SIGRIST:

Good morning. This is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. Today is Friday, February 25th, 1994. I'm in Brooklyn at a very lovely facility called Shore Hill with Kathleen Lamberti.

LAMBERTI:

Very good.

SIGRIST:

Mrs. Lamberti came from Northern Ireland in 1921. We've ascertained that she was twenty-two, hadn't quite turned twenty-three yet. (she laughs) Kevin Daley is running the equipment and you may hear a refrigerator in the background on the recording. Anyway, thank you so much for having us up here.

LAMBERTI:

Righto!

SIGRIST:

Can we begin, Mrs. Lamberti, with you giving me your birth date?

LAMBERTI:

Yeah. But I say it to you?

SIGRIST:

Yes. Go ahead.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah. November the 6th, 1898.

SIGRIST:

And can you tell me where you were born?

LAMBERTI:

I was born in Brackney.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that, please?

LAMBERTI:

B-R-E-C, B-R-A-C-K-N-E-Y. Brackney.

SIGRIST:

And whereabouts in Northern Ireland is that?

LAMBERTI:

It's in County Down, along the Mourne Mountains. Beautiful.

SIGRIST:

The Mourne Mountains.

LAMBERTI:

The Mourne Mountains...

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

LAMBERTI:

...or the Mountains of Mourne. M-O-U-R-N-E. Where the Mountains of Mourne sweep down to the sea. It's beautiful.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe the town a little bit for me, what it...

LAMBERTI:

Well, our little town was Kilkeel. It was a fishing town.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

LAMBERTI:

Kilkeel. K-I-L-K-E-E-L. Kilkeel. It's a fishing town there. And it was quite a nice little town where we did all our marketing, you'd go in with your basket on your arm, you know, like we had in the old country. And we were only children. And do all our shopping there...

SIGRIST:

So this is right on the, right on the water?

LAMBERTI:

This is, this, the Irish Sea sweeps the coasts. Right along the whole coast is the Irish Sea, it's there. And our school, you could have run down at lunch hour and dashed into the waves that pull you. (she laughs) You, we had these little pantaloons things on and jumping in your bare feet. Oh, it was fun.

SIGRIST:

Can you kind of describe for me what the downtown area looked like?

LAMBERTI:

Well, it was very country. Ah, ver-, you know, you go back and you look at and you say, "Oh, did we live there?" Very country. And a smattering of little shops there, but good stores that carried all groceries, all your essentials there. We were not farmers. My father was a teacher. And we were not farmers, so you lived on what you bought in the town and maybe a garden where you plant potatoes and all our vegetables.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember any of the stores specifically?

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, I do. Hanna Robert, Hanna's, in, where we dealt, mostly dealt in Hanna's. And...

SIGRIST:

What did they sell at the Hanna's?

LAMBERTI:

Everything, like they do the markets here today. Only not open up like they have today. This is something new that has come here, too. But, we, it was very good. And then, we grew up, and my mother thought there's nothing for you here, although we would have gone into teaching had we stayed there, but we went to Belfast.

SIGRIST:

How old were you went you moved to Belfast?

LAMBERTI:

Ah, we moved to Belfast in, was it during the war? World War One. 19 and 14, I think we, 19 and 14 we went to Belfast. And...

SIGRIST:

Well, before we get to Belfast let's, let's talk about what you remember from your early childhood...

LAMBERTI:

Well, that was our childhood, just romping and jumping...

SIGRIST:

Tell me about your house that you had there...

LAMBERTI:

We lived in, my father, we called it Bleak House. That's one of Dicken's characters, you know. And it really was bleak looking. You see that picture that I have over there drawn? (she indicates) With a house on it? I painted that. And that's taken in the fall. And that was the back of the house.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe it in words for us?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes, it was a, it was a slate covered house. And it had, upstairs we had about one, two, three, about five bedrooms up there. And the parlor. And then, we didn't call it living room. The parlor. No dining room because your kitchen was big as this, (she gestures) where you had the big table, and there were eight of us, you know. You'd get round the table and my mother was a great, although she was a school teacher she was a great cook.

SIGRIST:

Oh, well, tell me what some...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, she cooked...

SIGRIST:

...some of the food she cooked that was your favorite as a child.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, she, oh, my mo-, everything. Roast goose. (she laughs) And we didn't have turkey. I had never seen turkey till we came here. Because they had them but they were very delicate things to rear in Ireland. They tell me. I don't know. But, and chicken, of course. Chicken. You had your couple of chickens and you had your own eggs.

SIGRIST:

Did you have a cook stove in the house...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, we had a grand stove. It was long as that couch. (she indicates) And it's, had, it was beautiful. It had all the steel on it. We didn't have that open fire thing where you put a pot on there, no. Because we were not farmers. And we had a lovely red tile kitchen. You know the red tile? It was a very lovely house.

SIGRIST:

Did you have electricity in the house?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, no. Who did those days. They, they didn't...

SIGRIST:

Did you have gaslight?

LAMBERTI:

No.

SIGRIST:

No.

LAMBERTI:

No.

SIGRIST:

How did you light the house?

LAMBERTI:

You lighted it with a, we had our little lamps. We all went to bed with your little lamp. You carried your lamp up the stairs and down the stairs. And the lamps were lit in the parlor, and you had to trim your wick every day, and fill your oil in there, clean your globe. It was really, when I look back at it I often say I don't know how we managed that.

SIGRIST:

Is there a piece of furniture that you remember specifically in that, that house?

LAMBERTI:

Not particularly, because I don't remember. I was just saying to Nola, we, my sister, we should have appreciated the little things that we had, but we didn't. Not furniture. I don't remember furniture.

SIGRIST:

Talk to me about some of the chores that had to been done as a child...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

SIGRIST:

...around the house.

LAMBERTI:

Get, gather your water from the well. And fill your crocks. The pantry had about four big crocks in there. Big things. And we had to do that before you, before you went to school in the morning.

SIGRIST:

Where was the well?

LAMBERTI:

It was away over in the fields, and you had to go through the corn fields, and get your little pail and dip it into the bucket and carry them, and it was hard. And to wash clothes, it was dreadful.

SIGRIST:

How did you wash clothes?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, my mother used to have the woman next door come in to help her with the big tubs, you know, outside, scrubbing with the boards. And hang them on the, on the hedges, the hedges, and they would get so white. Your hedge was lovely and clean, of course.

SIGRIST:

This would be in the back of the house or in the front?

LAMBERTI:

All around. All around the house.

SIGRIST:

Was it a free standing house, or was it attached?

LAMBERTI:

It was a free standing house with your entrance up and entrance back. A gate in your long entrance in, it was a nice, it was a lovely big house. Bleak, and it was really bleak. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

How did you heat the house?

LAMBERTI:

Coal. Loads of coal. You had your little coal house full of coal. And it was heated through there. And, you know, being in Ireland, you did not feel the cold, but when I went back to visit I couldn't take it at all. I thought it was dreadful. But living there you didn't feel it. When we came out here we thought we'd die with the heat.

SIGRIST:

That's right, because it's a much more temperate climate there.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, oh, oh, oh. You couldn't ever wear your clothes. We had to get light clothes, because the clothes over there are heavier. Even the bed sheets were heavier. On the beds were very heavy, and the feather, the feather mattresses. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Now how, did you make the feather mattresses...

LAMBERTI:

No, I don't know where, my mother must have gotten those from Belfast, because I don't remember any store around Mourne having those.

SIGRIST:

Tell me what your father's name was.

LAMBERTI:

Edward.

SIGRIST:

And tell me a little bit about his family background.

LAMBERTI:

Well, they, they came from Armagh, the Magennis'. My name was Magennis.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

LAMBERTI:

M-A-G-E-N-N-I-S. And I think they were, in fact, most of his family are buried here. In, that's where we came to, was Aunt Bridget when we came here.

SIGRIST:

That would have been your father's aunt?

LAMBERTI:

My father's sister. Sister.

SIGRIST:

Your aunt.

LAMBERTI:

Sister. My Aunt Bridget. And he, he was one of five children. They had, they were farmers. But he gave his farm to his brother James when he became a teacher.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember your father's parents?

LAMBERTI:

No. I remember Grandma Magennis. She was ninety-six when she died.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about her?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, I remember her. She, she was a little old lady, and she had a hump. And we thought that, we used to say to her, say to each other, "Why is she walking that way," because she was a way down. (she indicates) She was bent a way down. She was a little old country woman. Very country. And rather strictish [sic], you know, compared to our mother. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Is there a story that you remember about your grandmother or a certain incident that happened?

LAMBERTI:

No, because, you know, they never lived near us. We were alone in the country. And my mother's mother died in England. She had gone over. She was a great traveller. She died very suddenly over there. But we didn't, we just went to visit the Magennis'. We didn't know them too well.

SIGRIST:

When you say they were very "country," what does that mean? What...

LAMBERTI:

Well, she, she wasn't, my, the other grandmother dressed up with her bonnet and her veil and all the rest, but Grandma Magennis was a very plain lady. Hard working, you know, always working around, where the other lady didn't do that. But they were very different. We used to think they were very different.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about your father's personality and what that was like?

LAMBERTI:

My father, Lord rest him, he was such a gentleman. In fact, his picture's right over there. (she indicates) I'll show it to you. He was a great reader and very religious. My mother used to say to him, "You know, Edward, if you turned the collar you could go up there as well as any of the priests up on the altar." He was very religious. And every night we knelt around him. And he had a big armchair. And he'd kneel up on the chair, and we'd all say the rosary together at night. And that was a ritual. Nobody questioned it. Today they laugh at us. But he was a very quiet personality, my father.

SIGRIST:

Were there other ways that you practiced your Catholicism at home.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. My father would read to us. And read and tell us, read stories and tell us stories. My mother was very, very up on all these things. Way, way beyond her time. Anything that I learned I learned at their knee. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

So the home was a great place of learning for the children.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, my gosh, yes.

SIGRIST:

What else were taught at home?

LAMBERTI:

Everything. My father brought, would bring home the ball frames that you had in school, you know, to teach us. And we'd, we'd congregate together. And I had one sister who went on the foreign missions. She died in the foreign missions just a year ago. And she, she was a regular little teacher. She would gather them around her. And we'd sit by the hour learning to read and to do division and to do all this on the ball frames. I don't think they use these things anymore.

SIGRIST:

Like a, like an abacus kind of thing, right?

LAMBERTI:

Just, just like that, only it was a big, big thing. And...

SIGRIST:

Of course, your father's a teacher, so education was a must have been important to him...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it was very important to my father. And Teddy Peter, Lord have mercy on him, he died quite, he was young. But Teddy was their only boy. And he went to the Christian Brother's school. And he was clever. Very clever. Very clever. But we went, we went, then we left Mourne as I said. At '14 my mother said we'd better get out because there was nothing left there.

SIGRIST:

Tell me how your father got involved in teaching.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, I guess in those days it was a great, what would I say? There's a word for that which means up, for the kind...

SIGRIST:

Advancement?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it wouldn't be that either, it'd be much more.

SIGRIST:

Promotion?

LAMBERTI:

And they thought that Edward going away from farming and going into this, he was something just very, very above the rest of the, the, you know, they all, and even our cousins up in the Bronx that all talk about Uncle Edward, because he was, he was a very clever, quiet person. He made all our cough medicines, he made all our formulas to wash our hair.

SIGRIST:

Can you tell me how he made cough medicine?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, he had, he had all these doctor's books, and he'd stand by the hour mixing this and mixing that. And he gave us, then on the springtime he'd mix a drink with molasses and the sugar candy, and, oh, what's that other thing he'd put in there, to give us for the spring to clear the blood. It made, we used to say, "Oh, we're going to get this again." Sulfur and everything in there. Salt peter. Oh, oh, my goodness. And he'd pass this around, a spoonful in the mornings to each one of us. And in, at the springtime made with a loaf sugar. Not the sugar bowl for the sugar, but the loaf sugar. He'd sprinkle so much turpentine as your years. One drop, two drop, and you're five you got five drops. And we were as healthy as could be. He did all this himself. We never, I didn't know what a doctor was.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember an instance where a member of your family was very, was seriously ill?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. Peter was very ill. Pete...

SIGRIST:

Peter was one of your brothers?

LAMBERTI:

Yes. Peter died after World War One, he died of that terrible flu that was going around.

SIGRIST:

The influenza.

LAMBERTI:

Yes. Plus a little TB in there with it as a lot of the Irish did have at the time.

SIGRIST:

Can you tell me what you remember about, about when he was sick and how he was being treated?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, he was, yes, well, he had gone into a hospital outside of Belfast. And they were very well treated but there was nothing. See, if we had come to this country he never would have died, because I don't believe that they had the, the things to help in those days at all.

SIGRIST:

What else do you remember about that whole experience...

LAMBERTI:

Oh.

SIGRIST:

...and his death. What do you remember...

LAMBERTI:

It was, oh, it was too sad to, to even talk about when he was dying and all that. It was dreadful. He died when he was eighteen. In 1920.

SIGRIST:

And do you remember how, how it was treated, if it was treated?

LAMBERTI:

It was treated very well, the, and they were down there. Forgot the name of the, oh, and if my sister was here she'd remember. So long ago. Seventy-two or three years ago. What was the name of it? White Abbey Sanitorium he was in. White Abbey. Down in White Abbey, down below Belfast. But they did treat them very well, as I said as to the best of their ability those days.

SIGRIST:

And at that time...

LAMBERTI:

And at that time.

SIGRIST:

...this was sort of a common thing...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. Even the cows in the fields, my mother used to tell us, were coughing, that they had TB. My mother used to tell us this in Mourne many, many years before that, you see. The cows are even coughing. The milk was not pasteurized like they're doing today.

SIGRIST:

Was tuberculosis something that when you were a child something to be feared, I mean, everybody guarding against...

LAMBERTI:

We, oh, yes, oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember some of the precautions that you might have taken?

LAMBERTI:

Well, no I don't, but I, my mother would give, one of my sisters wasn't too well, and she's living in California today. She would give her a lot of cod liver oil. I, I often, she laughs at that yet. She said, "Gee, I remember taking that cod liver oil." But she was a sick little girl. But she's fine.

SIGRIST:

So the best way they could, is to ward every off...

LAMBERTI:

To try...

SIGRIST:

...to prevent it?

LAMBERTI:

...to try to ward it off. But if they found anything, they were taken right out of the house, and your house was fumigated, and you had to get out until that was all fumigated and everything. It was very sad.

SIGRIST:

Did that happen when Peter was sick?

LAMBERTI:

Yes. Yeah. And he had, he had been sick and we didn't know that. He had been vomiting the blood and he never told. He was afraid to tell his, my mother, until one of my sisters came and said, "Oh, what's this." And, of course, it was too late.

SIGRIST:

That's a sad story.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm. Hmm.

SIGRIST:

Speaking of your mother, let's talk about her. What was her name?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, Gertrude Carr was her name.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell her maiden name, please?

LAMBERTI:

G-E-R-T-R-U-D-E.

SIGRIST:

And Carr?

LAMBERTI:

C-A-R-R.

SIGRIST:

And where was she from?

LAMBERTI:

She was from Portrush, gorgeous seaside place down there in County Antrim.

SIGRIST:

Portrush?

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

And can you tell me a little bit about her family background?

LAMBERTI:

Well, her family were, they were very upper class family. And they were one, two, I think four of them. But they all came out to this country in silence. Nobody ever got in touch with anybody. I said to my mother many a time, "What kind of a family have you, Mother, that they could go away and not communicate with any either of you?" Because they were all well educated. She was educated in Sheffield in England and was a great pianist, and you couldn't, couldn't stump her in Shakespeare or anything. And yet they were very different than the Magennis'. They were clannish together. But the Carr's were not.

SIGRIST:

Interesting.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about her personality.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, my mother. I think she might have been a, I might be a wee bit like her, because she makes friends very easily. And I do. I love people. And she was the same. She could fill a room by just going in there and talking. She was really, I often say that to my sisters. Gee, I never, Mother was born a hundred years ahead of her time. She was so alert. My father used to say if she (unintelligible) more, she could never be one like herself. She was that type person.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe what she looked like in words?

LAMBERTI:

She was, she was small. She was dainty. Little hands. Little feet. She was very dainty. And I think she was built a little like me. I'm the, I'm the heaviest of any of them. I look at myself and say gee, and Mother was like that.

SIGRIST:

You said that she was a pianist.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Can you talk a little bit about her interest in music?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, everything. She could, she could not play without music. She had to have her music. And we'd go round that, get round there on a Sunday evening and fill that parlor singing, the whole lot of us. She, I, take you at your knee, you were only a little like this when she would have you singing the sol-fa and all this. (she indicates) She was very musical. It fact, the day she died she was playing the piano. She, Nola lived in Jackson Heights and she was there with Nola playing the piano. Went off like a light.

SIGRIST:

Tell me, tell me some other things about your mother, some of her other interests. The things she liked to do?

LAMBERTI:

Well, she, she like, she liked everything. Now, don't think there was thing Mother didn't like. She was a great knitter. She was a great embroiderer. She'd say, "Let me get busy," and I don't know how she learned this because she wasn't brought up that way.

SIGRIST:

She was brought up in a rather refined...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. In a convent among all the nuns and all this, you know. Yes. Oh, yes. She was, she was a great person. And just, played the organ at the church and she was a great person.

SIGRIST:

When you think back about your mother as a child, do you remember an instance where your mother came in and maybe comforted you, or...

LAMBERTI:

She was not much for that. I often, I guess there were so many of us, that there were little steps of stairs here growing up, and she wasn't much for cuddling. I don't think she had time to cuddle. (she laughs) She was always busy. I, she, she real-, when I see, when I think of today when the cur that's taken off, wee people who have babies today, wasn't taken those days. She lived till she eighty-four. She's buried in Calvary here. And never was sick. She had never any veins in her hands or legs like I do. She was, she was just a marvelous person.

SIGRIST:

Now how many brothers and sisters did you have?

LAMBERTI:

Six girls and two boys.

SIGRIST:

Can you name them all?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

Would you, please?

LAMBERTI:

Mona is the older. She's going...

SIGRIST:

Mona.

LAMBERTI:

She's going to, Monica, but we called her Mona. She's going to be ninety-seven now in April. She lives in Pebble Beach, California. Then I came next. Then Bridget, who became Sister Mary of Our Lady of Lassilet. And then came Peter. Then came Angela. Then came Finnuala.

SIGRIST:

Finnuala.

LAMBERTI:

Finnuala. That's...

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that, please?

LAMBERTI:

That's F-I-N-N-U-A-L-A. That's an old pagan, Irish pagan name. She's supposed to be turned into a swan because she disobeyed her parents. It's an old Gaelic name.

SIGRIST:

And who came after Finnuala?

LAMBERTI:

Ita. I-T-A. Ita.

SIGRIST:

So that is a household.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Was there a brother or sister that you were most...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, Mona.

SIGRIST:

...close to?

LAMBERTI:

Mona and I were very, very close.

SIGRIST:

The two oldest.

LAMBERTI:

I guess we always paired together, you know. Bridget and Peter, and we paired off that way. But Mona and I were very close together. In fact we were married the same day. 19 and 23.

SIGRIST:

Wow.

LAMBERTI:

Yes. We had the double wedding. And we, we went out to California to celebrate our golden wedding, those of us who were left. But...

SIGRIST:

Can you tell me about games you played as a small child?

LAMBERTI:

Well, now, there weren't too many games. You know what we used to love to do? And Mona still tells me in a letter, "Kathleen, do you remember us rolling our hoops?" I loved to roll the hoop. You take, the farmers would give us the hoop off the barrel, you know, and you'd get a lovely little thin stick and you'd run down that road. Boy, could we run. Run, and in the summertime I was in, loved to be in my bare feet. I could go down that road as fast as it, spinning the hoop, the hoop. But we didn't have too many games. I loved to get out and climb trees, which my father abhorred. (she laughs) He, he, he threatened to murder me if he saw me up on the tree again. But Mona, she didn't do those things. She was more gentle. I was...

SIGRIST:

She'd be more like your mother?

LAMBERTI:

No, I think I was like my mother.

SIGRIST:

You were more like your mother.

LAMBERTI:

I think I was a little more boisterous.

SIGRIST:

I see.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah. Mona was very, still is, you know.

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me what you remember about moving to Belfast in 1914.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, that was bad.

SIGRIST:

Tell me why you moved first of all.

LAMBERTI:

We moved because my mother couldn't see anything for us left in Mourne.

SIGRIST:

Was this just before the war started, or...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, no, it was, the war was just beginning. Just beginning. And, and I was in the British army. I joined it at seventeen. Mona was in the British army. She had gone to Tipperary and I had gone to Dublin. But I never left the country because we were too young. The wouldn't let you go overseas.

SIGRIST:

Well, good. Well, I do want to talk about World War One. But talk to me specifically about the move first, how you moved. What do you remember about the actual move?

LAMBERTI:

Well, the, the move wasn't a very good one because we really didn't, you see, my father was very badly paid under the British government. The, the teachers were poorly paid those days. And my mother said, 'Well, let's go." So we went down to Belfast. We didn't live in the nicest spot because we couldn't find a place then. And like everywhere else, it was like coming here, you just graduate up. But it wasn't a very good move.

SIGRIST:

How did you actually move?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, we took...

SIGRIST:

How did you move like the furniture and all...

LAMBERTI:

...oh, I don't remember. I remember we had, there were no conveyances like today moving anywhere. There was a long car that went to Belfast, and went on so many hours a day. You had to catch that car or you missed it.

SIGRIST:

This is a train?

LAMBERTI:

No, no, a car drawn by horses.

SIGRIST:

Oh, oh.

LAMBERTI:

And it was on either side like, do you see the sidecars, my Irish jaunting car? (she indicates) Well, it was like that, only a big thing as long as this room. And there were passengers on either side. And you could put trunks and thing [sic] in the middle of it there, and, and the bars, thing in there. And that went to Belfast. And then my mother had our furniture sent down. And we went in the long car. There were no conveyances. And we used to think it was so far away, and sure it wasn't far away. Gerry and them were over there. They'd take a car and they could be over there in three quarters of an hour. We thought that was the other end of the world. It wasn't. But it had to be with the horses going along the roads those days.

SIGRIST:

It took a long time.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it did. And there were double horses. There weren't single horses, double that took that big car. Oh, I used to love to get on that car, and ride in the long car. But that's how we had gone to Belfast.

SIGRIST:

Now you said you moved into a not particularly nice place.

LAMBERTI:

Not, not, no.

SIGRIST:

Describe the house that you moved into.

LAMBERTI:

Well, there are different kinds of houses in Belfast. There are parlor houses and kitchen houses. I don't understand that, but that's the way they were. But first we had a kitchen, which meant your kitchen was to the front, which was not supposed to be classy. (she laughs) So finally then we, we, we all got jobs, got little jobs in banks and, and butcher shops, doing cashier stuff and all this stuff. And we got into a parlor house. And we were very swanky, as we thought. And then the war was raging, of course. World War One was raging. And...

SIGRIST:

Was your father teaching in Belfast at this time?

LAMBERTI:

No, he was still in Mourne.

SIGRIST:

Oh, he was still in Mourne...

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

...but the family just moved to Belfast.

LAMBERTI:

He would come down to, on the weekends to us. No, he would not give up teaching.

SIGRIST:

Well, that must have been difficult for you.

LAMBERTI:

It was very hard. Very hard on my mother. But he, he stayed teaching. He's, in fact, he was forty-two years in that school.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother get a job when you went to Belfast?

LAMBERTI:

No. She should have, but she didn't. My mother loved to get out, downtown to the theatres and the, great person to get out shopping and theatres, always going to a theatre or something...

SIGRIST:

Well, and Belfast was a city. I mean, you're moving...

LAMBERTI:

Belfast was a beautiful city, and a very industry [sic] city. But look at it today.

SIGRIST:

Well, talk a little bit about what you remember about World War One, and...

LAMBERTI:

Oh.

SIGRIST:

...and when it came and how it effected your family.

LAMBERTI:

No, it didn't effect our family because the others were very young. It was just Mona and myself, because Bridget had come out to this country to my aunt. And this is the nun that joined the convent. She, my aunt Bridget took her out here in 1916, just before the Rebellion. And, and then there was just Peter and Peter was so sick then. But it wasn't, didn't interrupt us in any way.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about, about maybe the political climate at that time or...

LAMBERTI:

Well, the political climate then was not so bad as, until after the 19 and 20's. And I really was a rebel those days, too. You couldn't help but. And the armored cars would chase you down the block at night.

SIGRIST:

So this would all be after the revolution?

LAMBERTI:

After the war. After the war.

SIGRIST:

Yeah.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Before we get away from the war you mentioned that, that you joined...

LAMBERTI:

The British army, Queen Mary's army.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about that experience.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it was lovely. It was really lovely, because I was with the British soldiers. They had gone to Dublin. Mostly British and Scottish. And I couldn't say enough about those men. They were just gentlemen.

SIGRIST:

What did you do? What were your duties?

LAMBERTI:

Office work. Very light office work. In fact I don't know how I got away with half of it. (she laughs) It was such fun. And it was really lovely, and going to dances in Dublin and into all these. And they were all so lovely. And we just hated it when it was all over because it really was wonderful.

SIGRIST:

Sure, the war has a completely different meaning to you, doesn't it?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, sure. You're young. You're what, seventeen? And so different, you know.

SIGRIST:

Did you have a uniform that you had to wear?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe it?

LAMBERTI:

It was brown. And our little, and our brown hats that turned up. It was a brown uniform. Mona had a picture taken. I never had mine taken. Mona has one. And I looked at it, said, "Oh, why didn't I get one taken like that?" Very, it was very, they weren't, they would never flatter you, but it was nice to see.

SIGRIST:

In, in Belfast at that time did you undergo any maybe food shortages or rationing of any sort?

LAMBERTI:

No. When they did ration, we didn't get much butter. (she laughs) But going up the Antram [PH] Road one night these two British soldiers as I thought said hello. I said, "Oh, don't you dare speak to me." British soldiers speaking to me. But I heard the Irish accent from the south of Ireland. I said, "Oh, are you Irish?" And he said, "Yes, we're Irish." I said, "Well, you ought to be ashamed," and after me wearing it myself. I said, "You ought to be ashamed to be in that uniform." So they told me that they were from County Tipperary. Oh, they turned out to be two of the nicest young men. And my mother loved those, I said, "Would you like to come up to our house for dinner," because they were in the barracks there and I knew what that could be. So my mother had, we had them for breakfast, lunch and dinner, many, many days. So when they went back home they sent us loads of butter and eggs and, oh, they were lovely people. And that's, we didn't know them, really.

SIGRIST:

Just a little bit of kindness.

LAMBERTI:

A little bit of, thrown in there, just by walking up the road and talking to them. They were really very nice. END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE

SIGRIST:

When, before you joined the military, did you get a job? You said the brothers and sisters all...

LAMBERTI:

I got...

SIGRIST:

...got cashier jobs and that sort of thing.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Did have a job before you got involved with the military?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, I did, but it was a very menial job. I was in a, in a, in a restaurant in, down in Royal Avenue in Belfast. It wasn't doing a waitress's job because, you know, Catholics could not get jobs. It's a sad thing to say...

SIGRIST:

Can talk a little bit about that, and...

LAMBERTI:

Oh.

SIGRIST:

...and being Catholic at that time and the conflicts that were going on even then...

LAMBERTI:

It was very hard. I've seen us go to church and the British soldiers guarding you from your own Protestant people firing on you going into church on a Sunday. It was very sad. They put the Union Jacks out along the, dare them to fire on them. But the British soldiers did fire on them to guard us to go into church many a time. Hmm-hmm. It was a sad time in Belfast, and we had come out here then, and it got worse when, after we came here.

SIGRIST:

Yes, after you came here.

LAMBERTI:

In 19 and 20. 19 and 22 it was bad.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about the revolution in 1916 and...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, that, to 19 and 16, see, that was mostly in Dublin. And, and that was dreadful because you we were keyed up to the point where everybody was ready to go. But that was mostly in Dublin. We didn't have much of a reaction around Belfast those days. It was rather peaceful.

SIGRIST:

So in Belfast, really the, the big problem is, is the differences in the religious beliefs?

LAMBERTI:

Catholic and Protestant. And, you see, they, the Scottish came over there, and pushed the Catholics back and took the best farms and everything there. And plantated [sic] in the north, right around Derry and Donegal and Belfast. And this started the whole thing. That's maybe two hundred years ago.

SIGRIST:

Sure, and the Scottish, of course, were all Protestants.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, oh, yes. Oh, yes. They were Presbyterian. Good people, but they were Presbyterian. And they didn't want now, now the North has gotten to the point where religion is the main topic. "To hell with Pope" is written up on the gables of the houses. Just like you see the graffiti here.

SIGRIST:

Now, was there a problem between the Catholics and Protestants in the fishing town that you grew up in before you moved to Belfast?

LAMBERTI:

No. No, there was nothing then. Although, they were very, where we were they, they'd be practicing for the Twelfth of July, which is a big day for the Protestant Orange people. And my father, I think we were the only Catholics on the road maybe for five miles. And when they would come up the road with the big drums, you know, practicing and, and the drums screaming, they'd stop, and my father would go out to the gates to see them, to meet them. And they would say, "Master, we, we don't want to play the drums, Master, they'll waken the wee'uns," the children. So my father would say, "Oh, play, boys, play." But he was, my father was just, would be in with them all. But they did respect him. They wouldn't...

SIGRIST:

So the violent conflict really is, is an urban problem. It's really...

LAMBERTI:

Ach, yes. And I think it's, I think it's all ignorance on both parts. The Catholic is to blame just as much as the Protestant, only they're much in the minority in Belfast and around the north there.

SIGRIST:

And at that time, too?

LAMBERTI:

And at this time, too. Oh, yes, at that time, too. Of course this time, too. Yes, of course.

SIGRIST:

You know, one thing I meant to ask you before, sort of off the subject but I'll ask it while I'm thinking of it is did you all speak Gaelic?

LAMBERTI:

We weren't allowed. You weren't allowed. I learned to say the "Our Father" and the "Hail Mary" and to bless myself. (She prays in Gaelic) But you were not allowed to speak the Gaelic. They would, they would try to teach you your prayers, and they'd turn it religious instructions and this. See, the British coming, and turn it round again. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

So the British kept a heavy hand at that time?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. But they, they are learning it now throughout all Ireland. But it's not a must.

SIGRIST:

Right.

LAMBERTI:

It's not a must.

SIGRIST:

So you were just now allowed, that's what...

LAMBERTI:

And it's kind of dead language, anyway. What, will you tell me what good is it? And to, to, to speak it, it sounds horrible, I think. But I don't know. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about your sister going to America in 1916.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, well...

SIGRIST:

Why did she, why did she...

LAMBERTI:

Aunt Bridget was childless.

SIGRIST:

This is your father's sister...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...who's already in this country?

LAMBERTI:

Yes. She lived on Carrol Street. Do you know Brooklyn at all?

SIGRIST:

A little bit.

LAMBERTI:

Well, she lived away down Carrol Street there. And she, she was called for her. And she was a lovely little red head. That's her picture there. (she gestures to a photograph) In that dress there when...

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

LAMBERTI:

...because she was still young. And she was beautiful singer. God bless us, she had a voice. Just beautiful singer. And Aunt Bridget took her out here. And...

SIGRIST:

Did she want to come?

LAMBERTI:

Well, she was only a child. She was only, 19 and 16, I think she was, how old would she be, sixteen? She was right after, she was right after me.

SIGRIST:

So she was a young lady.

LAMBERTI:

Yes. With her hair hanging down her back. About sixteen. And she had to go to Liverpool because the, the rebellion was in Belfast. They couldn't get sailing at all, it was all over. And they went to Liverpool for her sailing. So she came out here to my aunt's. And instead of my Aunt Bridget educating her, she took to the convent. And Aunt Bridget said, "She almost told me, 'Go away. I want to join the convent.'" She joined the Good Shepherds in East 90th Street in New York. And she went foreign mission. She went to France to, to be professed in France. And from France she went off to Sri Lanka. And she died in Sri Lanka. We had her here. She was here in Shore Hill. And she could have stayed here. She could have, not here, but she could have stayed in the convent. "No, I must get back to my mission." So she died there.

SIGRIST:

Interesting. Did she ever write to about America?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes, she wrote many, many times.

SIGRIST:

What did, what did you know about America when you were growing up?

LAMBERTI:

We thought this was, you know, when I used to see the moon shining, going down to the town and see the moon shining in Mourne, I'd say, "Oh, I wonder if that moon is shining in America. The people in America must be looking at that moon." We, America was our, we learned to sing all the rebel songs that you sing here from, American songs, I could sing everyone of them, "Dixie," and every one of them before we came here. Because we were just, America, that was all we lived for, to see America.

SIGRIST:

Why do you suppose everyone wanted to be in America?

LAMBERTI:

I don't know, my child, dear. If you lived there the way that you were treated you would want to be in America. You would want to, you would want to. And when, then the sad part of it, when we did see it, we, we weren't too happy. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Now, when your sister, which sister was it who went with Aunt Bridget?

LAMBERTI:

Bridget.

SIGRIST:

Bridget? When Bridget went with Aunt Bridget...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...to America...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...did she like it here?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. The little monkey never would think of coming back to see us or to tell us anything. Oh, she loved it here. And she, this girl, this girl here I think was gifted.

SIGRIST:

Your sister, Bridget.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. Absolutely gifted. I have beautiful writings that she has done. She's just...

SIGRIST:

But she liked it?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

When she got to America she liked it here?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes, oh sure, but she didn't, I think, I don't know whether she didn't want us to come, that whether it was she, she thought she'd be put out if we came, you know, they're a wee bit jealous there. That she didn't brag too much until we got here. And we thought we'd see her here, but she was on her way to France when we were on our way here. So we missed her completely. I hadn't seen her for years. I hadn't seen her until 19 and 50.

SIGRIST:

That is a long time.

LAMBERTI:

And she came in 19 and 50. And she went into Saint Vincent's hospital to get a good checking over. She wasn't allowed to visit us then at all because they were cloistered. But when she came the last time here she could visit. But she just, she, she wanted the mission. She didn't want to be here. They begged her to come and stay here, but no. No.

SIGRIST:

Who in your family in Ireland really wanted to get everybody to America?

LAMBERTI:

My mother. Not my father. My father came here to visit. In fact when he retired from school, Mother and he came back here. He couldn't stay.

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me about, about the conflict between your mother and father about bringing the family to America.

LAMBERTI:

No, I don't...

SIGRIST:

Why did your father want to stay in Ireland?

LAMBERTI:

I don't understand, I, I often said to Nola, "Why did my father allow my mother to come here?" And take us all.

SIGRIST:

That's right. She took everyone.

LAMBERTI:

She took us all. But why did she, why did they? And he never said "boo." I said to Nola, I don't remember my father's face when we said good-bye to him in, you know, you, you were too keyed up to get to America. To get on that boat in Liverpool. I don't remember. He must have been heart broken.

SIGRIST:

He's losing his whole family.

LAMBERTI:

He lost everything. I, I said to, and yet he welcomed my mother back. She stayed here two years. Got us all settled here. She took Ita and Nola back with her. She left Teddy, Angela, myself and Mona here. And we were strangers. Aunt Bridget didn't bother with us.

SIGRIST:

And then she went back to join your father?

LAMBERTI:

She went back to join my father, and stayed there. And Nola had gone through school. She had gone into, for typing and all this stuff in school. And Ita was still, Ita was only ten then. She was about twelve. She was still in grammar school. But my father, then my mother came back again with Nola. She travelled the ocean about six times...

SIGRIST:

Back and forth.

LAMBERTI:

I never saw the like of it. I said to Nola, "How many homes did my mother break up?" She loved to travel.

SIGRIST:

Tell me about what you remember about getting your papers and all of that...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, that was terrible...

SIGRIST:

...in 1921.

LAMBERTI:

...and getting, getting your...

SIGRIST:

Where did you have to go and...

LAMBERTI:

Well, I, my mother did most of that. And then the doctor giving us the inoculations to get here, and all...

SIGRIST:

That happened in Belfast?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. And we're all going up there. But we thought we'd never get out of Belfast quick enough. We couldn't get out of there quick enough.

SIGRIST:

You never really liked it there, anyway.

LAMBERTI:

No. And it was snowing the night we, that was the twenty-first day of April, it was snowing like mad, on one of those sloppy, snowy nights. And you, you weren't allowed on the deck on that little boat going across there to Liverpool. And I'll never forget that night. It was dreadful. I don't know how we survived.

SIGRIST:

Now do you remember what you packed? What did your family take with you to America?

LAMBERTI:

Well, we didn't take, mostly food. (she laughs) We took with us, coming over Mother had all kinds of cakes and buns. And Teddy (she laughs), Teddy would always smell when we were making the tea. He was always, "Is the tea getting ready?" Down in, down in that awful place where we were in that ship. It was terrible. We went the cheapest way. What was that...

SIGRIST:

Before we get on the ship, tell me about your actual luggage. What did you take with you?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, we didn't, all our clothes. No luggage. I mean, mostly clothes. No, no furniture or anything like that.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember taking something with you personally that was going to be a reminder of Ireland?

LAMBERTI:

No. All we had was our, Mother got all our clothes, made, lovely kilted skirts and, you know, the clothes were heavier. And we had all these beautiful clothes coming here that I'll tell you later what happened to them. But that was all, take, and getting all, getting the, the little ones, and getting them all settled on the boat, and carrying, we had lots and lots of luggage.

SIGRIST:

Now, you left from Belfast, and then you took a boat to Liverpool...

LAMBERTI:

We had to, yes.

SIGRIST:

...from Belfast.

LAMBERTI:

Yes. You have to.

SIGRIST:

This is the snowy night that you remember.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And it's, it's your mother, and it's everybody but...

LAMBERTI:

And my father came, too, to Liverpool.

SIGRIST:

To Liverpool?

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

But you said you don't really remember...

LAMBERTI:

I don't remember his face, leaving, because I guess I was too excited helping my mother on with the things and running on the ship.

SIGRIST:

Now, when you arrived in Liverpool, did you have to say in Liverpool before you...

LAMBERTI:

We stayed all night.

SIGRIST:

You stayed overnight.

LAMBERTI:

With a cousin of my mother's who lived there.

SIGRIST:

Was there some kind of a processing center in Liverpool before you got on the ship?

LAMBERTI:

I don't think so. I think it was, my mother had everything very ready. She must have had some processing, but I was, I, Mona, she, she practically helped me mother, but I was the one that was watching the little ones and, (she clears her throat) excuse me, and carrying on all the stuff.

SIGRIST:

Well, there were a lot of kids...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah. And they were all, they were all young.

SIGRIST:

Right.

LAMBERTI:

(she clears her throat) Teddy had the red head with the skull cap and the little short pants and all that on, you know. And we were really, I don't know what we must have looked like, but...(she laughs)

SIGRIST:

So the next day you boarded the ship. And what was the name of the ship?

LAMBERTI:

"Celtic."

SIGRIST:

And can you tell me what, of course, you grew up sort of in a fishing village...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

...near water, so, so what were your first impressions of the boat?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, I loved the boat, but Mona got very sick and so did Nola. But I loved the boat, but...

SIGRIST:

Can you describe where you slept for me?

LAMBERTI:

...we were, we, oh, that was dreadful. We were steerage. That was one of the lowest of the low because we had no money. We came steerage.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe what it looked like?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it was, I, I can imagine, I can imagine telling it was very dirty, and there were bugs and things that we had never seen. It wasn't...

SIGRIST:

Were you all in a cabin?

LAMBERTI:

Different cabins. I think there were a couple of cabins, but true, they were dreadful. You wouldn't put a dog in them today.

SIGRIST:

Was there water, did you have running water or anything in the cabin, or?

LAMBERTI:

I don't remember. Oh, we had because my mother could make tea. She had, I don't know how she made it, but she made it.

SIGRIST:

That's right, you said Teddy was so interested...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, Teddy. Uh-huh.

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me, tell me a little bit about the boat and what you remember about the actual voyage across.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, we would get out on the deck, and there were a lot of Irish there that we thought really they were not Irish because they never spoke English. They spoke Gaelic. They came from the Arran Islands. They do speak Gaelic there. And they were tall. Oh, they were about six foot, near seven foot. (she laughs) And they had all the spun clothes, you know, all their, this. And we thought, "What are they? Who are they?" But they were Irish. And they never spoke to anyone. They had all their own breads, all their own food. Piles of it. And they'd congregate in a corner of the boat, and eat all day long and talk (she imitates the sound of Gaelic being spoken) all day long to themselves. But they didn't mix with us, and they were really Irish.

SIGRIST:

Was that like the first time you had ever seen...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, well, you see, that was it because you saw no one, only your own kind there. And we were all looking at these people. And then we were coming, it took us a long time to come over.

SIGRIST:

And even your, your father's parents who were country people...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...you said weren't quite like this.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, no, these people, they, you know, the pants were not pressed pants and they were big, baggy things on them. But they were all homespun. I'm sure they, I'm sure they did very well in this country because they looked that type people. But they didn't look Irish. They looked more Spanish, coming from there. And they didn't mix with us at all. No, they didn't mix with us.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember where you were fed on the boat?

LAMBERTI:

You were fed downstairs, down in the cabin, but we didn't eat much of it because my mother brought most of it with us. We were, Mother was a terrible finicky woman that, that way. And we danced among ourselves and we sang among ourselves. And we met a lot of, we'd all get out and say our prayers together, and, you know the Irish those days, they were very, they're not like that today as I hear. But we were very saintly. Maybe more than Godly. But...

SIGRIST:

Did they offer church services on the boat. Do you remember...

LAMBERTI:

No.

SIGRIST:

Nothing like that?

LAMBERTI:

No.

SIGRIST:

No.

LAMBERTI:

No. Not then. No, nor I don't think they do, either, anytime.

SIGRIST:

What about Mona? You said she was so ill.

LAMBERTI:

And Mona was...

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about her sickness?

LAMBERTI:

(she laughs) She, the poor thing. (she laughs) She, she, when we were coming over there was a young fellow on the boat, fell in love with her. And he finally, he did marry her, though. She had six children. And Mona got awfully sick. And we tried to get her up on the deck. "Don't, don't take me up there," because you know how the boat hits you and how it does effect you. And, but she, we just laid her out and let her lie there. She did not like, she, even, even riding in the car she gets that way, but the boat was dreadful. "Don't ever ask me to go on a boat again." And she, I, she did go on the boat again. She went back to visit and she was all right. But I remember she was awfully sick.

SIGRIST:

Did they have safety drills on the boat that you can remember?

LAMBERTI:

Yes, they did. And we really used them when we, we really did use that. We were coming into Newfoundland. And oh, was it choppy. Said, "Oh, my God," and said "Life belts on everybody." So the life belts, we were all given life belts. And everybody, the Irish are all in the corners kneeling, "Holy Mary, Mother of God," praying away. And the boat's going this way and this way (she gestures) and well, they really thought they had it. And out of the fog, it was a terrible fog as there always is off the Newfoundland banks, out of the fog we look over the side of the ship, and here's another boat, I swear he wasn't that far from us. (she indicates) We said, "Oh, look what is going to hit us." I don't know how the captain saved our ship because it was an old, raggedy old boat, that old Celtic. It was terrible. And, but we avoided it. We saw this thing in the water, big, this big tanker that I see going up the river here. I don't know how they missed us. Well, you want to hear the dancing and the singing after that for the life belts. Everybody had a life belt. We were all ready to hit the water. Can you imagine, wee people, and, and my little sisters getting in the water? Oh, that was dreadful. But everybody was kneeling. There were little circles all kneeling, praying away. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Tense moments. (he laughs)

LAMBERTI:

Tense moments.

SIGRIST:

How, how long was the, the ship's voyage?

LAMBERTI:

I think it was ten days.

SIGRIST:

Ten days. And this is in April.

LAMBERTI:

And this was in April. And, you know, that old boat was wrecked on the coast of Ireland, oh, a couple of years later, she was lying there.

SIGRIST:

And that was an old boat...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, she was an old...

SIGRIST:

...in 1921 it was an old boat.

LAMBERTI:

...she was an old boat.

SIGRIST:

That's right.

LAMBERTI:

Because the Cunard Line those days, they, you know, that, they ruled the sea. Yeah. But...

SIGRIST:

Do you remember coming into New York Harbor?

LAMBERTI:

I do, and we thought it was glorious. We said, "Oh, this is beautiful, oh. I envy to see anybody walking on, I wish I could be walking beside those people." When we went to Ellis Island, I saw all the people walking, you know, taking people off, and we were so mad that my Aunt Bridget did not pick us up, that we had to stay all night.

SIGRIST:

At Ellis Island?

LAMBERTI:

At Ellis Island.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember seeing the Statue of Liberty?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about that?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, everybody cheering and shouting and waving and, oh, yes. But the glorious part was to get your foot on the soil.

SIGRIST:

So what happened? Did the boat dock first and then you were brought to Ellis?

LAMBERTI:

We were brought to Ellis Island.

SIGRIST:

And then what happened? Can you just explain to me the, the whole process from when you first got there.

LAMBERTI:

Oh. I thought it was dreadful. We were put in rooms. You know, we had never had, mixed with people who did not speak English. And these people, I don't know what part of the world they came from, but boats, a boat load must have come in with all these people with their little things tied round their heads. Little carpet bags carrying them. And they're talking in their own language. And my mother's sitting, you know, and with the brood all around her, you know. She, "Oh, why did we leave Ireland? Why did we come here? Listen to this." And they had a big room where they served dinner. And there's a long table and down the middle of the floor. And a man walked in the middle of the table pouring coffee. (she laughs) Walked in the middle of the table. And had a big coffee thing that he'd pour there and pour here and pour. Oh, we said, "What's this? This is dreadful." And that evening there was a movie. Said, let's go, let, we'll all go to a movie in, in the building. These people must have never seen a movie, because there are plenty of movies in Belfast. And they were cheering and shouting when the, when it was sad and crying, lovely parts of the picture. My mother said, "Oh, let's get out of here. These people are savages. They, I don't understand this." So we, we finally couldn't take it, so we left there. So we're sitting in the big room, and this woman came in and she said, "All foreigners follow me." So I said, "Mother, let's sit." So we sat. So she came back and she says, "Didn't you here what I said? All for- follow me." I jumped up, and the tears are running down my cheek, and said, "I'm not a foreigner, I'm Irish." She said, "I know, my dear, but you must follow me." Oh, that broke my heart. Anybody to call me a foreigner. (she laughs) So we had to follow her, and where they lectured us, you know, about coming into the country and what we should expect and all from the country. And it was really, and then Aunt Bridget didn't come. And it came four o'clock. We had to stay. Do you know where we slept? In cages.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe that for me?

LAMBERTI:

Little wire cages. I see them yet. And you, everybody had a little cage. And they took our lovely skirts, our lovely plaids and fumigated them and ruined them. I'll never forget that. My mother said, "Oh, my God, what have we done. This is dreadful." We followed her like that man with the rats that followed him through England. (she laughs) Crying. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

What do you think your mother is thinking through all of this? She's gone to this place...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...she's just disgusted by what she sees.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What do you think she's thinking?

LAMBERTI:

She thinking have I done, have I gone mad, or, or is this going to be good. But she knew that we were behind her, and she could never go bad. Because my mother, when I hear these things on television and how they hate their mother, we adored our mother. If she told you to put your hand in the fire you'd do it because she was our mother. We, we really, I don't understand it, what hold Mother had on us all.

SIGRIST:

Well, I think children were raised differently...

LAMBERTI:

We're very different. Ver-, you were so subject to what you were taught as a child from the cradle up.

SIGRIST:

Did you have any medical exams at Ellis Island that you remember?

LAMBERTI:

The, you know, that was funny. My brother had, had, they, they took, they separated us, man and woman. And Teddy came out. And he, he had some card pinned on him, "leaking valve disease of the heart." So I said, "Oh," "to be returned on the ship you came." So I took it off and I put it in my pocket. There was never a word about that. Never another word about that. I said to my mother, "The child was scared stiff among all these," he was only fifteen, all these people, and I suppose his heart was up into here. (she gestures) Now he, he had gone into Sullivan and Cromwell's Law, Law Firm in New York. We had cousins who got him in there. And he got his working papers at fourteen. They weren't giving them out those days, but he was fifteen. And then he went into Columbia. Was six years in Columbia. First he had to get his high school diploma here. And he did that in three years. And then he, he, I'm very proud of him. There's his picture up there. (she gestures to a photograph) He's a navy captain. And he never had any heart trouble. That was such, now just supposing I hadn't put that in my pocket, what would have happened to him?

SIGRIST:

Well, you know what would have happened to him.

LAMBERTI:

He would have gone back. And my mother said, "Well, if he's goes, we're all going."

SIGRIST:

Do you know what happened to your luggage during this whole process?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, our luggage was fine. They, those days, it's not like mine that was lost the other month on, on that T.W.A. The luggage was fine. We had no complaints at all.

SIGRIST:

And then did Aunt Bridget come...

LAMBERTI:

Aunt Bridget finally came and took us to Carrol Street.

SIGRIST:

Why didn't she come?

LAMBERTI:

She said she didn't know it closed at four. I don't blame her in a way with all that crowd walking in on her. I said to my mother, "You know, we have an awful nerve, Mother." All that crowd. We five and my mother six walking in on, on a woman that never had any children. And everything just so in the house. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Right. She probably wasn't all that anxious...

LAMBERTI:

No! (Mr. Sigrist laughs) No. So we got an apartment right across the street from her, not very long after. And I got into the, there was a very wealthy club, the Pierpont and Clinton. I got in there as a waitress. It was a millionaire's club. There's no more like it. No more in Brooklyn like that. And it was just delightful. And Mona when into the Chase-Manhattan. And Angela went into Losier's [PH], you wouldn't know that...

SIGRIST:

So the intention was the kids had to get work fast.

LAMBERTI:

We had to get work. We had to get work.

SIGRIST:

You needed to...

LAMBERTI:

We had nobody, you couldn't, those days you didn't get that from anybody. You worked for it.

SIGRIST:

You had to have...

LAMBERTI:

And we were happy.

SIGRIST:

What about your mother?

LAMBERTI:

My mother, she played the piano and sang and waited for you to come home. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

And was happy to have the children out working.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. And I, and two years later she and Nola and Ita went home to Ireland, and we filled her trunk. I give them, I didn't keep a penny. Every, when you got your money you handed that to your mother. You didn't quibble about that. That was put down. And you never got anything back because she'd never give it to you. And we sent her back home like a lady. I'm sure the people think, oh, the money does grow on the streets in New York, because she had everything going home.

SIGRIST:

And is that what people in Ireland believed...

LAMBERTI:

They did then. They did. They did. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

That, that, that America was just this fountain of wealth.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, sure. And it was those days. I'm not saying that you picked it off the streets, but it was those days because, it's not like today.

SIGRIST:

Can you just tell me a little bit about the neighborhood where Aunt Bridget lived?

LAMBERTI:

Well, that, that was a very working neighborhood. I was, we were just, today that neighborhood is gone away down today. And we were very disappointed that Aunt Bridget would come home with such style, that that would be the neighborhood to live in. It was a working class. He worked at the...

SIGRIST:

Was it an immigrant neighborhood? A lot of Irish?

LAMBERTI:

A lot of Irish and Italian. Very Italian down around the waterfront there, away down Carrol and way down this, I don't know what you would call it there. But it was a very shopping neighborhood. Very old time neighborhood. Hard working, good people that kept their lovely little homes there. Not like today, of course. Nothing like that today.

SIGRIST:

And, and did she live in an apartment building?

LAMBERTI:

She did. 128 Carrol.

SIGRIST:

And what floor was she on?

LAMBERTI:

I think she was on the second. I think it was only two building. There steps up there. And ours was across the street which we didn't like. We didn't stay there too long after we got ourselves going.

SIGRIST:

And the first, the first night that you stayed with Aunt Bridget, (Mrs. Lamberti sighs) just how many rooms did she have?

LAMBERTI:

I think she only had, was it two bedrooms? Two bedrooms and a, and a small, little dining room. I don't know how in the name of God she did it.

SIGRIST:

Okay, we're going to pause for a second. Kevin's going to put another tape in, and then we're going to start with your first night in America at, at Aunt Bridget's.

LAMBERTI:

At Aunt Bridget's, I'll never forget that. END OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE, TAPE TWO

SIGRIST:

We're now beginning Tape Two with Kathleen Lamberti who came from the north of Ireland in 1921. Today is Friday, February 25th, 1994. Mrs. Lamberti, we were just talking about you and your mother...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah!

SIGRIST:

...and the brood of kids arriving at Aunt Bridget's. Tell me what that first night in America was like?

LAMBERTI:

I think she had steak.

SIGRIST:

So she fed you?

LAMBERTI:

She fed, oh, yes, she fed us. (she laughs) And my Uncle Joe brought in, (she clears her throat) he brought in a pizza pie. And I, we looked at that and they said, "Now, this is pizza pie." And Mother said, "Oh, what is that?" This dreadful looking stuff. It was awful. Mother said, "Mmm." Didn't eat that. Well, we were very disappointed. When we got his back turned we put it out. We threw it out. Today I, I often said to Nola, "Why did we do that?" But we didn't, we didn't know what it was. To eat tomatoes in a pie. That was dreadful. (she laughs) Then, but we did grow to love it. (she clears her throat)

SIGRIST:

Where did everybody sleep in this little apartment?

LAMBERTI:

Well, on the floor and every place. I don't know how, I don't know how she did it. (she clears her throat) When she put up with us for couple of weeks because we had no apartment. And then there was one across the street to, for, for rent. And we got that which was, I thought it was dreadful.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe that apartment for me?

LAMBERTI:

You had, you had to share a bath with the people down the hall, those days. And, and they had the, the little gas things on the, they didn't have gas like you have today that you put it on, and electric light...

SIGRIST:

They had gaslighting...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, they had gaslights and things. And, and she had a very lovely little, it was a nice apartment, but...

SIGRIST:

How many rooms?

LAMBERTI:

I think there were three. There were, well, I think we only had three or two there. But we didn't stay too long. Now, where did we go after that? We went to Flatbush, I think.

SIGRIST:

So this is still all within 1921...

LAMBERTI:

Yes. 19 and 21.

SIGRIST:

Yeah.

LAMBERTI:

And, no, yes, 19 and 21. My mother went back to Ireland in '23. No, I was married in '23. She went back in, she went back in '22.

SIGRIST:

'22.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

You mentioned a little earlier about the, this neighborhood where Aunt Bridget was...

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

...being Irish and Italian.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Now in New York history, of course, Irish and Italians have a long history of conflict.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

I'm just wondering how did everyone get along in this neighborhood?

LAMBERTI:

Well, I, I, guess the, everybody stayed together and mind their own business because Bridget, when Bridget had gone out there first she taught down in, in, oh, I forget the name of that church. And it was all Irish and mostly Italian. But it's, my Uncle Joe was, well, he was from Nuiri [PH] around Armagh. And he, he, worked in the, in the, way down in the waterfront there, way down in Carrol. Oh, gee whiz, what, I forget the name of the place that he worked in. But they were all great friends.

SIGRIST:

So, so it was a good community. Everyone got along?

LAMBERTI:

Everybody got along beautifully. And, but Aunt Bridget, of course, was very to herself. She was not a mixer.

SIGRIST:

Those, those couple of weeks that you stayed with, with Aunt Bridget, was this a very tense for your family, I mean...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it was very tense time. Especially my mother, because my mother, we were imposing terribly on her. But what were you going to do? This is, this is, I don't know how we, I don't know how we came through it. And we came through it very well.

SIGRIST:

What were some of the things that you saw in New York at that time that you had never seen before other than the pizza?

LAMBERTI:

Not too much to tell you the truth because we had it in Belfast, too.

SIGRIST:

That's right because Belfast is a big city.

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm. Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Was there something in New York that, that struck you as being either good or bad?

LAMBERTI:

No, not particularly. It was just bigger. But we had everything in Belfast that I can remember.

SIGRIST:

So moving to a city isn't, isn't that much of a shock to you.

LAMBERTI:

It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't a shock to us because we were coming from a city. And Belfast those days, those days was a very flourishing city.

SIGRIST:

Very sophisticated...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, it was a very flourishing city. It had everything. Everything they had there, which they don't have today.

SIGRIST:

What about the subway? Had you ever been on a subway before?

LAMBERTI:

No. No.

SIGRIST:

But that was of no...

LAMBERTI:

They had no subways there. You have no cause for a subway. There's not distances like here.

SIGRIST:

Was that an experience to...

LAMBERTI:

Yes it was. Those days it was lovely because there was a conductor on every train, on every part-, depart-, compartment there. There was, and it was only five cents. And you could, well, up until lately you could have been on that subway any time of the day or night and no one bothered you. I've seen me coming from Jackson Heights at two in the morning. Getting out and walking to 99th Street where we lived. Up at 95th Street and down to 99th Street and nobody bothered you. You're afraid now to go out the post office along the block there.

SIGRIST:

Tell me about the first job that you got in New York.

LAMBERTI:

That's the job I'm telling you..

SIGRIST:

That was at the restaurant.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

How did you get that job?

LAMBERTI:

Through the Knights of Columbus.

SIGRIST:

That's interesting. Tell me how that...

LAMBERTI:

(she clears her throat) Through my, excuse me, I've got a frog in my throat. Aunt Bridget, they knew, well, we didn't know the Knights of Columbus. But this, she got talking, I suppose my Uncle Joe called and said could we get something. In fact, I wanted to get into the telephone company but they wouldn't take me because of my Irish accent. Told me to come back, wanted me to come back when I spoke "New York." I said, "What is New York? New York is English like the rest of us." Uh-huh. Said, "When you, you're, can't take you with that Irish accent." And maybe it was more Irish those days, but it couldn't be anymore than today. But anyhow, I got into the Crescent Club through the Knights of Columbus. And that was a godsend. I stayed there then, I was married from the there.

SIGRIST:

The Crescent Club?

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, The Crescent...

SIGRIST:

Now was like this a, a, a...

LAMBERTI:

It was a million...

SIGRIST:

...organization for...

LAMBERTI:

(she clears her throat) Excuse me. It was a millionaire's club.

SIGRIST:

Oh. Oh, that's where you got...

LAMBERTI:

All millionaires. Very, very, very, I don't know where that went.

SIGRIST:

And that's, that's where you were working?

LAMBERTI:

Yes. Pierpont and Clinton.

SIGRIST:

So what were your, what were your, your duties there?

LAMBERTI:

Well, I was a waitress in the beginning...

SIGRIST:

You were a waitress.

LAMBERTI:

In the beginning. And then I got married. And I was expecting Vincent. And I got a job in the office. Stayed there till he was born. I, I should have gone back because it was just a beautiful place to work.

SIGRIST:

Would you say that the staff at the Crescent Club, the other waitresses and the kitchen help, were they all immigrants?

LAMBERTI:

No, they were not. I think I, there, there were two from the south of Ireland that I did not like. And they were, they were there. Two old, yeah, there were a couple of others there. They weren't immigrants I don't think. I think they had been in this country quite a while. I don't know how they got here. Maybe they were immigrants in their days, but I didn't mix with them.

SIGRIST:

Tell me how, how your mother fared in those two years that she was here...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, my...

SIGRIST:

...how she adjusted to...

LAMBERTI:

Oh, she adjusted beautifully because my mother, my mother saw that she was, we were handing her in the money and she was saving it all to get back here, filling up her trunk. And her clothes, getting, she went back like a lady, I tell you. Hmm.

SIGRIST:

Did she like New York?

LAMBERTI:

She loved, my, we used to laugh at her. She loved New York when she was in Ireland. And when she was in Ireland she hated Ireland, she wanted to go back to New York. I don't think my mother, I wonder if she's happy wherever she is, because she, she didn't seem to be happy anywhere. A wave of the bush. And she would say, "Well, I'm not going back again." And sure enough back she would go again. I wish we had some of the money that was spent travelling the ocean those days, because she did it. And, but she, she knew we were behind her. She was always very happy.

SIGRIST:

Was there something maybe that specifically didn't care for about, about her life here in New York?

LAMBERTI:

No, I don't think there was. I think, I don't, I don't know. She made friends very easily with everybody. She could make friends quicker than you'd turn round. And she did the same in Ireland. She didn't have the same surroundings when she went back to Ireland each time because my father was still in Mourne. And she went back to Mourne. Got herself a lovely little house. And Nola said, "I don't know why my mother did all this travelling because they were so happy." But she did it again and again and again.

SIGRIST:

Were you writing to your father?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. I've some lovely letters there from my father.

SIGRIST:

What, what, what do you remember telling him about America? How did you want to present your life here?

LAMBERTI:

Well, in the beginning it was a little sad, because, you know, you left him. And it was kind of sad. And he was a little sad. But he wished us all the best of luck, and when the children were born he was very, my father was just, just an extraordinary person.

SIGRIST:

He sort of lost his whole family.

LAMBERTI:

He lost us all. And we said, how could, I'd like to see me do that to my husband. He would say, "Keep on going." Because it, we weren't like that.

SIGRIST:

Speaking of your husband...

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

...since you met him fairly soon after you got here, tell me how you met him?

LAMBERTI:

I met him in the Crescent Club. He was the head waiter. (she clears her throat) And I met him there. And do you know when I got married none of the Irish would come to see me at the church because I was marrying at Italian.

SIGRIST:

What was his name?

LAMBERTI:

Gerardo.

SIGRIST:

And Lamberti would be his last name.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And tell me a little bit about his background.

LAMBERTI:

Well, he, he, his father and mother had eloped to London.

SIGRIST:

Where did they come from?

LAMBERTI:

They came from Amalfi and Minori. Beautiful. I was there.

SIGRIST:

In Italy?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, lovely. Lovely, lovely, lovely people. And, and they had eloped and married in London and had their children all born there. Very British but still Italian. And he spoke Italian. And he spoke French more, more fluently than Italian. And he was just a grand, good husband.

SIGRIST:

You were married in '23?

LAMBERTI:

'23.

SIGRIST:

And you met him in twenty...

LAMBERTI:

Met him in '22.

SIGRIST:

In '22.

LAMBERTI:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What, what attracted you to him?

LAMBERTI:

I don't know. What does attract one? I swore I was going back to marry an Irishman that (she laughs) I thought I was going to marry this fellow McGowen [PH]. When I met my husband that was the end of that. What is it? It's mental, it's some telepathy that, hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about the actual wedding ceremony.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, we had a lovely ceremony. Mona and I had that double wedding together. And, and it was over in St. Augustine's, Sixth Avenue and Sterling Place. It was a beautiful old church. And they had a, they had a beautiful cross that lighted up, you know, as they played. They played "Believe me, if all those endearing young charms which," maybe you don't know, it's one of Thomas Moore's melodies. And Mona was married first because she was the older. It's a lovely song. (she sings the tune) And it's, as, as he was telling the priest each light would light up. (she sings again) And the tears are blinding because I'm next, and Angela's my maid of honor. So was Teddy. And I'm, I'm standing at the side of the altar waiting for Mona, and Angela says, "Stop." Said, "Oh, wish I was in Ireland. I shouldn't be doing this." And I'm going to be married next. Well, finally we were married, and we came down the aisle. And we were, we had a, you don't know Brooklyn, Gage and Tollner in Fulton Street. We had a reception upstairs there in our, I don't, I think we might have had about twenty-five. We didn't know many people. We were that, not that long in the country. We go to, we took Angela with us on our honeymoon because she was young and she had nobody here. Teddy we put in camp because he was young, too. And we took Angela with us to Ashbury Park. It was beautiful those days. 19 and 23.

SIGRIST:

Now you said that other Irish wouldn't come to the wedding.

LAMBERTI:

No. Prejudiced against the Italian. No, they wouldn't come to look at me.

SIGRIST:

Did you ever experience any kind of prejudice because you were Irish? Now you did tell the story about trying to get the job at the phone company.

LAMBERTI:

Uh-huh.

SIGRIST:

That's certainly a example of this.

LAMBERTI:

Yes. (she clears her throat)

SIGRIST:

Were there any other instances in your early years here?

LAMBERTI:

No. No. No. No. I never looked for any other. Because I went into the Crescent Club and stayed there, and never went back to work again after they were born.

SIGRIST:

Was your mother at the wedding ceremony?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, no she was in Ireland. (she clears her throat)

SIGRIST:

She was already back in Ireland. Was that difficult for you with...

LAMBERTI:

No, she...

SIGRIST:

...being married with your parents...

LAMBERTI:

...she was a wee bit disappointed that we were getting married so quickly. (she laughs) That we didn't support her a little more. (she laughs) No. No.

SIGRIST:

When was, when was your first child born?

LAMBERTI:

Vinny was born, excuse me. (she clears her throat) On Candlemas Day, which is February the 2nd, 1925.

SIGRIST:

And other children?

LAMBERTI:

And just Gerry, my, the lawyer. He was born on, I forgetting, either the 23rd of December or 28. So I never had any other.

SIGRIST:

And when was the first time you went back to Ireland to visit?

LAMBERTI:

I took the two of them back with me in twenty, I was in London when the crash came, '29.

SIGRIST:

'29. And that was the first time that you had gone back?

LAMBERTI:

I had gone back.

SIGRIST:

I want you to tell me a little bit about how, when you went back that first time, how you perceived it all, and how you felt emotionally?

LAMBERTI:

I, I did, I felt I, I would go along the road with the, I took my carriage with me, and I took their cribs with me.

SIGRIST:

So the kids are little?

LAMBERTI:

Yeah, Gerry's a baby in arms, and Vinny was about three, three and a half. And, and I just thought it was lovely to meet all your old friends, you know, and I, I went outside of church, and I stood outside of church and I said, I'm going over to talk to someone, I said, "Hello. Don't you remember me?" They looked at me, said, "No." I said, "You don't remember me?" "No. Do you know her, Hughie?" "No, I don't know." "Do you know her, Tommy?" "No, I don't her." I said, "Well, I lived here." And I said, "I'm going to mention one name, and I'm sure you're going to know it the minute I tell you. My father taught-" "Oh, my God, are you one of the Magennis girls? Which of them are ye?" I said, "Well, I'm Kathleen." Oh, I had a crowd round me. "My God, look who's here. Kathleen Magennis." And, you know, it was just fascinating. I said, "This is my husband over there." And he stood back, and my husband's not as talkative as I am. And I brought him over, and, "Oh, nice to meet you, sir." And oh, you know, it was so friendly. "You come to my house for dinner." "No, she's coming to my house tonight." "No, she promised me." And it was just fascinating. Friendly, friendly, friendly, friendly.

SIGRIST:

When you were actually on Irish soil during that visit...

LAMBERTI:

Hmm-hmm.

SIGRIST:

...did you feel like you were a visitor or did you feel like you had an emotional connection to where you...

LAMBERTI:

No, I felt that I was just home. And how, why is it we always say "back home?" It's not my home anymore. This is my home. As, as, when I was becoming a citizen, when the judge come in to us that day, and he said to us, he said, "I know you're becoming a citizen today." But he said, "There's one thing I can't take away from you and that's your heart. That's where you were born." He said, "That's one thing," and everybody started to clap and cry and shout, you know. Very, very wonderful thing.

SIGRIST:

What year did you become a citizen?

LAMBERTI:

I became a citizen, was it, we came in '21. I didn't become a citizen until, because Pa, now, I call him Pa, my husband. He wanted to go back to England. And he kept putting it off. And I said, "No, we're going to become a citizen, and we're going to stay here." I became a citizen I think in 19 and 30.

SIGRIST:

Well, so you, you were here a little bit of time.

LAMBERTI:

I was here.

SIGRIST:

Yeah.

LAMBERTI:

And it was harder those days than it is today. They didn't take you in and just run you through it like they're doing today. No, sir. You had to study a little bit.

SIGRIST:

Was your husband a citizen?

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

You said he had been here before you.

LAMBERTI:

Oh, yes. Oh, Pa was, my, my papers are up in the vault. I must get those papers down.

SIGRIST:

Was he older than you?

LAMBERTI:

No, I was older than he two years. (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

I see. When you first got here, did you ever want to go back to Ireland seriously?

LAMBERTI:

I, oh, in the beginning, of course you wanted to go back to Ireland in the worst way. "Why did we leave Ireland? Why did we leave Ireland? Why did we come here? This is dreadful." Oh, in the beginning it was very bad. Many a tear you cried. "The savage loves his native joy," you know. Hmm-hmm. Oh, yes. But wouldn't, even when Vinny, when Vinny was flying and when they were over the Azores, and they, they were, couldn't come in, couldn't come in here. And I got phone, I got a phone call from the Red Cross to say that their ships, one ship had gone down. The B-29 coming back from England. And he was the squadron leader. And they said, "Well, keep your line open all night." And I'm praying, oh, my God, I, I think I see those planes yet. And the phone rang at four in the morning and it's Vinny's voice. I said, "Where are you?" He said, "I'm in Tampa. I've kissed the ground, Mum. I've kissed the ground from the plane until I'm here." He said, "I never was so happy in all my life to be back in the United States." And here I'm bawling on the phone and he's bawling on the other side. But there's no place like America.

SIGRIST:

Well, I think that's a good place for us to...

LAMBERTI:

Ach, there's no place like America. God love America and everybody in it. (she laughs) When I, when, back 19 and 29 in England I see that Union Jack, I say, "Oh, let me, don't let me look at that. Where's our American flag." My father flew an American flag over his school every Fourth of July. In Brackney National School!

SIGRIST:

Well, that's interesting.

LAMBERTI:

He did indeed. And we could, I could "God Bless America," and I could sing "Dixie," and I could sing every verse. In fact, here at out singing class I said, "Don't you know the other verses of "The Star Spangled Banner?" "No." I said, "Well, I'll write them out for you." Because we learned them when we were this height in Ireland. (she indicates) We were all America.

SIGRIST:

That's right. You said you learned all the American songs.

LAMBERTI:

Yes, but this is the land, this was the land that give us everything here. This is the land we love.

SIGRIST:

Mrs. Lamberti, I want to thank you very much for letting us come here, and have this...

LAMBERTI:

It's very nice to meet you, and to meet...

SIGRIST:

Yes, and we've been...

LAMBERTI:

...to meet you, too, Kevin.

SIGRIST:

...we've been talking for a long time. Let me just sign off here. This is Paul Sigrist signing off with Kathleen Lamberti...

LAMBERTI:

What is that, a German name?

SIGRIST:

We'll, we'll talk about it in a moment.

LAMBERTI:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

And today is Friday, February 25th, 1994. Thank you very much.

LAMBERTI:

And now you have to go downstairs and talk again. You'll be sick by the time...

SIGRIST:

I have two more to do today...(tape ends)