LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. I'm here with Diana Goldman, who came from Russia, or the Ukraine...

GOLDMAN:

In 1923.

LEVINE:

in 1923 when she was eighteen year old. Mrs. Goldman will be eighty-nine in December of this year, so that makes you eighty- eight right today. And we're here in Brooklyn. I've just talked with Mr. Goldman about his coming to the United States from Russia, and I'm looking forward now to hearing your story.

GOLDMAN:

I'll tell you a long story. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Okay. Okay, let's start at the beginning by giving your birth date and the town you were born in.

GOLDMAN:

I was born, I don't that, in a very small town. It was like a hamlet, I don't know. And then we moved, I was very little when we moved to this town. It's a name, Kulykiuka.

LEVINE:

Could you spell it? Or try it?

GOLDMAN:

Just, write the way you hear it. Ko—how you write -- in Russian I couldn't write it, and now I can...

ISRAEL:

Let's see if we can find it in the map.

GOLDMAN:

No, you have, we looked at, not there.

ISRAEL:

Yes and no.

GOLDMAN:

No. Not Kulykiuka. Cernigov gebirnya you'll find. Cernigov Gebirnya that, is state. And this was a small - that's even - originally --

LEVINE:

Can you say where it was in the, in the Ukraine?

GOLDMAN:

Ukraine?

LEVINE:

Yeah. Where the little town was?

GOLDMAN:

It's the, that's the little town. It was a, not a little town, because we had two sugar factories there. It was an industrial town. And we had some - always something doing there. (But, it's, you're not going to find it there. You'll find there's Cernigov, but you're not going to find the govm-- but you're not going to find...

ISRAEL:

[not understood] .

LEVINE:

Okay. Let's, let's just us talk so we, because that will...

GOLDMAN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

...not become on tape. Okay. So, you, so the little town, well, it was an industrial town that you moved to?

GOLDMAN:

Yes. There was a fact-- a sugar factory. See, the reason there was su-- and the sugar factories. We used to make them from long, from white, sweet beets. So they used to take, they used to bring those beets, and they used to cut them up like you make borscht, you know. And they used squeeze it out, with all the - the sweetness out. And, and they used to put, put this outside, outside the --. So they had a lot of cattle business there because the cattle thrived on that, the squeezed, the squeezed borscht over there. And from the s- the syrup that they take it out, they used to make sugar.

LEVINE:

Oh.

GOLDMAN:

So...

LEVINE:

So did you go to school there?

GOLDMAN:

I went to school. Anything was for nothing, I was there. Because my father went to America, he came, we lived, I don't remember that time, because we, my mother, you know, you sit and the house and listen. We lived in a very small town. I don't know, my father used to, to deal in tobacco, they use, you know. Years back. I didn't know that. And then the time was bad that there was pogroms, I think, I don't know. And they were friendly, all the friends, and then the czar wanted, he need money, he increase the taxes on the peasants. So they said the Jews have it all. So they were taking pogrom. You know what pogrom is? You heard of it? They were, so they made pogroms, and neighbors, so I don't remember. Very vaguely, because I was just a kid -- born at the time. You know, you remember things because they you used to sit by the table and my mother used to sit and talk and I used to remember it from, through her, you know. (she laughs) But, and we had to move, and I had another brother. I was, he was two years younger than I. He was a baby. And they moved to another town, because they couldn't stay in that town anymore. And finally my father couldn't get a job, so he went to the [not understood] . It was, they had the sugar factories there. And he got a job there in the factory, but my father couldn't work in a factory. My mother had two brothers here in America. That, they ran away from the army in Russia. They, they stole the, the border, you know. And they ran, they came to America, so my mother used to write to them. She used to write that it's hard to make a living, my father couldn't take in the factory there, because he was a very quiet man, and there was a lot of peasants. And the factory was busy only wintertime. Summertime was very slow because the peasants used to go to work, so that it was slow. They used to work in the fields. So my mother wrote to her brother that they're struggling, so they, they said, "We'll send, let him come to America." So they sent my father to America. And when my father went to America, and my father, he was, he was there about a year -- in 1912. And he sent a letter, he, he wanted to know the names of the chi-- the correct names and ages of the children. My kid brother was in the cradle when my father left. And so my mother just about to answer him, the war broke out, and the revolution broke out, and we're stuck for ten more years. For ten years we didn't even hear from my father. They didn't let him, then finally we got a first letter (unintelligible) like today. I went to the library, because I was, I used to like to read a lot. So I went to, to the library to get a book, and I --some, they got a letter, and I, the women -- left it by my friend in the candy store there. So I took, and my, my, my, my brother, whether that, I don't know. My mother got a letter from my, yeah, that's what, my, my fa-- my brother was in the army when I got it. He, my, my mother's brothers stopped writing letters to my mother. And they said they'll send my father to America we didn't hear from him. And finally I got a letter with two dollars in it . The first letter that my father sent for a long, because they couldn't send, because closed --the closing the border. And finally then we worked, we came here in 1920, '23.

LEVINE:

What did you father say in the letter?

GOLDMAN:

He couldn't, he couldn't, he said he's glad that he was able to send a two dollar, send us some money, to hear from us. It was six children he left. My father was a very honest man.

LEVINE:

So what was your father's name?

GOLDMAN:

William.

LEVINE:

And your mother?

GOLDMAN:

Ida.

LEVINE:

Ida. And what was your mother's maiden name?

GOLDMAN:

Chaye.

LEVINE:

H-...

GOLDMAN:

It's, I don't know how you say, but that's what the...

ISRAEL:

Hmm?

GOLDMAN:

Chaye. How you spell in Yi-- in the maiden name?

ISRAEL:

No. Yid-- the maiden name is, what's the second name?

GOLDMAN:

The second, the first name she wanted. The first name you wanted or the second?

LEVINE:

The, your mother's maiden name. Second.

GOLDMAN:

Maiden, maiden, second is Jurov [PH]. Jur, Jurov. Jurov. Jurov. They lived by my, my young cousins, the cousins, you know, my mother had two brothers. They called them Jurov, with a J. So that was her name, and, and in, real name, we had a Siskin.

LEVINE:

Her real name?

GOLDMAN:

My, my, in Russian my father's name was Giskin [PH]. But here they changed to Siskin. I don't know why it came to Siskin. Giskin was just as good.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

Because in Russian the, the "guh" is, it could be Yiskin and Giskin, you know, it's a "guh." But I don't know. He changed it to Siskin, so it stuck at Siskin. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Ah. Uh-huh. Okay, now, did you say your, your actual birth date? Why don't you say that.

GOLDMAN:

My, my birth date? Yeah, somebody finding that December 8th, 1905.

LEVINE:

And so were you a religious family?

GOLDMAN:

We were all in a way religious. You know, you weren't allowed this, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't have so much temptation to go any, we would just follow the, I used to enjoy the holidays. Was different. We had the...

LEVINE:

What were the holidays like? How were celebrated there?

GOLDMAN:

The holidays? We were, it was like Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur, you know. I fasted when I was thirteen years old, then I stopped fasting. And it was, we really followed it, you know. And, and, and then we were, enjoyed it. And it came like Sukos. You know Sukos? So we, we used to take the chickens and [not understood] over the head with a, with a, with a rooster for the boys and with a, with a chicken for the girls. My mother has four sons and two daughters. I had four, four brothers and I got one left. And I had one sister, and there only two of us left now. See, we came here in 1923. We was twelve years without my father. And for ten years we didn't hear from him because they didn't, they had the quota, they wouldn't let, let it through. Finally we had a first letter, and we got. we got here eventually. It wasn't easy. But, you know, my mother, we were, my mother worked very hard. And I, we helped, you know. But when you're young everything goes, you know, in a hurry.

LEVINE:

Well, what was your mother doing for work?

GOLDMAN:

We used to, my mother started to bake cookies. We had the, the factories. So she started to bake cookies because we had to make a living somehow. So she used to visit, we used to get about forty, forty pounds a day of flour she used to use up. In a big, big basin, I don't know what it was. And I used to get up six o'clock in the morning and help my mo-- and make it, like liver rolls, you know, and pile them up high. My mother made sure that the dough was ready. And I stood on to school. So I wanted, it was, whatever was for nothing I was there. We had to want, you know, I had a sister, she never wanted, she didn't want me to go. She used to throw the cookie, the rolling pin after me. But I have to come home three o'clock. And I used to, kitchen was messy, you know, when you bake. I had to work by the sink, chickens, kitchen sink, and wash the dishes and there's the pans and everything. And I used to help in the morning, get up in the morning. And I used to make a hundred little rolls like. And my, then the, we put in, dip in the sugar and roll it out and my mother used to put it in the stove to bake. And then I came home, then I finished it. The kitchen where I used to prop up the book on my, on the shelf, washing the sink and study the... (she laughs) Yeah, there's a will there's a way. Whatever's for nothing I was there because I wanted to know. And here, I was able to go. I went to, to Borough Park when I went to learn English.

LEVINE:

Well, first let's talk...

GOLDMAN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

...all about the Ukraine before you left.

GOLDMAN:

Yeah. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Is there anything that you have fond memories of, of...

GOLDMAN:

Oh, yes. I, I had a lot of memories there because we were young. I was young. I used to like to dance, to sing. I used to go to school. We used to, we come to, to school in the morning. And before the school opened up, so we, with the, we used to, dances, lady's dances. So I used to dance with another girl. So my, the teacher think that, the geometry teacher used to pass us and, "Gee, if you'd only know geometry the way you know dancing you okay" (she laughs) I'll never forget that. And then I started to - the later I started to, to learn in French. Can you, the Bolsheviks got into town, they opened up a t?????????? [technical] school. They, so algebra, geometry and physics. All that they took. But I only took one term because I went to America. I went to America for ten years. I was going every day to America. But finally I had to go leave all that and I left it. But I learned little thing. I learned that experiment, like if you fill up a glass of water and you if ever try, you ever try experiments in physics. Cover, take a full glass of water, cover it very tight with a piece of paper and then turn it up slow, and the paper will hold.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

GOLDMAN:

I remember these because we could (unintelligible)

LEVINE:

And so how did you feel about coming to America?

GOLDMAN:

I was going to America for ten years. Every day. You need a pair of shoes? In America. You want a dress? In America. (she laughs) (unintelligible) couldn't afford it.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

And finally we got, I went to work. And one, we came, my father was with, took an apartment, he came here, had, he didn't, he wasn't, he didn't have a trade. So what are you going to teach him? So my father got a job as a painter. That's easy. So he became a painter. And he made a little money for it -- he saved money. He, as a matter of fact he wanted to, the, just a year here, he wanted the ages and the names of the children, and then the war broke out. So we're stuck for ten years. But we were the first, they were, open the quota, for it was, we were allowed the parents to children, the children to parents.

LEVINE:

Oh.

GOLDMAN:

And that's how come we were the first ones, you see.

LEVINE:

Do you...

GOLDMAN:

Anybody else couldn't.

LEVINE:

Do you remember when you were getting ready to go. Do you remember anything you brought with you or your mother brought to America?

GOLDMAN:

We didn't take, we didn't take much with, because I don't know. Even that didn't, there was not much to take because we, we were poor, because my father was here. He couldn't help us. Then finally we got, little by little, they opened up the quota we were able to come. I don't...

LEVINE:

Do you remember leaving?

GOLDMAN:

Yeah, sure. It's a small town. And whatever they gave, we gave it away. As matter of fact there was, we, see, we had, when the revolution broke out there was a lot of people that ran away from, from big cities that they dispossessed them. Or they ran away from the Cossacks and all that. And we lived a very quiet town, and all, and very, sort of, it was in the Ukraine, but Cernigov gebirnya, you know, gebirnya the state. And it was a -- an industrial town, but it got so crowded with everybody came to the town, you couldn't get an apartment no how. And we had a, a three room apartment. Brother was in the army, came back with a, with a, with a bullet in it, in the his, I know he got it, wounded. And when, about a week la, two weeks later the bullet came out over here. (she indicates) He went to the hospital, they took it out. They brought it to America and it got black. And so we start baking cookies. My mother used to bake the cookies. There was a peasant that used to wait, pick it up and sell it, and, and we made a living out of it until we are able to, to get something. And I really don't know how we managed. And then the, I remember the first time my father sent a, a big box of clothing, because I had cousins here and everything, there was nothing new. All the, the used clothes, with the, the coats. And I had a coat that fitted me. You know, you couldn't even buy it if you had it. And there was no place to buy. I had an older sister, she used to go to a different town, and my, my uncle, my mother's brother, the younger brother, lived in my mother's. So he used to, she used to come back with the, the cut goods, you know, cotton goods. My father, he, they were in business with that. So she used to wrap it around herself otherwise you couldn't, she used to go without money in the, in the, in the, in the train, in the trains, you know. So she used to bring it like this, wrapped around herself. (she indicates) It's a whole story. I don't know how we made, you know, now I wonder how we made, but I was a happy go lucky one, you know, it didn't. So we ate something else, so we didn't have bread so we had --. I don't know what we ate. My mother made potatoes. Used to pile up a whole bunch of potatoes for the winter. And came back the spring, the, the summer, in the end they used to chop the sauerkraut, and the cuc-- pickles. That we had. But it was not easy, you know.

LEVINE:

What was your favorite dish, do you remember?

GOLDMAN:

My favorite dish? Anything that's edible. (she laughs) That was my favorite dish at this time, but the only favorite dish we had was potatoes mostly.

LEVINE:

Okay.

GOLDMAN:

Not that I loved it, but, and there, I remember I was a, I used to love to go dancing on Saturday night. We had dances. I must have been about fourteen, fourteen years old already. So I used to, had to peel the big -- new potatoes. And did you ever try to peel new potatoes to clean them? I used to get black on my finger here. I had to, Saturday night before I went to the dance I had to peel the potatoes, because my mother cooked it already. Had to wait till the stars, the stars had to come out first, because after which -- we were very religious. I am not. My mother didn't know half of it, how religious I was. But it was, my mother was religious, you had to follow, you know, we've got to follow in that. So I used to put on a piece, be able to cut -- a piece of rag over here on my finger and scrape the potatoes, and go to dance after that, so I didn't have any mark. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

And what were the dances like that you went to?

GOLDMAN:

They had, they had the, somebody play music, and we danced. Love to dance. Used to every dance, this, Russia, see, here, when I came here they said the fox trots and the waltz. In Russia every, they had, every dance had different steps, I knew everything.

LEVINE:

Oh.

GOLDMAN:

You see, they had the waltz and the fox trot and karapet [PH], all different names, you know. And we used to dance kake--the, the, the polka kaket [PH], you know, it used to, when two people dance together. I used to dance a lot. Now I, he never danced, that's why I like it, can't do that. And that's what we did. But we, it wasn't easy, you know. We had to come to the, bring water from the well for using, for cook, for cooking or, or cleaning. And for drinking there was another somewheres a further a well we had to get because for different water. And I used to, winter I used to schlep the water on my shoulders with the pail, you know. And we used to chop our own wood. We had a, a three room apartment, and we had the oven in the kitchen, and the, the bricks fell in. And we didn't, had just a little, a little stove that used to put on to make a little bit warm, but there was no place to cook. So the landlord had the, landlady actually, had a, a son-in-law that, they built him a special one, big one room apartment with a, a foyer like to come in on the outside to. So another foyer (unintelligible) I don't know how you call it when you walk into somebody's house and you open up the first steps. It's a...

LEVINE:

Like a vestibule?

GOLDMAN:

No, not the vestibule. It's outside, before you come in the house. Like a, like a...

LEVINE:

Oh, like a porch, or a, a...

GOLDMAN:

It's like a, can't think of it. That's anyway what it was. So they build a special big room for, for his grand-- for the granddaughter when she got married, and they lived in that next to us. But then when the stove, the stove fell in by us, and we had a lot of people came in from all over. See the winter is a kind of [not understood] town. And they used to, and they, we had no fighting there. But anybody that had to run away from the fighting came to us. And it was impossible to get an apartment. So, so the land, so when the stove fell in and my brother was in the army, when he was sixteen year enlisted, so my mother came and tell them to let him off. Then they would, he was drafted. He wrote that he's, he's very sorry. He says he's sorry that he, he was miserable in the army. He was wounded, too. Anyway, so he, so we got this apart-- this, so they built this little house, like a small, big room. Maybe the room was about like from here to there.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

Like this, the length over here, but that this here. And his, his, the granddaughter over there, the grandmother owned that house that we lived in. So she was in the Crimea for the, for the winter. But you were left with a broken, no, no, no stove. So there was, the, the apartment that the granddaughter lived in, so there, the husband of that granddaughter came to my mother, said, look, I'm willing to move in with my grand-- with my In-laws And they have one daughter. They got a bigger house, big house, they got a five room apartment, and there only two people and there was one daughter. He says, go to the store, to the, the house committee, and tell them that your son is in the army, and that you have no place to go, you have no income and you got to have an apartment to live. And let them, let them take him into my, to my mother-in-law's house. I'm willing to move in. And he did. So he - they went, my mother went there, to the house committee. And they said, they said they're going to take a look. They came there. So they, so they, their -- their house, that the one that want to live, not the daughter-in-law, but live there. "Oh, no." She, so he says, "All right, if you don't want to let them in, he says, you, whether you don't want to take your, your, your daughter-in-law, your daughter in," he says, "I will send in a Muzhik." You know what a Muzhik is? Peasant. With the pigs. "Would you like that better?" So they got the, so we got a apart, so they moved out, and we got, we lived there for three years. And I always sit like this, and look. We all slept separate. First my, my brother was in the army, but then he came back wounded, so he was with us. And everybody slept separate. My mother's bed was on a side. And I don't know how we managed. (she laughs) I, here I was sitting yesterday and I'm trying to put everybody to sleep over here, and I could hardly do it. And I used to have people coming, friends come in, like Rosh Hashanah, Sukos, you know, that. And the, the last two days, Simkhas Tora, we used to come from the, from the shul, they used to come to us. We're sitting table, we used to, and we used to eat a lot of polly, poppy seeds. No, no. Sunset, you know, the sun, sun, you know. How do you call them?

ISRAEL:

Sunflower seeds.

LEVINE:

Sunflower seeds.

GOLDMAN:

Sunflower seeds. I know it's something with the sun. And we used to talk, and we used to have such a good time, and didn't mind because we, and dance. In a little circle we used to dance. But, and, and we managed. And I'm sitting, I'm sitting, yesterday I'm sitting here and looking around, and I said, "That wasn't bigger than this apartment, than this room." How did we manage if we were, my brother was in the army, then he came back. We were six, seven people. No slept, my mother's bed was a separate. And there was folding beds and a cot was there, and we all slept separate.

LEVINE:

Did you have grandparents who were alive?

GOLDMAN:

I had grandparent, but it died, I had a grandmother, my mother's mother. And she was very clean and very tempered [sic]. And I'm, the only that could get along with her is me.

LEVINE:

How did you get along with her.

GOLDMAN:

And I was just old enough to get into school. By us, you know, the school end before the revolution it was yet. I got, I was devel-- to first grade, and I was just, that was almost June. In June there were the end - the end of the term. And that was in May. She got a, she got an apartment, and she always [not understood] on my grandmother. She was clean, she ever had to be cleaned, and they didn't have the tissues, and I had to wash the hanky because it was, I had no picnic. So my, my mother had a brother living in Konotop. It's on the, on the, where do you call it. Where, you know, the, the, I forgot to say it. You were looking some, what do you call that on the, on the, where you look for the , for the...

ISRAEL:

On the map.

GOLDMAN:

On the map, yeah. Couldn't think of it.

ISRAEL:

I-- I found Konotop there.

GOLDMAN:

I'm telling you it's on the other map. So, so my, my grandmother, my grandmother's, my mother's brother -- brother, that's right. Yeah, my mother's, it must have been a brother there. He took, he took on, a roof for her - we had a, a town about seven miles from the building. But it was, they, they had the, the forest there, and was a very a healthy climate. And she used to cough a lot. And that used to save her. So they got a place for her there, and she only wanted me. So I had just the last, the last, that was the first grade. The last month before, before promotion I had to go away. And I came back after the summer, and I said I bet the -- from what, from what--. So I was go to - whenever -- every time that school opened up for nothing, I was there, you know. Why, why not? And then, then during, then the Bolsheviks came into town. That was before the Bolsheviks yet, the revolution. But then we, they came into town, and they opened up, they put a sign that they opened up a school, techno-- techno chemical, something like that. They had to know all the chemistry and algebra and geometry and everything that. And they opened up, they put a sign, they put a sign, they have to have two years of gymnasium . It's like here two years of high school. Gymnasium they called in Europe. So how do I get the two years of gymnasium, I only had the four grades. So my mother had a cousin, she used to give lessons. I come to her. I said, "Look." Hanna was her name. "Do me a favor. Give me lessons." But I could not afford to pay. She made a list. She said, "Look." "You know," she says, "get another one that can afford to pay and I'll teach you." I got one. She had, her mother had like a, a little, a little hotel. They used to sleep over, because the (unintelligible) made a living, she was a widow. And she had two, two girls. The other one's a, no, she was sixteen years old at the time. Her name was Nekhama. We used to call her "Nama." So, so I said, "Okay, I'll to get," and I got her. She was going to school to, we were going together. And she didn't pass. I, I got into the school and she never made it. But she got married young. So I went to that, and I took all the, all the things. I think -- Algebra, geometry. You could, I was going there quite a while, but I didn't have enough, didn't (unintelligible) because I had to go to America. When I came here I registered in Borough Park. My father had an apartment for us in Borough Park. And he, he was a painter. I tried to tell you once that he be, he became a painter here. But then we came, we were coming here, so my uncle didn't want to tell my mother that my father is a painter. Paints house, paints houses. So they - he talked him into the -- they opened up, got together, they opened up an appetizing store on 13th Avenue in Borough Park.

LEVINE:

Well, before we talk about Borough Park, tell me about leaving. Do you remember actually leaving your house to come to America?

GOLDMAN:

In, in, sure. I was eighteen years old. I should remember.

LEVINE:

What, what was it like when you left?

GOLDMAN:

As I said we lived in one room, because the others for the, the third room that we had, there was the stove fell down, so that they rented it out, but we were going to America, so we're going. So we, we stayed, we, it was, it wasn't easy, but somehow - but, plain. It was hard, but my mother used to get up. We had the - the factory there, some there, they had a lot of cattle business there, so they used to kill the cattle and they used to send to the front, because they were fighting up front. But the only thing they used to give away for nothing was the, the head, and the liv-- and the, and the lung or something. And my mother used to get up three o'clock in the morning. And the win, the winter was not like here. It was cracking from the ice. She used to get up three o'clock in the morning and stand in line and bring a whole head. Then she put it in the, we had a little piece of wood that used to chop on it outside. She used to chop it outside and bring into (unintelligible). Used to have the tongue in there, everything. We had enough to eat. Used to, because they gave that away. The rest went to the front. You see it was my mother had it very hard, you know. Now that I'm already here, and I think of it, you know, she really was something. Then when I remember she got, my sister went, she was riding, travelling with the -the -- selling the material she used to bring, she brought, brought with her the typhus fever [sic]. Typhus. You heard of it?

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

And when she came home she got sick. So we called the, the doctor. We had a, he was an intern, I don't what they call it...

ISRAEL:

A paramedic.

GOLDMAN:

A paramedic, but he was better than the doctor. He was very good. And they tried, the, the, the doctor was riding around in a droshke. You know what a droshke, with a, a beautiful carriage, with, with, with two, with a horse. He used to ride around, the doctor. The Jewish man, but he never even looked at you, because we were poor. So he, so when my mother call him, and he came, and when my mother, I, she got sick, and the baby -- we called the, we called the man in, he says, "Oh, he's -- this guy, the, the doctor stopped." She said, "God forbid. Put her in, put her in - in a clinic, the way they had (unintelligible) part of the, from the factory they took off a big-- .I can't think no more. Where they opened up, like, like where they put the sick people there. So they put her there. And, and, and then I had to, and then the doc, and I couldn't get, get any books to read. Finally when, when they took, when she was, she was in, she was in the hospital there, then she was every, then my mother got sick, and my brothers got sick, and I got sick the last one. (she laughs) So anyway my mother got better from the typhus. We had to chop our own wood. So neighbors used to come and chop the wood for my mother, put it on the, on the step, my mother, she would be able to light the stove.

LEVINE:

Do you know what it was that cured her?

GOLDMAN:

Who?

LEVINE:

From the typhus? Do you know what, what kind of medical treatment she got?

GOLDMAN:

I got it. I was sick, too. Everybody was sick. She got, she got sick, and she got over very fast, and my kid brother, too. But I got sick and I lay for three weeks. And, and then after that, and I had temperature. And so from the, the, had an intern from the hospital, a young woman. She used to come, and she used to steal hamburger. I couldn't eat it anyway, she used to bring it, so they all ate, ate it, because you couldn't get anything if you had the money. You know, I think how we, how we even managed. Unbelievable, but we did.

LEVINE:

Was, was there a big epidemic at that time of typhus?

GOLDMAN:

That's where the short hair came out. I took a half a pound of hair off. And then after here, and, and my mother once told me when she was a young girl she had chick, pock...

ISRAEL:

Pox.

GOLDMAN:

...pock mark. How you...

LEVINE:

Small pox?

GOLDMAN:

Small pox. And when she got up from the, got better, so they, they gave her some medication, so she put it all over her body, so her body was very clean. But she had little pock, pock marks. And she said when she got up, she start combing her hair, half of it came out. So when I had typhoid fever, you know what I did? As soon I was able to walk, I walk to the barber shop, I said shave my hair. I was afraid my hair should come out. Three times I shaved my hair and I had a little cap I made myself. It, lace. So many walked around like that because it was, the hair was coming off because everybody was sick. So, and then my hair, when I come to America it was three years later. I had hair up to here. (she indicates) And it was so heavy, you know, thick. So my cousins made me, I start, they took a braid over here and they wrapped it around and they stick with pins over, and I was walking like this. (she indicates) Couldn't move. And we moved to, to Brooklyn, they lived in the Bronx. The first thing I did, I walked into the barber shop, I said, (unintelligible) give me a haircut. Then I have haircuts. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Well, tell me about leaving the Ukraine and getting, and getting to Latvia.

GOLDMAN:

We had, see, first we had to wait till the, they picked the, the, they opened the quota, because you couldn't even think of going. They didn't let us out. America didn't let us in. And then they opened up the quota, they only allowed parents to children, and children to parents. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

GOLDMAN:

...and then when we came to, we came to, from Europe, from Russia to Latvia in, in Liepa [sic], Liepa, you know...

LEVINE:

Liepaja.

GOLDMAN:

Liepaja.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

And they have a big immigrant house there. They came from more, they came every, every part of Russia, they used to come there, maybe a thousand people. And we had to wait, we came in - in February, and, and we boarded the ship in, in June. February, March...

LEVINE:

So what was the immigrant house like?

GOLDMAN:

It's like a big hotel, but different. We had rooms. It's, it's a big building. And they had a dining room there, and everything, entertainment, whatever you wanted. And they put the women separate, the men separate. So, I, I, we had, they were like dormitories, you know. We had four, I think, four or five on one side of us, ten or ten stuck in a, in a, the room was bigger than this. It was beds on one side and the other side. So they winded [sic], they, we, I had four brothers, so they, they were separate, they were with the men. Only my younger brother was with, I think, or two of my younger brothers, I don't remember. And my mother, and I had a sister. So we were that. And the, the rest, the rest were, the, all the separate people, I got acquainted with, I have a friend that I met there. I'm still friends with (unintelligible)

LEVINE:

Really.

GOLDMAN:

We came together. We have fam...

LEVINE:

Is she in Brooklyn?

GOLDMAN:

In Borough Park. Because when we came here they came to her mother's grand-- her mother's parents. They were, they were four sisters, (unintelligible) four sisters and one brother.

LEVINE:

What's your friend's name?

GOLDMAN:

Ma-- Lili - Ma—Malkele - they—Millie--. Mollie I call her. Mollie and there was Mollie and Mary,and what was, her youngest sister's name is, do you remember?

ISRAEL:

Charlotte.

GOLDMAN:

Charlotte. Was another one there, I think that's all. Three sisters, right?

LEVINE:

Well, so you met her, did you pay as though you were like paying for...

GOLDMAN:

Everything was paid for. My father paid. They sent money, and then...

LEVINE:

For the immigrant house as well?

GOLDMAN:

Yeah. My brother went to work, got a job in, in town. He was a cap maker. So he got a job in town. And, and then we, he had to send money, so my mother (unintelligible) kitchen, and we used to go in, in the town. There's a lot fish there, you know, she used to buy fish. She used to cook the fish there, and the neighbor, she used to pay for the, for the, right on the corner like, because we...

LEVINE:

Are you talking about in, in, in Latvia?

GOLDMAN:

In Latvia, yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

Because there was a lot of fish there. They sold, we, we couldn't cook in, in the, in the place. There was a lot of rooms there, you know. But they had a restaurant, but it's expensive. You couldn't, we were there from February to, to June. It's a fortune. We couldn't afford it. My father sent money, it was enough to, my brother got a job in town, and I needed shoes. I wore my shoes down. And we had to have dress. I had to wear a white dress that my mother bought me, my, my sister. And I walked around all day looking for a pair of shoes, and in the end I find because I had, that time I wore a size three, and they have, they have shoes like this that are gondolas. They're big people there. So tall. I'm telling you, they, they, so we came, and had all dressed up. But we were there from February I think until, until June.

LEVINE:

Do you remember when you were told that the quota was open again?

GOLDMAN:

We were waiting for it. Sure. The first, we were first, they told us we can do it already. They took, they took our pass, the pass, the passports and everything. Everything legal, you know, we didn't come, nothing not legal. Everything was legal.

LEVINE:

And what was the name of the ship?

GOLDMAN:

Polonia.

LEVINE:

Polonia. And do you remember anything about that voyage?

GOLDMAN:

With a, you see, we, it was a, I worried that we everybody knew each other. Because everybody came to, to, to come to America and they di the quota. The quota wasn't open, not only to, from Russia, from Latvia, from Czechoslovakia, from all over. Was a big immigrant house. The house was, I'm telling you, like from here to-- it was a hotel like, you know. So they used to come and park there. So when they're calling, going to the ship, every dressed up in white, it was a procession. We filled up a whole ship right away.

LEVINE:

Were people wearing white for some reason?

GOLDMAN:

They wanted of the, I don't know, they wanted white. We wore, I don't know. I can't tell you exactly because I was, I was too busy running around. (she laughs) I, I don't know, but we wore, I had white -- white dresses. And...

LEVINE:

So everybody pretty much knew each other by the time you got on the ship?

GOLDMAN:

We knew, We were all friends.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

You see, they had nothing to do. We ate whatever we ate, and after that we couldn't go out for a walk outside because it was all the way on the outskirts away from the town, and I think I was in town just when I went to go for shoes. And, and there was a, a big hallway that everybody walked back and forth. That's why I got acquainted with them. And, and that's all. And I remember my brother, my older brother was, we had friends, you know, he made friends. He used to go out, sneak out and go out. But they, they locked the door at ten o'clock. The outside door was locked. So that one day they, they used to climb in there, friends, window, outside. So one day, they did it a couple of times like that, and then one day they, they played - they played them dirty. They took out the spring from the mattress, the people. The people that were there, took the spring from the mattress and put it aside and put the mattress on top when they were climbing from the window, it's on the floor. (she laughs) You see that?

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

We had a lot of fun, you know, I always had a lot of, we made fun, we had a lot of fun.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything that struck you about Liepaja in Latvia?

GOLDMAN:

I don't know. They didn't, I, I really don't know. I'll tell you something. They didn't like the Jew. We were, when we got on the ship it was still Latvia I think. And we went in Germany, in Danzig. Danzig. We stopped for two days. Because we, we went before they -- we opened up the quota. We had to wait here in Ellis Island for two days before they let us in. So they, they opened up the quota, so I said to my friend, let's go for a walk. It was in Danzig, Germany. It was Germany that time. So I walked out with two of my friends, and we walk out, and there is, just got off the ship, and there two, Verflucht, verfluchte Jude. [damn Jews] I say let's go back. Danzig. "Verfluchte Jude." They didn't even know us from Adam. (she laughs) How you like that. So we stayed on the ship for two days with the, because they took our time, you see, because we had to wait here two days before they let us in.

LEVINE:

Well, tell me, is there anything about the voyage itself that, that stands out in your mind? Anything...

GOLDMAN:

Well, there...

LEVINE:

...that happened.

GOLDMAN:

There was a lot fun, we were, they, we had movies there. We had the third class. So it was on the ground floor like. (He said he was in, in the --) "Where were you, Izzy?"

LEVINE:

In steerage?

GOLDMAN:

Your accom...

ISRAEL:

I was in steerage.

GOLDMAN:

Steerage. Steer-- we were in, I used to sit, sit by the window, watch the waves, you know. We were the third cla-- the third class. We had, I had, I think my mother and I and my two younger brothers had a bunk. And then I had, my two other brothers were with a ma—with someone, with somebody else. But my friends, the one we're friends here, with her father, with her father and brother. That's how I got acquainted with them. And that's what, what we, what they have the bunk there.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So you mentioned that there was an elderly man who kept a journal. Do you remember abut that?

GOLDMAN:

Yes. He was a, he was a poet. And he used to write everything was happened on the ship on the journ-- you see, we used to ri-- the ship used to go very slow because we had plenty of time. So it takes time here, it takes time in Danzig two days, and there somewhere else because over here we had to wait two days before they let us in. But we were moving. So he, we were watching movies on the, on the top floor. Yeah, the top floor we were watching movies. They used to give us movies there. So we're sit and watching movies, and then one of the, the films caught fire. So one is sitting by the, by us, the, on the, next, "Oh, I'm goin' -- where's my baggáge - my baggáge? It's going to --" She's going to grab the baggáge because it's burning. They got scared. It's just, you know, film caught fire ,went up in a minute. It was so funny. So after that we had a man that used to write poetry like. So he wrote the whole thing, and we were laughing. But the baggáge, everybody was first laughing because she, she, "I'm going to go get my baggáge." What would she do with the baggáge. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, now, do you remember ship coming into the New York Harbor?

GOLDMAN:

Yes. We had to wait two days before they let us in?

LEVINE:

And, and why did you...

GOLDMAN:

My father, because they didn't, the quota wasn't open yet.

LEVINE:

Okay.

GOLDMAN:

And my father took a little boat, and we looked, I saw him from far away. He waved to us. I looked over the, the railing.

LEVINE:

And did you remember him?

GOLDMAN:

Eleven years, I tell you, I, he sent a picture of us, but, of him, but my mother recognized him right away. I remember, I didn't remember him exactly but I recognized him.

LEVINE:

And what was, what did he do? He came by a little row boat...

GOLDMAN:

He came, he, he took, there were little boats running out, so he rented one, the -- somebody else was rowing and he was in the boat. And he waved to us. He recognized my mother. He had pictures of us, you know. Because ten years was a lot, a lot, eleven years.

LEVINE:

Yeah. So...

GOLDMAN:

Eleven years. But...

LEVINE:

So, you had to, what was your impression of Ellis Island?

GOLDMAN:

My impression of Ellis Island? I'd like to be home. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. What happened to you there?

GOLDMAN:

It's, you see what it is, it, it made a very bad - bad feeling, because here we waited so long, you know. And finally waited two days before they opened up the quo-- the quota to go. And then, oh, yes, and then all of a sudden they, my mother caught a cold. My mother caught a cold. You know how you get the sniffles. They want to send her back. We got in Ellis Island here, and right away they marked the sh-- because she was sniffling it -- to send her back. They're coming in now in, from, on the plane, and the next day they're in the hospital over here. That's perfect, but over there they had to be everything just perfect. There was a couple there that they used to look in their hair. Their hair had to be clean. She -- God forbid it's going to have the -- a nit in it, you know. That, then a little boy maybe they, maybe they didn't keep us in, I don't know. So the -- they found something, they want to send, they want to send him back, they remain there. They didn't let him go on the ship.

LEVINE:

So what happened? Your mother had a cold and...

GOLDMAN:

So my mother caught a cold. And she wanted to, and when we came to, to Ellis Island here they want to send her back.

LEVINE:

So what happened?

GOLDMAN:

So my, my, my mother's niece was here, and she had a friend of her that had, had something with the H.I.A.S., that she was a friend, maybe she belonged there. They want to send her back because she's got a cold. So she arranged it that, we, my, my uncle took us to his house for five days, four days I think. She was two days or three days in the Ellis Island. My sister stayed with her. She was a deposit. And the rest of us went to my uncle's house until they let her out, till she cleaned up the cold.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

GOLDMAN:

Everything had to come hard, you know. But, but, and, and that's what I mean when that, when they want, and I heard that they want to send us back. Send us back now? Ridiculous. So I, I got, I got so hysterical. I got hyster-- I never cried like that. You know, because the, the nerves I guess gave out, you know, all the, the big excitement. So then when they -- breakfast, I came to breakfast in the morning, the big dining room table. And this, said, "Rosa, I didn't eat." And for years I didn't talk -- touch any rolls. (she laughs) But, you know, it was very painful. But everything had to come, but finally here.

LEVINE:

Okay, now, so then you went with your father from Ellis Island?

GOLDMAN:

Hmm-hmm.

LEVINE:

And...

GOLDMAN:

He had an apartment for us.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

GOLDMAN:

No, we didn't, he didn't have an apartment yet. We went to my uncle's the Bronx.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay. And, and...

GOLDMAN:

And he got an apartment in Borough Park, because he had that, he, you see, my, my uncle wanted my father to be in business, so he opened up an appetizing store, with my unc, my father there. And then when I, when I came there, I was the one to sit there. And I didn't know English, so I used to caught up on my reading, nobody opened the store. And there was no air conditioning that, no...

ISRAEL:

Refrigeration.

GOLDMAN:

...refrigeration at the time. So they, the couple white fishes they had in the, in the counter there was already -- talking to each other, because they had the best means to do it. (she laughs) Threw it out. I cleaned it up, I found a pair of pants underneath -- my father's on the bottom of the counter. I did everything but it, it didn't go. So finally I said sell it. Give it up. Close the store. And I went to work. And I went to work, I never worked in my life on a machine. I never saw an electric machine. But I was handy. You know, believe me, I'm not lying. This is no lie now what I'm telling you. I came in, and my friend, that's in, when, she's my maid of honor now, that I met, lived in Borough Park, because she's, I met her on the avenue, so she took me to that place where she was working there as a presser. And her older sister also worked there on the machines (unintelligible). They used to make the bed ties, you know, they tie them up, and then press them. So I came in, he wanted to, what do you want to do, you want to make a presser? I turned and I said, "I want to work on a machine. Let me try." So he gives me a lining, and I had to put a gauge to it. "Make a straight seam." Made a straight seam." You know something (unintelligible). I work there when nobody was working here, work for me. I used to make sixty dollars a week -- in those days when a bookkeeper made sixteen. And I remember like today. I -- in the beginning I made very little, because I was learning how to work on the machine, and I, whatever, do it. So I did what every kind of work, hard work used to come to me. Seventy dollars a week I used to make, but that's the payday.. So here my brother got a job in New York as a, as a, as a cap maker - cap-- by hats. Millinery. And I was making two dollars a week, I made sometimes nothing, a whole summer because I, I was learning. And so my brother says to me, "Why did you come to work for me, come right in New York. He says, "You could make a nice, better living here, at least ten dollars a week more. What are you making here? Nothing." I said, " N-- no. I'll see what happens." So I told my boss. I say, "Mr. Chernov, I got a problem," I say, "Here it's getting cold out. I need a coat. My brother wants me to go to work in New York. A millinery. And that I make more money. But I need a coat. I have no money to buy. What should I do? My father, "I said," took us over here and we pay, we have to pay it out." That time three thousand dollars was a fortune. Because I think like three hundred now, it was a five cents car fare. And now you pay how much car fare? So he says to, you know, "Dina," he called me, "Look," he says. (That's where I got my name Dina.) He says, "I'll give you money for a coat. I'll give you a hundred dollar. Buy yourself a coat. You'll pay me out." Because whatever he gave me to make I made, any kind, any kind of the -- stuff what came in with a very narrow seam to sew I did it. He came me later to a job, that's how I got acquainted with him. He'll tell you. He wouldn't let me go, so I bought a coat. And when, then when I, so, and then it got busy in there, they sent in a union man to help out. And then he left, and he wanted, and the, and the union, they pay more. It was piece work, it was all piece work that time. So he went away and he calls me up in the house. He says, "Why did you come to work with me?" He says, "You'll make ten, fifteen dollars a week more." I said, "I cannot do it to my boss." Never. He talked to me, when he was there he was talking to me. He called me from the, from the candy store, he called. We didn't have a telephone yet. He called me (unintelligible). And, and then, because if somebody was nice to me, would you, would you do that? Put yourself in mine, would you go away from him? I couldn't. Couldn't do it. So, so I made, I made enough money. I had, I had, I was all right. I wasn't that greedy. But I did, every kind of special came in, it was my, had to do it. He, his...

ISRAEL:

[not understood]

LEVINE:

Why don't you tell...

GOLDMAN:

All those curtains, I did it.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

You see.

GOLDMAN:

I used to make covers on the, the be-- on the furniture. Now I don't do it. Now I can't even see, not only can't I see through the needle, not the needle - sew on a button.

LEVINE:

Tell me how you, your rendition of meeting your husband.

GOLDMAN:

He came to make a job. That's why we got acquainted. He worked, he didn't work all the time. He worked a short time in the, in the next, I had to teach him how to work the weekly work. Because he worked, he worked on long ties and I worked on the bed ties, you know. So I was start next to him. I used to teach him how to work it. In lunchtime we were in Borough Park, Ninth Ave. there is the end - end of the - near the cemetery there, it was the subway was going down. So we used to play ball. Catch ball all the time. (she laughs) But he never wanted to learn to dance. He's sorry now, but he wouldn't tell me that.

ISRAEL:

I'm sorry.

GOLDMAN:

Yes, you are.

ISRAEL:

And you -- am I sorry? Why?

GOLDMAN:

Because I know the way you watch on when they are, when they all dance. You look all the fun you miss...

ISRAEL:

I'm not watching somebody else...

GOLDMAN:

Ah, come on, you do.

LEVINE:

So, so let's see. What would you say you're most proud of in your life, what you've done?

GOLDMAN:

My children. You know, I was sitting by the children, by the machine all the time, and I used to say to myself, 'Not my children. Not -- if I have children, they're not going to be in shop.' Went to school, went to college, all right. She met a nice guy. Also she married. He, she, she wanted to take piano lessons. I bought a piano. I bought a little upright piano. We never, to put it to live in this New York I think. And I put it, and I, I think, I paid it out, got a teacher to come to the house. And then my older one started, she wanted to, she went to learn to play piano, so she used to go to the piano teacher, and she met her husband there. And he's...

LEVINE:

Do you think being an immigrant made a difference?

GOLDMAN:

I don't...

LEVINE:

Starting out in another country...

GOLDMAN:

I don't think...

LEVINE:

...and then coming over and starting over again?

GOLDMAN:

I don't know. Can't tell you. I've never been an American born. But if I would have been here I would have went to school. I start to go to school in Borough Park, and over there, you know, I used to love to read. So I couldn't read English, so I used to read Russian, and I couldn't get Russian. [not understood] my father put me in the, in the appetizing store so I had nothing to do, so I start reading. I couldn't get an English, couldn't read English, and I couldn't get Russian books, so I learned to read Yiddish, because I knew how to read a little Yiddish. One day, it took me one day a page, but in the end I read a book like this. You see, it, the -- there's a will. Now I can't read. I can't see.

ISRAEL:

[not understood]

GOLDMAN:

I, so I used to, I used to go to, to the, to the library and get books. So I went, I, and he was, we were going to, he lived in, in Canarsie he lived. And I lived on Hopkin, was it Hopkinson Avenue?

ISRAEL:

Hmm-hmm.

GOLDMAN:

Hopkinson, I got married from the Hopkinson Avenue - Hopkinson -- from [not understood] . You know that neighborhood?

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

GOLDMAN:

It's in, in the Brownsville. So I, I used to go to, went to work, go to school on, on Sackman Avenue [sic]. And it's a long walk. No way of, there was no bus at that time. Trolley cars. And the trolley car didn't go there. I had to walk. I used to work, work till six o'clock, come home, grab a bite, and by half past seven I had to be in (unintelligible) seven o'clock came home, by eight o'clock I was in school. And I, and you know something, there's a lot of people, young men-- people came in from Europe at that time, because they opened up the quota. They came in, they came to school. They didn't come to learn. They came to make dates.

LEVINE:

Oh.

GOLDMAN:

And they used to give a fifteen se-- fifteen minutes recess. So there was no end to it. So he used to meet me outside. He says, "What do you need them for? You can't learn to read like this." So I started buying the True Story magazine. It's very easy in English there. Then I threw it away. Then I start reading books. And I can open up a library, but I can't see now. So I get the talking books.

LEVINE:

Oh.

GOLDMAN:

They talk, they, they read to me. But it's not the same.

LEVINE:

What, what, what is this phase of your life like, this phase that your in now?

GOLDMAN:

The life now?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

GOLDMAN:

I wouldn't change it for the other. What, what's so good about the other life, that, where they had, didn't have enough to eat, and you had to bake bread, and you had to bring the water from the well, and then, and I was the one to carry it. And wash the clothes. It wasn't easy. It was very hard work. Not, they had no, no toilet inside. You had to go out. See, it wasn't, my, my uncle lived in a big, a big city, so I used to, there it was more, more already, more modernized. But it's a small town, they never knew better, and then that, to leave that from them, that was, we were glad to get out.

LEVINE:

Can you think of any changes that were really momentous that you experienced in your lifetime? Things that changed, or, or ways that maybe you changed, or...

GOLDMAN:

What can, what can I tell you, honey? There's a lot of, a lot of things that I experienced that I don't even want to talk about. I had a son, we had a son, eleven years old. I don't want to have that. He was a very (unintelligible) boy, beautiful boy. He might be even taller than I, and blond with blue eyes. That was my initiation. That's why I have my daughter, my younger daughter, seven years younger than he was. He died. He was eleven years old. And he was, and my younger daughter now ir af lange yur [long life to her] was six years younger. He was six years older. And this one, now my younger one is seven years older than my younger daughter. You see, I have everything came not, not here, just like that. I went through a depression that was very hard. It was, wasn't easy. I had to move with my parents, and that was a bad move. Not that I didn't get along. I get along with anybody. That doesn't bother me. But, such memories.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

GOLDMAN:

Just memories.

LEVINE:

Hmm-hmm. What are your fondest memories? What was a really nice time in your life?

GOLDMAN:

Nice time in my life. I don't know. Maybe when I was younger. When I was very young. Whatever I did I did it with a, with a, with a zest. Isn't that so? What can, what else can it be? Because once to get in, I got married, we had it pretty good for a while, you know, then my son was born and everything was fine, and then the Depression got in, and then this and that. And he caught cold, and then he got sicker, and, they had him in the hospital, and then my dad pulled him out for six years. He was six, and he got sick all over again, than that's all. Rheumatic fever. They didn't have penicillin that time. But that's what happened, you know, so I had a good time. It's a, could write a book about it. Don't think - I think at night. You see. What can I tell you?

LEVINE:

So now you have grandchildren and great grandchildren

GOLDMAN:

Lange yur [long life.]. My - my youngest gr—great grandson He's not the youngest. He's going to be going to school. That's six - seven years old. He's walking with me the other day, over here, comes here. "Grandma, what does a woman's body look like?" (they laugh) Now, what was - I say, "You find out in you time." How would you like that? Six years old I said, "What?" He says,"Grandma, what's with a woman?" He was walkin' to him across the street over there. And I says, "You find out in you time." What to say, get in the head like that. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

That's funny.

GOLDMAN:

He's very bad. Comes here, he's got a job. "Grandma, where is?" He's going to water my plants. That's his job. It could be water to the top, he's got to water. That's his job. He's very cute. Cute boy. You saw his picture here.

LEVINE:

So is there anything else that you can think of before we close about...

GOLDMAN:

What do I...

LEVINE:

...coming to this country...

GOLDMAN:

Coming to this...

LEVINE:

...living your life here...

GOLDMAN:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Any words of wisdom that you want to, that you've arrived at through your life and came...

GOLDMAN:

You have to live while you can. Life is short. Now my kid, my daughter goes here, go, "Ma, I'm going to go." "Gey gezuntereyt und kom gezuntereyt." You know what that means?

LEVINE:

Tell me.

GOLDMAN:

Hmm?

LEVINE:

No.

GOLDMAN:

Go, go healthy and come back healthy. How come you don't know how, what it means? You don't ta-- don't know Yiddish at all, eh? You see, she knows that because it's me. I talk it -- My daughter don't t—t—one of them talk Yiddish - don't talk Yiddish.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

GOLDMAN:

I mean, I don't think (unintelligible) I think at night. You see? What can I tell you?

LEVINE:

So now you have grandchildren and great grandchildren?

GOLDMAN:

I have a cousin that I have to bring from Russia two years ago. No, it's more than two years ago. When did, when did Asa [PH] get here, Izzy?

ISRAEL:

About two and a half years ago.

GOLDMAN:

Two, three years ago. And I went to see her to, to California. But I couldn't bring her here because I have no room for her. But I, I gave money and I helped, you know. So, because she wrote to me, and I write answer, because to write, to speak Russian, I speak a good Russian yet. The kids tell me Russian yet. I'm only here seventy years now. But if you learned it, you read you don't forget right away. But that's what it is. Can't do it. You do the best you can.

LEVINE:

Okay, well, the tape is just about over. I want to thank you very much...

GOLDMAN:

Such a pleasure. Look at, I talked my stuff out.

LEVINE:

...for a very interesting interview.

GOLDMAN:

I talked my stuff out. (they laugh)

LEVINE:

Good. Okay. Well, I've been talking now with Mrs. Goldman, having spoken with Mr. Goldman earlier. And your name, you go by Diana now...

GOLDMAN:

Yes. I don't know why it's the name.

LEVINE:

And we're here in Brooklyn on West 5th Street. And it's May 17th, 1994, and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service, and I'm signing off.

GOLDMAN:

Thank you very much.

LEVINE:

Thank you.

GOLDMAN:

It's a pleasure. I'm telling, I'm remember you, somebody else remember me, too. (they laugh)

LEVINE:

Yes. Now you'll be remembered.

GOLDMAN:

Very good. EI-474GOLDMAN