I was a very fast typist, and I became a very fast teletype operator. And, as a matter of fact, when I first went into the army, I went into the army in Camp Upton, New York, and they had me typing up insurance forms because I was so fast as a typist. I stayed there for about six months. And usually at a reception training center they send you out in about three or four days to different parts of the country, but they kept me there for six months because of my knowledge of shorthand. So what do they do? I leave Camp Upton, New York, and they send me to Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, which is just about twenty, twenty-five miles out of New York, as a teletype operator, stayed there for six months until I went overseas. Then when I went overseas, they realized I was a court reporter, and they changed my, they call it a spec number, my specialty number, to court reporter, from teletype operator.

LEVINE:

But you hadn't been a court reporter before that.

CHRISSOS:

No.

LEVINE:

No, uh-huh. So, so you were transferred in the army, and then that actually laid the foundation for what you did after that.

CHRISSOS:

Yeah, yes. You could say that.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So, um, well, is there anything else that you can think of, any particular skills that you, that you picked up along the way when you were working at Ellis Island? Uh, is there anything . . .

CHRISSOS:

When I was working at Ellis? I didn't pick up any particular skills, not really. I picked up a particular skill after retiring, though.

LEVINE:

What's that?

CHRISSOS:

I do a lot of duck carving, duck carving. And, uh, it's a very nice hobby. But I do a lot of things, you know. I'm, I'm very much involved in bowling and golfing. When you're retired you can do this, you can do these things. It's up to you, after you retire, to make it work. I mean, you can sit around and just do nothing like a lot of people, but you can also do a lot of things and get a lot of enjoyment.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So how would you describe this time of your life?

CHRISSOS:

Well, I'm having a ball. I'm really having a ball. And, uh, we're doing the best we can with the grandchildren and the children, and we kept very busy. So I can't complain, really. I really can't complain.

LEVINE:

And how was it for you coming back to Ellis Island today, and seeing it again?

CHRISSOS:

Very emotional, very nostalgic for me, very. And, uh, when I went into, I went into the Board of Special Inquiry hearing room, I notice the way that room is set up, there were two rooms where they s-- where they showed the BSI, Board of Special Inquiry. The first room was probably the way it was in the '20s and the '30s and maybe the '40s. But when I was here, it was more like in the second room where they showed the Board of Special Inquiry, where they had the inspector, and they had the interpreter, and they had the hearing reporter, and they had the witness. It was more like a courtroom setup, and it wasn't like it was in the first picture. I noticed that right away. I may have been in that room, but I don't recognize it.

LEVINE:

Yeah. And does the rest of the building look pretty much the same?

CHRISSOS:

Yeah, yeah, it does. Very modernized. They've done a tremendous job. I couldn't believe how nice they fixed it up. Really, it looks very nice. I'm very impressed.

LEVINE:

Well, I want to thank you very much. It was a pleasure to have the chance to talk with you, because this is an interesting phase of Ellis Island and now we'll have this story as part of our tape collection.

CHRISSOS:

Well, thank you very much for having me.

LEVINE:

Well, okay. This is Janet Levine, and I've been talking with Costas Chrissos. It's September 21, 1993, and we're at the Ellis Island Recording Studio, and I am signing off. EI-392/CHRISSOS - 22 -