LEVINE:

Okay, today is February 13, 1997.

TURANO:

'97.

LEVINE:

And I'm here in Coral Springs, Florida with Mr. Louis Turano, who came to this country when he was 10 years of age in 1911 from Italy. This is Janet Levine from the National Park Service. And we're going to go as quickly as we can because you have an appointment. But, okay, if you would just say your birthday and where in Italy you were born.

TURANO:

I was born on April the 22 nd , 1901 in the province of Kozanza [PH] and in the town of Delmonico [PH].

LEVINE:

Okay, now, what's Calabria?

TURANO:

That's considered a sort of a county. See, Calabria — Calabria consists of three provinces.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay.

TURANO:

One — one of them is Kozanza; the other one is Catanzaro [PH] and the other one is Reggio [PH].

LEVINE:

Okay. And the small town that you were from?

TURANO:

Delmonico.

LEVINE:

Delmonico. Okay, Now, when you were born did you have brothers and sisters already?

TURANO:

Yes, I had one — no, I was the first one.

LEVINE:

You were the first child?

TURANO:

Yes, first one.

LEVINE:

And your mother's name?

TURANO:

My mother's name was Josephine.

LEVINE:

And do you remember her maiden name?

TURANO:

Yes. Her maiden name was Perri — P-E-R-R-I.

LEVINE:

Okay, and your father's name?

TURANO:

Frank —

LEVINE:

Frank.

TURANO:

— Turano.

LEVINE:

Okay. And, let's see. What did your father do for work in Italy?

TURANO:

Farming.

LEVINE:

And it was a farming area?

TURANO:

Yes, was agricultural. Yes.

LEVINE:

Yeah, what were the big crops?

TURANO:

Well, whatever — mostly, whatever they grew they — was used for the living. But —

LEVINE:

In other words, it wasn't sold?

TURANO:

No, was —

LEVINE:

It was what they needed to —

TURANO:

These — years back, as far as I can remember, these big people, the people that had a lot of money used to buy these big farms and they used to let them out on sharecropping. And seeing that my grandfather had a big family, she had the best farm in the county. There was 11 of them.

LEVINE:

Eleven —

TURANO:

Eleven children.

LEVINE:

— children.

TURANO:

And they ever — every one of them worked the farm. My father, for instance, took care of the cows. My uncle took care of the pigs and the other one went with the sheep, and the other — the other one worked the ground and the women all worked the — the farm.

LEVINE:

Wow, huh.

TURANO:

And that — so that was the life there. There was no such thing as work or anything like that. What they did was help one another. Like, for instance, in the month of January they all used to kill their hogs, and each family used to help the other one.

LEVINE:

And what — then what would they do with the hog once it was [unclear]?

TURANO:

Well, they used to make sausage and super [unclear]. You know, that's a big salami. And [unclear] used to make lard, the ribs. They used to make all that stuff and preserve it.

LEVINE:

Now, how would they preserve it?

TURANO:

Oh, they used to put it in lard.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

In sort of containers, jars made out of clay, you know, and they used to preserve it that way. And in order to — to harden the salami, you know, they used to — they used to tie it and hang it up in the attics.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Did — did they keep what they grew? Like, all through the year they —

TURANO:

Well, the grain, for instance, then they — they go to a mill where they have it ground and they use a — for — they make flour and they have bread. They make the bread for two, three weeks at a clip.

LEVINE:

Like, would your mother make bread in her house?

TURANO:

No, well, my — my mother made bread but in — in somebody else's oven. In other words, in the farm, because when my father immigrated to this country we did not live on a farm anymore. We lived in a little town.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

My father used to support us by sending a few dollars from this country.

LEVINE:

How old were you when your father left?

TURANO:

Well, I was seven.

LEVINE:

I see. So had — did you start school there?

TURANO:

Yes, I went to school in Italy. I went as high as the third grade.

LEVINE:

And when you came to this country did you go to school here?

TURANO:

Yes, I went to school here. My father put in the Catholic — put me in a Catholic school.

LEVINE:

In this country?

TURANO:

In this country and the first day that I was there I was sitting. And the first thing you know there's a — the nun teacher — nun teacher was talking. I didn't know what she was talking about and I didn't know what to do. They gave me paper and something but I didn't know what to do. And the priest came in back of my desk and he sort of slapped me around my — my face from the back. And I — I thought — I felt bad. When — after school was out I went home and I told my father. My father says, "You're not going to go to that school no more." So he — he put me in the public school.

LEVINE:

And that's the school — now, where were you? Were you in Brooklyn?

TURANO:

Yes, Brooklyn.

LEVINE:

And that's where you said, Public School 136.

TURANO:

136. It's a — it's a — it's called now Dewey [PH] Junior High School.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay. So, now, getting back to Italy. Was the family religious over there?

TURANO:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Yeah?

TURANO:

Very religious.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any observances? Catholic observances in Italy?

TURANO:

Well, wait. I know that — in fact, I was — when I was small I used to be an altar boy and we used to go to church every Sunday. And I was very friendly with the priest and he used to give me a jug to go and get water. There was some spring water quite — about a half a mile away. I used to fill the jugs and bring them to his home and he used to give me a two-cent piece.

LEVINE:

Wow.

TURANO:

And I thought I was a rich [chuckles] man, own two cents.

LEVINE:

Right.

TURANO:

Well, I used to take that money and there used to be peddlers coming along in the plaza, you know. They used to bring oranges from this — different part of the country, old fruits, you know. And I used to use that money for that.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. And did you have any brothers and sisters in Italy that were born after you?

TURANO:

Yeah. Yes, one. One of my sisters named Mary, she was born in Italy and another — my younger sister was born in Brooklyn and that was in 1924 she was born.

LEVINE:

I see. I see.

TURANO:

My elder sister was born in 1908 and they're both down here now.

LEVINE:

Oh. Oh, uh-huh. Okay, now, talking about life in — in Italy, like, the little town that you were in, Delmonico, was there — like, were there stores? Were there — what was the town like?

TURANO:

It was a — a piazza where they — people used to come in and bring their wares. You know, they used to sell stuff. It was — one government store where — that sold salt and cigarettes and tobacco

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

TURANO:

That store was run by the government.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

And other stores — there were a lot of canteens, you know, where people went in to drink beer, wine, play cards for the wine and so on. Was no such a thing as markets here, like you're going by. They go to the butcher or — there's no such a thing as that.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

TURANO:

In order to go to a butcher you would have to go maybe five or six miles away to another town.

LEVINE:

And what were they using for transportation when you were a little boy?

TURANO:

Your feet and — and jackasses. [laughs]

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh.

TURANO:

No transportation then. I remember, of all the time I was in Italy, I think I saw two automobiles in my days there. I was there — I was eight — I was 10 years old; I saw two automobiles.

LEVINE:

And the church you went to, was it a big church?

TURANO:

We had — in my town, we had three churches, St. John's, St. Paul and St. Mary. Three churches. Yes, the people were very religious.

LEVINE:

Yeah, yeah. And how about food? What was your favorite dish when you were little?

TURANO:

Spaghetti, for one. Homemade. Homemade spaghetti because you — we had the flour and they used to roll, you know, make the dough and then roll it, roll it until it made it thin. Then you used to roll it again and chop it up and make — make a linguini, like.

LEVINE:

Wow. And let's see, what else do you remember about your life up until you were 10 years old and you left?

TURANO:

Well, I was a child. I used to run around, you know. After school you used to get together with other children.

LEVINE:

What kinds of things would you play? Do you remember what kinds —

TURANO:

Play — we'd play — we had — I had — we had no toys in those — little town in those days, no such a thing as toys. Ah, we used to go running around from farm to farm to steal cherries [chuckles] and eat them.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

TURANO:

Get up on the trees until the — [chuckles] until the farmer come with — and if he'd catch you, you were out of luck.

LEVINE:

[chuckles]

TURANO:

But they never caught us.

LEVINE:

What were you like as a 10-year-old when you were coming to this country? How would you describe yourself?

TURANO:

Well, when I came here and the first thing — well, I think we — we came into Port of New York at night. I saw all the skyline, all them lights. I was one that said, "Where am I here? In paradise? All these lights at night?" Because in the town that I was in there was — the electricity just must have came on, you know. They supplied the electricity and they had a little lamp, maybe a 15-watt lamp, a 20-watt lamp, because when I went back to Italy in 1958 I went to see my old — where I was born. That dog-gone store was still there and the lamp was still there, and they hadn't changed any — anything.

LEVINE:

Huh, right. So, now, what were the circumstances? Your father was in this country and your mother sent you to be with him?

TURANO:

Well, my mother came — came right after the First World War with my other sisters.

LEVINE:

I see. So did you know the person that your mother sent you to this country?

TURANO:

Yes, well, he was a friend. Yes.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay. And do you remember leaving?

TURANO:

Yeah, I remember leaving.

LEVINE:

How did you feel about coming?

TURANO:

[unclear], great, because my mother — my mother [chuckles] treated me rough.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

And I — I think my father's going to be better. She packed my bag and my — she must have wrote to my father, you know, so he must have sent money for — for passage. And when it was read — all ready she gave me my new clothes with short pants and no money. She gave 10 liras — 10 liras, which come out to about a penny and a half here now — to my — the fellow that brought me here. And he — he was supposed to buy something for me on the boat if I wanted some, but I never got anything. [chuckles]

LEVINE:

When you say your mother was rough, you mean she was, like, strict?

TURANO:

Strict, very strict. Yes.

LEVINE:

What was she strict about?

TURANO:

Well, she didn't want me going, running around and she wanted — she wanted me to stay in the house all the time with her. And I had to do odd jobs around the house, you know, such as take the garbage out — garbage had to go away — away to get it put away. And all these little things, you know. And she seen me going out with these other kids she thought I was — I'd get — turn bad. And she was very strict.

LEVINE:

I see. I see. But did you remember your father?

TURANO:

Yes. Do I remember — my — my father died in 1931 here.

LEVINE:

No, I mean, like when you were come to America.

TURANO:

Yeah, well, I remember him. Yes, I do remember him.

LEVINE:

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So let's see. So then you remember leaving?

TURANO:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Did you take anything in particular with you?

TURANO:

My clothes. [laughs]

LEVINE:

And new short pants, right?

TURANO:

Yeah, pair of underwears or so on, a little — little bit of a suitcase.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, and then the ship. You said the Credic [PH], Credic.

TURANO:

Credic, yeah.

LEVINE:

Credic. I'm trying to think. All right.

TURANO:

All these — all these [unclear] ships ended with a C, like the Celtic —

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

— Credic and others.

LEVINE:

Okay.

TURANO:

That's what I remember because when I came into the Port of New York there was another one there too besides the Credic.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay. What do you remember about the ship and the passage?

TURANO:

It was rough there. They used to give you food that when you're used to eating home food made — made home by your mother, it's not like it. I — we never — we never had that kind of soup they used to — it was dishwater. It was terrible, because I — I — I came — I came here on steerage, you know. There's first class, second class and steerage. I came steerage. Just they — they had these bunks, you know, three. One, two, three. You sleep.

LEVINE:

Was it real packed?

TURANO:

Yeah, it was packed. Like — the ship was packed, all right.

LEVINE:

Yeah. And so when you came, had — do you remember going to Ellis Island, your first impressions?

TURANO:

Yes. Yeah, we came to Ellis Island. It was sort of overnight. Then no beds. I didn't —

LEVINE:

Why — why did you stay in —

TURANO:

We got there — the following day my father came.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay.

TURANO:

My father came the following day. We went through different gates and the first thing you know you — I got on a ferry boat to go to Brooklyn from Ellis Island.

LEVINE:

Did — what was it like to see your father when you got there?

TURANO:

Well, I guess he was more surprised than I was.

LEVINE:

Why? Because he thought you —

TURANO:

Well, no, I was big. I was pretty big. At that time, I was pretty big because I — I really filled in when I was 15 — 15 to 16 years old I was 150 pounds.

LEVINE:

So you came — so you went to Ellis I — to Brooklyn by ferry?

TURANO:

Yes, by ferry.

LEVINE:

And what —

TURANO:

We landed on 39 th Street in Brooklyn. Used to be a 39 th Street Ferry.

LEVINE:

And — and what do you remember, like, your first few days or weeks?

TURANO:

I know that my father had a — my father had a little store.

LEVINE:

What did he sell?

TURANO:

Hat cleaning. He was cleaning hats and so on. And we slept in the back of the store. In back of the store there was a bathroom but no bath, just a ball in the sink, stove. And we had these beds that you fold, folding beds. And you wanted a bath, you had to go take a trolley and go to a public bathhouse.

LEVINE:

Now, was your father cooking for you?

TURANO:

Yeah, my father was a good cook.

LEVINE:

Is a good cook? And were there other people from Calabria or — or people from Italy that were, like, in your neighborhood that —

TURANO:

Yes, there was a lot of — a lot of — well, my aunt. I had — I had fam —

LEVINE:

Oh, she was there before your father?

TURANO:

Yes. Then my aunt and uncle lived in Pennsylvania and they came to Brooklyn. And my father took my uncle in as a partner. Then we used to share the apartment that my uncle rented.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

See, we didn't live behind the store no more.

LEVINE:

I see. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Then you started school.

TURANO:

I started school in — to that — to this here one. What is it? 131, I said?

LEVINE:

Is it 136?

TURANO:

Or 136. 136.

LEVINE:

So you started with the Catholic school and then —

TURANO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

— your father —

TURANO:

136. That school is on — between — it's a whole block from 40 th Street to 41 st Street, Fifth Av — Fourth Avenue, Brooklyn.

LEVINE:

Hmm. And what was it like, being with your father? Like [unclear]?

TURANO:

It was good. Well, my fa — you — I went to school. I'd come home from school and I'd stay in the store and do my homework, you know. People come in and they — years back, they used to have these — summertime, these Panama hats and straw hats. And they used to clean them with the acid and so on. That's the same store.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. And was your father as strict as your mother, did it turn out?

TURANO:

Well, my father was very strict. He used to say to me, "Look out. The bag is full, Louis." He meant he couldn't — couldn't stand no more, up to here. And they — he had a friend that worked in the bank as a manager. And he used to have this fellow. He'd teach me arithmetic.

LEVINE:

Oh, nice.

TURANO:

Mathematics. He used to teach me very good. He'd give me big examples. Of course, I — in Italy, I went to school there and we had a tough teacher too. They always figured — always, mathematics. They used to put them on a blackboard. So when I came here they put me in a 3B or 3A, whatever it was. I used to eat them up off the blackboard. You know, I could [unclear] addition, multiplication and so on. It was very easy for me. And I got through very fast. In fact, from the — from the third grade they stuck me into the sixth grade right away.

LEVINE:

Wow! Wow! So —

TURANO:

Because I learned how to speak English very fast because I was in the store with my father. You know, people would come in and I'd pick the English up fast.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, good, good. How about — how about your father? Was he speaking English?

TURANO:

Yes, a little bit. Broken English. My sorry is that I could not finish my education.

LEVINE:

Oh, why not?

TURANO:

Because when my mother came here then we need money to live.

LEVINE:

So you — so you stopped —

TURANO:

I just finished that school and that was it; that's all the education I had. I had no — no college education, no high school, none of that stuff.

LEVINE:

Yeah, and you were a good student, apparently, so, yeah. Now, what can you think of that your father wanted you to learn, wanted you to be like, wanted for you? What —

TURANO:

He wanted — he wanted to — to see that I — I do everything right, be good to other people, not to — not to be rude or anything like that, you know.

LEVINE:

How about your mother? Do you think she had certain ideas for you?

TURANO:

My mother, when she came here she said — never said nothing. She always — she was always with my aunts and other women in Italian — I got home. The only time, used to go home and eat and you go to sleep. Then maybe my father [unclear] visiting. No — there was no such thing as automobiles or anything. Of course, some ways you take the trolley or the elevator.

LEVINE:

Now, did you hang around with kids that were coming from all other places besides —

TURANO:

Yeah, yes.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

TURANO:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

TURANO:

I —

LEVINE:

It was a bunch of —

TURANO:

A bunch of kids, yes.

LEVINE:

From different places?

TURANO:

Yeah, well, there — I lived in a neighborhood was a mix — Irish, Jewish, Italians — whole mix, you know. And they used to play ball.

LEVINE:

And let's see. So when you dropped out of school what did you do to make money?

TURANO:

After school?

LEVINE:

Well, after you finished. Then you got a job?

TURANO:

Yes, I — I — I — there was a gentleman that used to come in my father's store. And one morning he didn't find me there, see. And he asked my father, "Where's the boy?" And says, "The boy's out looking for a job." And so he gave my father a ticket, says, "Let him come and visit me." At that time, he was running a pattern place. Years ago, women used to make their own clothes with the tissue paper patterns. And he ran the Peerless [PH] Pattern Company. And the Home — the Home Pattern Company. They were in the Bush buildings in Brooklyn. And I went to see him and he gave me a job as a model boy. A model boy consisted — doing this kind of work where the — when they — the cutter — the — the — the designer made a pattern in heavy, thick cardboard. Now, on the pattern, maybe there's 10 or 12 pieces to make a dress or a — so on. Well, they — this pattern will go to the cutters. They have about an inch — an inch thick of tissue paper. They put the pattern on the — on the tissue paper. And they used to cut with a knife and make the pattern. And the girls would separate these patterns, you know, and put them in envelopes and sell them by mail. So when they were finished with that pattern they used to put it together. And I was like [unclear] file it. I used to go and file it where it belonged. And I did that. I did that for awhile. Then I told — I told this gentleman — I says, "Look, this is not for me. I want to learn something. I'm not learning nothing." So he put me in the pressroom learning printing.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

And I worked in the — in that print shop until 1924. I worked there about seven years. I worked —

LEVINE:

Setting type?

TURANO:

No.

LEVINE:

No.

TURANO:

I was in these machines where they used to make a pattern with these plates and all these [unclear]. You see like these magazine presses? Or — well, used to — they used to clean the fountains, take the [unclear] out and so on. I worked there until 1924, '25. Then I — I was getting big and I used to hang around the billiard room, and the first thing you know I accumulated a few dollars. And I got in partnership with a fellow at the billiard room.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

Then — then I sell that. I sell it to —

LEVINE:

Did you stay in it for awhile?

TURANO:

Well, I had it until 1928. Well, in 1928, with the partner I had, we opened bowling alleys in New York. We opened bowling alleys in New York for — in 1928. We stood in [unclear] places till 1934. In 1934 we picked up another place and now we have two bowling alleys. We sold those two bowling alleys and we opened the largest bowling alley in the — in the Bronx. And we call that the Paradise Recreation Center right opposite Lower's [PH] Paradise. Lower's Paradise was a show — showplace where this — this here movie house showed — showed vaudeville and movies. And no — it was so beautiful that when you went in and sat down you thought you was outside. The ceiling was made by Italian artists. You — you thought you were outside in — with the stars rolling around and beautiful. And I stood there until 1959.

LEVINE:

Oh. So how — [phone rings] — whoops —

TURANO:

Excuse me. [tape off/on]

LEVINE:

We're resuming here. Okay.

TURANO:

In 1959, I sold my business and I didn't do nothing. I — I started to invest money.

LEVINE:

In the stock market?

TURANO:

No — yes, some in the stock market but very little in the stock — in bonds. Municipal bonds. And I accumulated a little bit of money and in 1976 — '76 — I mean, 1958 we went to — 1976, my wife says, "Let's take a vacation." And we come down here. We come down here and I saw this house was just being built.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

And I — I bought this house and I'm here ever since.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Now — so, the Depression, how did the Depression affect you, if it did, at all?

TURANO:

It did not affect me at all because during the Depression people had no jobs. Those that had a few dollars — I was in the sporting business, bowling and billiards. You had a bar there too. And people didn't go out like they go on vacation. So, one, they stood home and bowling was very reasonable and I had a lot of clubs bowling in my place. At one time, I had 66 five-man teams bowling in my bowling alley. I had 24 lanes there, okay. And that was — New York Telephone Company was enough for me to — but then I had — I — during the weekends I always had a wedding list. I ran a beautiful, clean place until 1959 that I had to sell it. The landlord would not renew my lease. I was there for 14 or 15 years and that was the end of it.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. How did you meet your wife?

TURANO:

I met my wife in her sister's house. We [chuckles] — my — my — my sister-in-law's husband wanted to go out for pizza one night. So we went to this pizza place and he was closed. And he says to me, "Well." He says, "We can't have pizzas but — but we can have pigs' feet in vinegar," you know.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

TURANO:

And we went to his house and we — while we were eating, she came in. I don't know where she came from. And she must have been in someplace where — which she didn't like or something, because she come in; she was very furious. There was one piece leftover that she says, "Nobody wants this piece?" The last piece, so she took it and went away. And I got talking to her. I made an appointment to take her out. I took her to a dance. From there on, we got married in 19 — in 1937. In 1937, I — we married.

LEVINE:

Who — and what's her name?

TURANO:

Her name was Angelina.

LEVINE:

Angelina. And her maiden name?

TURANO:

Long. Maiden name was long, Castrogianni — C-A-S-T-R-O-G-I-A-N-N-I.

LEVINE:

And was she — and did she come over as well or was her [unclear]?

TURANO:

No, she was born in New York City. She is — she's — she was a high school graduate.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And did you have children?

TURANO:

Three of them — four of them. Three boys and a girl. They're all living.

LEVINE:

Good. And let's see. When you look back on it — when you look back on coming here as a 10-year-old and living out your whole life here, how do you think about it? How do you think about yourself as far as being American, being Italian?

TURANO:

This is a paradise here; you compare it to the Old Country, you know. There you had nothing to do. All you did was play — play ball with the other kids. No — no entertainment. The only entertainment was in church when the priests went to have a feast or something. That's about all in the town that I come from.

LEVINE:

Did your — did your mother and father have the idea that you should become Americanized or did they sort of want you to keep —

TURANO:

No —

LEVINE:

— your Italian roots?

TURANO:

We never discussed it because my father became a citizen in 1916. At the time — at the time, there was a law in this country that any children under 18 or 21, whatever it was — 16 — they automatically become citizen. Therefore, I became a citizen with my father's papers. But then I was a witness for my cousin. He — he wanted to become a citizen and the clerk that took care of them said to me, "You should get your own citizen papers, because if you want to leave the country you need a passport." So he is says, "All you have to do is file these papers." See, I gave him $5 to file the papers. A couple of months later they called me; I went and got my citizen papers.

LEVINE:

And what do you feel most proud of that you've done in your life? What makes you feel satisfied?

TURANO:

I'm very proud of my children because I worked hard. The way I worked they says, "God never gives me [unclear] children. They're not going to work as hard as I did." So I put all my children through college. My first boy went to college and he put all the telephones in the Yankee Stadium when they renovated. He was a — he's retired. My second boy — he became a chemical engineer. He worked for Firestone Tire Company. Then he switched over to Philip Morris. He's got a chem — a master's degree in chem — chemical engineering. And he's retired. My third boy, he's got a business administration, graduated college in New York City with a — with a master's degree. In fact, he's an accountant. He does accountant work for me.

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

My daughter married a stockbroker from New York and she lives [unclear] the canal here. And I'm proud of my children and I don't expect anything from my children but — [END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A] [BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE B]

TURANO:

— an allowance and that was it. If you spend it in one day you don't get none until next week, because I lived in a very nice neighborhood in — in the Bronx. And there was all businessmen and professional people. And they were — they were very friendly with kids but their fathers were very professionals. Now, there were the kids — in fact, one of my kids today is in — is in North Carolina. He's — he's playing golf with one of these kids' —

LEVINE:

Oh.

TURANO:

— friends.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

TURANO:

And they — their father was a dentist and they — "Dad," he says, "You only give us $10 allowance a week." He says, "Look, the Vorland kids get 20." I says, "Yeah, the Vorland kids' father, he pulls a tooth and he gets 10 to $20. God, he has to — to make $20 the people have to bowl 40 games. So I kept them down. I didn't — I didn't spoil them. And they're — they all turned out good. Thank God for that.

LEVINE:

Yeah, yeah. Okay, is there anything else? When you think of yourself, do you think of yourself as American, Italian, a combination? How do you think about it?

TURANO:

Well, first — first, American; then Italian because my life is here, was here. I left Italy, was 10 years old.

LEVINE:

So did you visit Ellis Island? Is that how —

TURANO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

— this interview came about?

TURANO:

In fact, my name is on one of those plaques there.

LEVINE:

[unclear].

TURANO:

Yeah. I — I — see the plaque over there?

LEVINE:

All right, I do. Yeah. And how was it for you to see Ellis Island?

TURANO:

Oh, it was different. Oh, it was different. [chuckles]

LEVINE:

Yeah? It didn't look the way you remembered? Yeah.

TURANO:

I remember everybody here with bundles, you know, and so on. And you visit there, everybody's dressed up and it's a holiday.

LEVINE:

Okay, well, I want to thank you so much.

TURANO:

You're welcome.

LEVINE:

Very interesting interview. And this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service, and I've been speaking with Louis Turano. And we are signing off. [END OF INTERVIEW]