SIGRIST:

This is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. Today is Tuesday, September 27 th , 1996. I'm in Longmeadow, Massachusetts at the Jewish Nursing Home and I'm here with — is your first Celia?

ZELLER:

C-E-L-I-A.

SIGRIST:

Celia Zeller.

ZELLER:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Z-E-L-L-E-R.

CZ:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

And what was the country that you came from, Austria?

ZELLER:

Yeah, I came from — let me talk fast. The capital of Austria, Chernovitz. [PH]

SIGRIST:

Chernovitz.

ZELLER:

Austria.

SIGRIST:

That was the — the town that you were born in?

ZELLER:

Born, yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what your birth date is?

ZELLER:

Yes. Now, remember in Europe it wasn't so [unclear] down there.

SIGRIST:

Right.

ZELLER:

Europe. As far as I know, it's October 16, 1906.

SIGRIST:

1906, and — [phone rings] — and you — you think that when you came to this country you were how old?

ZELLER:

Let me — let me think again.

SIGRIST:

Sure, go ahead.

ZELLER:

My father brought us over. I was six years old.

SIGRIST:

You were about six years old. [someone speaking on intercom in background]

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. So, you probably came to this country maybe 1912-1913?

ZELLER:

A year before the war.

SIGRIST:

1913.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

1913. Great. Mrs. Zeller, can you tell me what your name was when you were born in Austria?

ZELLER:

Yes. [pause] I know it, but I forgot it.

SIGRIST:

Well, what was your maiden name before you were married? Zeller is a — is your married name?

ZELLER:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Yes.

ZELLER:

Yes. Beck, B-E-C-K.

SIGRIST:

B-E-C-K. Great. When you say that you were born in — in Chernovitz —

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Is that in the country of Austria or the —

ZELLER:

Yes, that's the capital.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh or — what I'm wondering is was it the Austro-Hungarian Empire?

ZELLER:

It was part of the Austrian Empire. It was the capital city of Austria.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. What — what do you remember as a — [intercom] — as a young girl about that? About living there?

ZELLER:

Well, as a young girl I came over to this country, so you see, I wasn't a young girl in —

SIGRIST:

Do you have any memories of Europe? Like — like the house that you lived in?

ZELLER:

Yes, we lived with my grandfather and grandmother. My father was in America writing my mother letters. I could write a book on that.

SIGRIST:

Well, what were some of the things he was saying about America?

ZELLER:

It's a beautiful country, but I — we should stay in Europe. He had a girlfriend.

SIGRIST:

Here in the United States?

ZELLER:

[unclear] Huh?

SIGRIST:

He had a girlfriend in the United States?

ZELLER:

Yes. Yeah, but in Europe, here people went to lawyers. In Europe you went to the rabbi. That I still remember that my mother went to the rabbi and showed a letter that my father — in those years [unclear] telephone. It was letters. So he wrote a letter to my father, "Shame on you. You got three beautiful children here and you want to leave them? Well, who are you leaving them to? To two old people? " You know, he gave him — that I still remember, as little I was. That kind of put him to shame that a rabbi should write him a letter like that. So it didn't take long that he sent us what do you call it? A —

SIGRIST:

Money?

ZELLER:

No. A — a — what do you call when you go on a boat?

SIGRIST:

Ticket?

ZELLER:

Yeah, tickets for to go on a boat to come to America. And of course, my grandfather — they all [unclear]. My grandfather used to make money making [unclear]. You know what [unclear] are? What you bury people in. Those shrouds.

SIGRIST:

A shroud, uh-huh.

ZELLER:

So he used to make money like. So he — he used to help us a little bit.

SIGRIST:

Can you say that word slowly for me once?

ZELLER:

What?

SIGRIST:

[unclear]

ZELLER:

[unclear – no clue how to spell this Hebrew word] See, [unclear], how to you say hah?

SIGRIST:

Like C-H-E, hah?

ZELLER:

Something like that. [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

That means those white shrouds.

SIGRIST:

Burial shrouds.

ZELLER:

That's — that's what they were, burial shroud.

SIGRIST:

Is that a Yiddish word [unclear]?

ZELLER:

[unclear]. That I can't tell you if it's a — a — what's it?

SIGRIST:

Hebrew?

ZELLER:

Hebrew word.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. What language did you speak in Europe?

ZELLER:

Yiddish.

SIGRIST:

Yiddish.

ZELLER:

Yeah, only Yiddish.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. So you started saying your grandfather did what? He made the shrouds. He gave you money or —

ZELLER:

Right, there was — see, my father was in America so we lived with my grandfather and grandmother. There was three of us, two brothers and me, and my — there was no telephone call. Was used to be by letter. "Shame on you. You got a beautiful family," you know, [unclear] the rabbi got into it [unclear]. It's a terrible thing I'm talking about a history of my own family.

SIGRIST:

Where was your father living in the United States?

ZELLER:

New York.

SIGRIST:

He was in New York City?

ZELLER:

See, he was in the garment industry. He was a tailor, so he worked in the garment industry. [phone rings]

SIGRIST:

Is that what he had done in Europe?

ZELLER:

Evidently.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

He was a tailor. Everybody, you know, they work in these little shops in Europe. [phone rings]

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about life with your mother and your brothers before you left Austria?

ZELLER:

It was very difficult. Our poor mother, our father was busy carousing here in the country and my mother had to depend on two old people. This I knew.

SIGRIST:

Those were her parents? Your mother's parents.

ZELLER:

No, my father's parents.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh, and this is the — the grandfather that made the shrouds?

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

Right.

SIGRIST:

Can you talk a little bit about your grandparents and what sticks out in your mind about them?

ZELLER:

I'll tell you, they were plain, old grandparents. Maybe not so old, but to me, you know. She used to cook good.

SIGRIST:

What did she cook?

ZELLER:

Chicken — those years, chicken soup. You know, things like that and she used to make knadle. [PH]You know, that's the little balls in chicken soup. They didn't make big fusses in those years.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe for me the house where you lived with them, what it looked like?

ZELLER:

Well, that's one thing I tell you so. My grandfather did pretty good in his work. I mean, that I remember. We had a brick house, which was very unusual that you had a good house. We lived with them, but you had to go to the toilet in the backyard, see. And otherwise, it was a simple house. Had a big fireplace and my brother used to sleep on top of the fireplace. See, that I remember.

SIGRIST:

It comes back to you as you talk.

ZELLER:

Yeah. Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember any of the furniture in the house?

ZELLER:

No, that I can't even tell you.

SIGRIST:

You mentioned your brother. Are your brothers older than you?

ZELLER:

Yes, all of them are.

SIGRIST:

What were their names?

ZELLER:

One was — are you a Springfield man?

SIGRIST:

No.

ZELLER:

Oh. My brother was very popular. A very — in Springfield. He was a cost accountant, my brother.

SIGRIST:

An accountant.

ZELLER:

Yeah, he graduated University of Pennsylvania.

SIGRIST:

What was his name? Old brother first.

ZELLER:

Jonas Heit, H-E-I-T.

SIGRIST:

H-I —

ZELLER:

H-E-I-T. That was my maiden name.

SIGRIST:

Oh, your maiden name is Heit?

ZELLER:

H-E-I-T.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. You had told me a little earlier that Beck was your maiden name.

ZELLER:

That was my mother's name.

SIGRIST:

That was your mother's name.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

I see, okay.

ZELLER:

Beck.

SIGRIST:

So — so your name when you were born was Celia Heit.

ZELLER:

I was a Heit girl.

SIGRIST:

Heit, okay. And so Jonas was the older brother.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

And what — who was the next brother?

ZELLER:

Louie. Louis.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

And then there was Maxie.

SIGRIST:

Maxine?

ZELLER:

No, Maxie.

SIGRIST:

Maxie.

ZELLER:

We called him Max.

SIGRIST:

Was he born in the United States?

ZELLER:

Yeah, all —

SIGRIST:

After you got here.

ZELLER:

M-A-X.

SIGRIST:

I see, but the three of you were all born in Europe, Jonas —

ZELLER:

Yeah, even Max. No, Max was born in America.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. What were some of the things that your mother did to take care of the house in Austria?

ZELLER:

She didn't work. So what could she do? Cook, clean like every — every mother does that.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother want to come to the United States?

ZELLER:

Of course. Of course she did, and there was a few years, I understand, by history, that he kept putting it off because he had a girlfriend here.

SIGRIST:

But the intention was eventually that he would go and bring everybody over?

ZELLER:

Well, it was — this I remember as a child. Neighbors had to come and write letters to my father. The rabbit wrote a letter to my father. [unclear]. You know, "Shame, you have the family here and you're neglecting them," and this and that. So by shame he took us over.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about getting ready to leave Austria? Do you remember packing or anything?

ZELLER:

Oh, yeah. I remember packing and I remember riding in a — what do you call a horse and buggy? What do you call it?

SIGRIST:

Carriage?

ZELLER:

Yeah, to go and visit relatives to say so long. That I do remember.

SIGRIST:

What did you pack?

ZELLER:

What could I pack, a kid?

SIGRIST:

What did your mother pack? Do you remember what the family took with them when they left?

ZELLER:

Just a few clothes. Clothes. We couldn't carry furniture. Maybe pictures or something like, my mother took, but I don't remember big things. I haven't got — I tell you, you took the wrong person.

SIGRIST:

Well, you're doing — you're dong a great job. Really, you are. You've got a good memory.

ZELLER:

Because I haven't got a — a big history to tell you.

SIGRIST:

You're doing a great job.

ZELLER:

I'm just a plain — I was a plain kid.

SIGRIST:

You mentioned that you remember visiting these relatives saying goodbye.

ZELLER:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SIGRIST:

Does anything stick out in your mind about being a little girl and having to do that? Like, how did that make you feel?

ZELLER:

I did. Are you Jewish?

SIGRIST:

No.

ZELLER:

I had a Bubba — that means grandmother.

SIGRIST:

Bubba.

ZELLER:

Bubba and she was the only one that I — no, I had two, another bubba with a zeida. [PH]You know what a zeida is? A grandfather. But that bubba, that was my mother's mother. She lived in — what's it? I'll think of the name. It's the capital of Austria. What is that?

SIGRIST:

Well, you were saying that you came from Chernovitz.

ZELLER:

That's it, capital of Austria, yeah. My grandmother lived there. So I used to go visit there.

SIGRIST:

Yeah, what do you remember about her?

ZELLER:

Just a little old lady.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember saying goodbye to her?

ZELLER:

Of course, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SIGRIST:

What sticks out in your mind about having to do that?

ZELLER:

Cry. But you see, she lived in Chernovitz and we lived in Vizchnitz. [PH]That's like Westfield out of Springfield.

SIGRIST:

Vizchnitz.

ZELLER:

Vizchnitz, see, and she lived in Chernovitz. That was a big city. I enjoyed the big city because they had a circus there, you know what I mean? Chernovitz.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember going to the circus?

ZELLER:

Sure, my grandfather — grandmother, grandfather took me there. Oh, sure they had a big circus.

SIGRIST:

Did you see something at the circus that you had never seen before?

ZELLER:

I don't remember. [intercom] A circus is a circus.

SIGRIST:

A circus is a circus.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Where did your family have to go to get on the ship to come to America?

ZELLER:

Yeah, that I remember. What a terrible thing.

SIGRIST:

Where did you go from?

ZELLER:

Uhh.

SIGRIST:

How did you — what city did you get on the ship?

ZELLER:

I have to think. Well, we were in Vienna. We did have to go to — I forgot.

SIGRIST:

Forgot. Do you re — what do you remember about the ship? What — what memories?

ZELLER:

Ship? I remember the — the name.

SIGRIST:

What was the name?

ZELLER:

Ship America.

SIGRIST:

It was the America.

ZELLER:

Ship America. Nice ship.

SIGRIST:

Where did you sleep on the ship?

ZELLER:

We all had a cabin. Just my brothers, me, my mother. We had a cabin.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh, and what did you do during the day when you were on the ship?

ZELLER:

Ran around like mashuginas. [PH]You know what that is?

SIGRIST:

No.

ZELLER:

Crazy.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh. What do you remember seeing while you were on the ship?

ZELLER:

Well, we saw somebody fall overboard, but they got him. That experience I did see myself.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how they got him?

ZELLER:

Huh?

SIGRIST:

How did they get him out of the water, do you remember?

ZELLER:

I don't know. They threw something. Yeah, I don't remember. I was a little girl, you know, but I knew they got him out.

SIGRIST:

Well, that's interesting. I've never heard anyone say that before.

ZELLER:

Yeah. Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember eating on the ship?

ZELLER:

Yeah. It was all right.

SIGRIST:

Where did you eat?

ZELLER:

In a big, big room. Oh, I have to tell [unclear] I forgot. My mother — no, she didn't cook. Of course not. I forgot. But we ate some —

SIGRIST:

It probably was in a big, big room, yeah. Do you remember how long the ship took to get to New York?

ZELLER:

Seven days.

SIGRIST:

About seven days. Did you see the Statue of Liberty when the ship —

ZELLER:

Yes, I did. Absolutely. They pointed it out and we all went, saw.

SIGRIST:

Now, tell me a little bit about what happened when the family ended up at Ellis Island. You told me a little bit before we started.

ZELLER:

We were sitting. My poor mother was sitting in Ellis Island with the three of us. No father. Nobody came. My poor mother. I had an older brother, Jonas. He was one of the bright boys. He graduated University of Pennsylvania, but even as a child he was. So I remember my mother talking to him, "What's going to become of us if he doesn't come to pick us up? We're in Ellis Island now." But he came a day late.

SIGRIST:

Did you stay over night at Ellis Island?

ZELLER:

Of course.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember?

ZELLER:

On a bench. [intercom] When I see a bench, this is the kind of a bench we stayed over night. But I want to tell you something, you got — are you married?

SIGRIST:

No.

ZELLER:

My mother never forgot that night that we stayed in Ellis Island. She gave it to him twenty-four hours a day because he left her in Ellis Island. I [unclear] that. I mean, as a child you hear, you know.

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about what it looked like?

ZELLER:

Ellis Island?

SIGRIST:

On the inside, yeah.

ZELLER:

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it doesn't even look like that now.

SIGRIST:

No, it probably doesn't. So he finally came.

ZELLER:

Yeah. [intercom] He came. He came and he had an apartment he fixed up for us in the Bronx. See, my father was a tailor and he always made a living. So we stayed in New York. We didn't stay very long because my father had a brother here in Springfield and he told him that he could get a job at this place where they make — you ever hear of Kinsler [PH] Company?

SIGRIST:

Kinser?

ZELLER:

Kinsler.

SIGRIST:

Kinsler, no, I haven't.

ZELLER:

No, they're still in business. [intercom] The boys took it over. What's that six pounds? [referring to what was said on the intercom} What is it?

SIGRIST:

I don't know. I was thinking that myself.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

So your family went up to Springfield then?

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember being put into school?

ZELLER:

Yeah, by my uncle.

SIGRIST:

Can you talk a little bit about that?

ZELLER:

Oh, I don't talk about that. You know, my Jewish name is Silka.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

ZELLER:

S-I-L-K-A.

SIGRIST:

S-I-L-K-A, Silka.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Silka.

ZELLER:

Yeah. My father was working so my uncle put me — brought me to school. Brought us to enter school. Of course, they asked him, "What's her name?" "Silka." So went all through school with my name S-I-L-K-A until I graduated High Commerce, changed it to Celia. I changed it.

SIGRIST:

What about learning English? Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

ZELLER:

It was different. It was difficult.

SIGRIST:

How was it difficult?

ZELLER:

Well, you had to learn from other children. Grownups wouldn't spend any time with you? My folks didn't know how to talk English.

SIGRIST:

Your father hadn't learned any English?

ZELLER:

Bah!

SIGRIST:

Not really?

ZELLER:

Nah, not much. In those years, you know, when you're an immigrant, you're an immigrant.

SIGRIST:

Did you — in Springfield, when you lived in Springfield did you live in an immigrant neighborhood?

ZELLER:

With the — yes, all the time. Yes.

SIGRIST:

What kinds of other people lived there?

ZELLER:

Mostly Yiddish.

SIGRIST:

So it was a Jewish neighborhood?

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Was there a synagogue?

ZELLER:

Oh, yeah. Oh, are you kidding?

SIGRIST:

Did you attend?

ZELLER:

I was — I wasn't the type. Neither was my mother. My mother wasn't a — my father was, but we didn't — I didn't go.

SIGRIST:

Were — because of the rather strained relationship that your parents had, was it difficult on the children once the family reunited?

ZELLER:

It was difficult because we knew what happened and my mother used to give it to him every once in a while. So he knew it.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother ever get a job in the United States?

ZELLER:

No, never.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

ZELLER:

No.

SIGRIST:

Did your father become a citizen?

ZELLER:

Oh, yeah. He was — he was a citizen. [intercom] So was my mother. Oh, yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember the experience? What — what your participation in their becoming a citizen, if there was any of your participation?

ZELLER:

Those years, you just knew that you had to become a citizen without making too many things about it. You had to become a — a citizen and by my father becoming a citizen, I became — we all became one. See.

SIGRIST:

I was just wondering if you remembered how people study or anything like that.

ZELLER:

Nah. Nah.

SIGRIST:

No. [intercom]

ZELLER:

You know, those years it wasn't like today.

SIGRIST:

Did you get a job when you got a little older?

ZELLER:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What was the first job you got?

ZELLER:

Working in bakery store.

SIGRIST:

How old?

ZELLER:

Jewish bakery. Thirteen years old.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh, and what did you have to do at the bakery?

ZELLER:

So, I learned how to talk Polish because it was a Polish neighborhood. So I — I did my — whatever I had to do.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how much you earned?

ZELLER:

Yeah, two and a half dollars a week.

SIGRIST:

And what did you do with your money?

ZELLER:

Give it to my folks. They needed it.

SIGRIST:

What kind of work did your older brother — older brothers go into?

ZELLER:

[takes a drink of water]

SIGRIST:

Do you remember?

ZELLER:

Summer they worked in tobacco fields. The summer and in the winter there was a cap company that made men's caps. After school they got jobs there. So they both went to college. They both.

SIGRIST:

Did they also contribute their money to the — to the house?

ZELLER:

Oh, yeah. Yes.

SIGRIST:

Yeah.

ZELLER:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother or father ever want to go back to Europe?

ZELLER:

No. No, life was difficult there. No. Not that — not that I ever heard [unclear], you know.

SIGRIST:

Did you ever go back —

ZELLER:

No.

SIGRIST:

To see the town that you —

ZELLER:

No.

SIGRIST:

Did you ever have any interest in doing that?

ZELLER:

No. No, not at all.

SIGRIST:

When you think of yourself in terms of nationality, how do you think of yourself?

ZELLER:

As — because I'm a Jew.

SIGRIST:

Well, do you think of yourself as Jewish or as an American or a European or how do you think of yourself?

ZELLER:

I'm an American, that's it. I don't think myself anything different. No, my children went to — are in school here and but no.

SIGRIST:

Great. Mrs. Zeller, thank you very much.

ZELLER:

Well, it was a pleasure.

SIGRIST:

That wasn't so hard. You did a great job.

ZELLER:

No. Well, I told you what I know.

SIGRIST:

This is Paul Sigrist signing off with Celia Zeller on Friday, September 27 th , 1996 at the Jewish Nursing Home in Longmeadow. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW]