SIGRIST:

Good afternoon. This is Paul Sigrist with the National Park Service. Today is Monday, September 29 th , 1997. I'm in South River, New Jersey and I'm here with Mrs. Irene Kopor Buga. Mrs. Buga was born in the United States. She returned to Czechoslovakia with her family sometime around 1921. She was there for three years and then the family came back to America in the very beginning, January of 1924, and she was 10 years old. She was turning 11 that April in 1924. Anyway, Mrs. Buga, thank you for letting me come out.

BUGA:

[chuckles]

SIGRIST:

Can we begin by you giving me your birth date?

BUGA:

I was born April the 5 th , 1913.

SIGRIST:

And where were you born in New York?

BUGA:

South River, New Jersey. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

South River, New Jersey, right where we are.

BUGA:

Didn't get very far.

SIGRIST:

Do you know anything about the day you were born? Did anyone ever tell you a story about the day you were born?

BUGA:

No.

SIGRIST:

Your mother, maybe, or —

BUGA:

No, I don't think there was anything special about it. It just —

SIGRIST:

Can you tell me a little bit about why your parents were here in South River?

BUGA:

Well, I can tell you that. It goes back to my grandparents were apparently fairly well off where they lived in a town called Madubetig [PH].

SIGRIST:

Is that in Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Well, it was Hungary at — at that time. And my grandfather had a reaper combine that they used throughout this — the village to do the reaping of the wheat because it — naturally, it was a farming village. He was also an insurance agent so they apparently were fairly well off. And then an uncle had the state store but, unfortunately, he was very, I guess, gullible because he let people have too much credit. And that's how my mother came over here because she came here to raise money to get him out hock. You know, he — I guess, sort of bankruptcy or whatever it was. You know, the money was needed so she came here and then my father followed. [chuckles] Apparently, they knew each other but they were married here, 1910. I had a s — a sister that was born in 1911. Now, by that time, my mother was raring to get back. She had her mother, her father, two sisters and — no, one sister and two brothers there. But my father did not want to go because his parents were dead. He — they died when he was a youngster. So my mother and my aunt — apparently, the two girls had come here at the same time — were ready to go back with two young infants without the men. Now, my aunt's husband had a store in town so I guess he wasn't interested in leaving the business. They went to Europe. My mother — I remember her telling me that, you know, people felt sorry for them, each one lugging a baby and then carrying their luggage and everything. And she said they found a lot of very helpful people that helped them. Well, they went to Europe, both of them. And in a very short while (I don't know how long of a time but it must have been a very short while), both children died and are buried in Europe in the town there. Now, they were very much afraid to come back. You know, coming back without the children but anyway, they came back. So they must have come back in 1912. This must have happened around 1912 because I was born in 1913 at the beginning of the year. And then two years later my father had moved over to Brooklyn because jobs, I guess, around here were somewhat at — at a — oh, it was a problem anyway. And my sister was born there in the Greenpoint section of Brooklyn. So anyway, then the war came along and I — my mother, of course, had to stay put but I'm sure that she was anxious to get back again. So I guess as soon as the war was over, as soon as she could talk my father into it — my father was not a citizen — it was a plan to stay there, apparently because they packed up everything that they had, including a sewing machine. And I remember, I could still see that somebody professionally had to crate it because it was in a big, wooden crate, which somewhere along the line got lost. And I don't know whether they ever did catch up with it. But they took everything that they could with them with the idea, I'm sure, that my mother, anyway, planned to stay there. Well, after about a year — by this time, of course, this section was Czechoslovakia. After a year, suddenly there was a mobilization. My father was not a citizen of the United States. He, apparently, I think was still a — a Hungarian citizen but, as far as it was concerned, he would have been called up. And I don't know who arranged it but he left in a — very much of a hurry during the night. I remember all — all of a sudden (we had somebody working there), he had him get the horses ready and drive him to wherever he was. He left very, very suddenly. That left us with my mother. My sister was down with scarlet fever so we couldn't come. Now, it took us two more years to get back because my mother was not a citizen either. My father was not a citizen so the quota was in and it took him a long, long time. Finally, somebody worked out that he — that she could come in as a guardian of — of two American citizens. And that's how we managed to come back after the two years, traveling alone.

SIGRIST:

Wow.

BUGA:

It's a [chuckles] long story, yes.

SIGRIST:

Wow.

BUGA:

But it was my mother. My father — my father did not want to go to Europe because he didn't feel that we really had — he did have one brother but he was here at the time in America. He did go back and he did stay in the village there. But —

SIGRIST:

A question I want to ask you —

BUGA:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

— is the beginning of all that —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

What did the two babies die of?

BUGA:

I don't really know. I guess it might be just change of food or whatever. I don't — I don't know, fate. I don't think they knew. They were just young women, you know, and they really didn't know, and that probably just lack of sanitation in — in the village or whatever it was. But anyway, both — one was a boy and one was a girl and both of them are buried there in — when we went to Europe there, I remember going out to the cemetery to find the — to the little stone that they had there.

SIGRIST:

Tell me what your father's name was.

BUGA:

Well, in Hungarian, it was Sandor.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell —

BUGA:

S-A — S-A-N-D-O-R. But translated to Alex.

SIGRIST:

So is [unclear] —

BUGA:

But in — in America, it was Alex Kopor. That's right.

SIGRIST:

You mentioned his parents had died when he was —

BUGA:

Yes, died wh —

SIGRIST:

What else do you know about his background and his growing up in Europe?

BUGA:

Very little, because as I said, I think his mother — one of them (I don't recall which one), the mother or the father was struck by lightening when my father was about four years old. And the other one died when my father was about 16. And they had considerable land there too and, somehow or other, you know, the uncles and all managed to take a l — or take over the land, I guess, because he did — there was something that he did have, but not all that he had, and I don't know how he was raised. I guess just by — he never spoke about his grandparents so I don't know. He must have had grandparents that took care of him.

SIGRIST:

What about — what — what profession did he have in Europe?

BUGA:

Oh, he was a young man so he didn't have — really have any profession. [chuckles] I think he must have been, what — he — he was — I think he was about 20 when he came over here, something like that. Well, farming. I mean, everybody was a farmer in town as far as I know in that thing. Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Was he from the same town that —

BUGA:

He was from the same town, yes. Not too far away from where we lived.

SIGRIST:

Do you know how your parents knew each other or if — how they met?

BUGA:

They must — they met, probably, through the church because there was only one church in town. It was a Reform church. So most likely, they're — although, you know, in — in Europe, they had, well, not quilting bees but spinning bees and — and weaving bees and all that. And the girls used to, well, get together at somebody's house where they would spin the flax. And then the boys, of course, you know, used to come and — and visit and sing songs and things like that. So they probably met along that line or maybe at one of the dances. I don't know. They never really talked about it. I guess we didn't ask too many questions in that thing there. But my mother always used to kid that he came af — he came after her.

SIGRIST:

What was your father's personality like?

BUGA:

My father, after I realize now, was an outstanding man because, you know, he — my mother had a — well, she must have had rheumatic fever when she was a youngster. Of course, people in those days did not know rheumatic fever. But it left her as a sort of a semi-invalid, although she worked all her life until —

SIGRIST:

Meaning what, by semi-invalid? What —

BUGA:

Well, it — it — she'd have attacks, you know, where — well, she — f — for instance, she had — she had — where she would hemorrhage, you know. And there were ti — I know when she said that — mentioned something about my — when I was born, she did say that at that time, she couldn't even hold me. She was having problems with her hands and would — whatever problems she had she couldn't even hold me, as a baby. And so she had a number of different problems that she had along the line. And after a while, of course, she had a lot of heart problems and all that. She had a — a leaky heart and a lot of other things too that — so anyway, she didn't — she didn't go with us on trips and all. But my father used to take us to New York, to Battery Park, to the Bronx Zoo. Now, this is back, way, way back. He would take us to — I guess to Perth — or South Amboy, Perth Amboy, take the Tottenville [PH] over to Tottenville. There used to be a train that went out to the St. George's Ferry. Then we'd go to Battery Park. We'd go to Bronx Zoo. We used to go to Central — used to take us all over. And even when I — during the Depression, I'll tell you, he would go all over to get things for my mother. He'd go to every store. If she wanted grapes — and, you know, grapes weren't that common in those days — he would go through the town. At one time, I remember that my mother would — my mother was the frugal one. My mother was a careful one. He bought my mother a beautiful green suit with fur and all else. She almost threw him out with it, you know, because, why did he spend the money, you know, and all this and that. But he also — at this time, I used to do a lot of drawing and all this and that when I was, like, a freshman in high school — oh, the eighth grade and all that. And he bought me this, which I still have, a watercolor paint — quite a nice little watercolor paint. So he was very much family oriented as far as that goes. Now, you know, if I look back, I realize, you know, how much he thought of the family. And my father had a very bad case of — of cancer. He was at Sloan Kettering for quite a while. And he did have a — like, part of his face was removed. And he told us that he would have committed suicide if it weren't that he respected the family, because, you know, people weren't that kind to him about it. So he was a very dedicated man.

SIGRIST:

Weren't that kind to him, meaning because [unclear] —

BUGA:

When — yes. Yes, they said, "What did they do to you?" You know, and they didn't realize that what they did was save his life. And he didn't — he didn't — really didn't die of that. He lived quite a number of years after that. But he spent quite — quite a lot of time at Sloan Kettering.

SIGRIST:

Talk to me a little bit about his — his working life here in the United States.

BUGA:

Well, i — it — it was mainly — you know, South River area was the brick — big brick producing town. So he worked — and I also worked — I don't know what he did with a clay — a clay — a — Grossman's [PH] — Cross — Crossman's [PH], I think it was, a clay bank in, well, I guess it's part of — it was part of Serrville [PH]. There, he worked at the clay bank place there. I don't know what he did at the clay bank place there — I'll tell you the truth — for a long, long time. And then he worked at, ah, the brick places, that — different places as they opened and closed, because after a while, they began to phase out that part, although that was a big industry back here in South River at that time.

SIGRIST:

This whole area —

BUGA:

This whole area, yes, with the [unclear] was, yes, in that thing. So practically all the men were involved in that — that kind of a business.

SIGRIST:

What was your father's educational background?

BUGA:

Well, whatever he had in — in Europe. I don't know exactly. Probably not that much. I'm sure he didn't go to high school or anything like that.

SIGRIST:

[unclear] read and write —

BUGA:

Oh, yes, he did. He — he had beautiful handwriting, even when he died, at, you know, around 85. Yes, he did and he was the treasurer of quite a few of the lodges and — and secretary sometimes. No, my father wrote beautifully. He had very nice handwriting. And as I said, he used to be the treasurer, which of course we — made me be a very responsible person, because he worked. And the money that they collected and, you know, it was [unclear] the other treas — once a month, actually. When they had the lodge meetings, they collected money. I had to take that money with me to school and it was like hundreds of dollars, actually, and then deposited at noontime in the bank. The teachers weren't that happy about it. In fact, at one time, I had a — a thousand-dollar check to cash and when I went down to the ban — it was somebody's death benefit. I don't know why I had to cash it. It wasn't anybody in our family, and had the bank — they — they called the bank president and all, you know, that am I sure that, you know, I'm [chuckles] responsible and all. But they did give me the money anyway, as far as that went, so I had a lot of responsibility as a child, you know, from a very young age, in fact.

SIGRIST:

Were there certain aspects of your father's personality that you think of as being very Old World, in a way? Especially when you were growing up.

BUGA:

No. You know, they never — never said I can't do this or that or anything like that. They were very trusting, both of them. I mean, I was never told not to smoke, not to drink, not to do — which I didn't do anyway, [chuckles] to my own sake. But they — they never restricted and they were very interested that I go to school, even though —

SIGRIST:

Well, you mentioned, of course, that your father was very family oriented.

BUGA:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Well, what — what other things did he enjoy doing for his own pleasure outside of work or being with the family? Did he have hobbies or certain things —

BUGA:

Mmm —

SIGRIST:

— he very much enjoyed doing for himself?

BUGA:

Well, in those days, you know, you worked so many hours. He worked with the church. At one time, he was the — the — the [unclear]. He was the president of the — of the [unclear] in the church, which was right next to our house where we used to live, about two blocks down from here.

SIGRIST:

And is this a Reformed church also?

BUGA:

Reformed church, yes.

SIGRIST:

It was a Protestant denomination?

BUGA:

It's a first — its name has been ch — it was a Hungarian English at that time. But quite a number of years ago, the Hungarian has been dropped and it's just English. We only have English services. Its name was cha — it used to be called the Hungarian Reformed Church. But the name was changed to the First Reformed Church of South River. It's a Reformed Church. It belongs to the Dutch Reformed [unclear].

SIGRIST:

I see. Let's talk a little bit about your mother. What was her name?

BUGA:

My mother's name was Juliana [PH] C-S-E-L-L-E. Cselle.

SIGRIST:

And what do you know about her growing up? You know a little bit. You've told us a little bit.

BUGA:

Well, while she was in Europe, I remember that since they had about, oh, I guess five children, she more or less had to help take care of the children while she was —

SIGRIST:

There were five in her family —

BUGA:

In her family, yes. There was — well, one died. There too, one died, a young girl. And they had originally three girls and two boys, and then the one girl died. And now, wait a minute. They had four girls. I just remembered, my three aunts, Ida, Elizabeth and — and eventually, Ida also came over here to America. Her husband had been here for a long, long time before that.

SIGRIST:

What kinds of things did your mother tell about her childhood and —

BUGA:

Well, you know, as I said again, they had to do a lot of work around there, weaving and embroidering and, of course, the housework, the garden work, working out in the fields and things — I remember she said at one time there was a — a big fire someplace. I don't know whether — near them, anyway. I don't think it was in their house, but very close to them and all. And she said that she grabbed a — a drawer from something. And she doesn't even know what was in the drawer that she was trying to save. But she dried that out in the — trying to save it, whatever it was. And she wondered — she said, "Why in the world did I do that?" And she doesn't even remember really what was — it was nothing of value. That was the funny part of it, that thing there. So they were pretty well occupied with household things. Did — they did an awful lot of weaving, spinning, then weaving.

SIGRIST:

Are these things that you remember your mother doing once you come into the picture too when you were growing up?

BUGA:

Well, she was do — well, I was doing it also. By the time I came back here, I had all kinds of embroidery. I was doing Italian hem — hem stitching and —

SIGRIST:

You'd been taught in Czechoslovakia —

BUGA:

I wasn't really taught.

SIGRIST:

But when you were doing that —

BUGA:

I just picked it up on myself. That's right.

SIGRIST:

Oh, good. Well, we'll talk about that when we get —

BUGA:

And crocheting. All — all kinds of stitches of crocheting and everything. By the time I came back here to — at — at the age of 11, I had done all those things. That was all part of things that were done.

SIGRIST:

Tell me about your mother's personality. What were some of her character traits?

BUGA:

She was a very quiet person and, as I said, she trusted us. She was very quiet. I really can't say — very kind and very, very quiet. Very quiet. Very hardworking because my father worked and she also worked. She worked in the garment industries until sh — eventually, she wasn't able to do it.

SIGRIST:

Tell me the story [clears throat] again about why she came to America. S — she had a brother who got into debt.

BUGA:

But the — well, he trusted people and they didn't pay up. And she — I don't know why she felt — and the two girls came. I don't know whether both had that same motive. But my mother did anyway, that they should come here to raise money to take back to get him out of whatever they could get him out of; I don't know.

SIGRIST:

Who was the other sister who went with her to America? You said the two girls.

BUGA:

Elizabeth.

SIGRIST:

Elizabeth.

BUGA:

Elizabeth.

SIGRIST:

Juliana and Elizabeth.

BUGA:

Elizabeth came here, yeah. And they're the one —

SIGRIST:

With the intention of making money.

BUGA:

Money. And that's right.

SIGRIST:

Wh —

BUGA:

And that's why my mother — that's why, I guess, she kept wanting to go back, because her f — whole intention at that time was to get the money to help out her brother. She felt obligated; I don't know why.

SIGRIST:

And never had any intention really of staying.

BUGA:

No, no. That's the reason that right after the war — as soon as the war was over, as soon as she could talk my father into it, which probably took a little time, that's when they packed up and, you know, went again.

SIGRIST:

When she first came to America, what year was that?

BUGA:

1910, I — no, she was married in 1910.

SIGRIST:

Married in 19 —

BUGA:

So, something — must have been, like, 1909 or something like that.

SIGRIST:

Where did she go to live in at that time?

BUGA:

Well, she — you know, back in those days, they had these — everybody had the — had a — a house that was like a boardinghouse. So they went to somebody's house that probably had oodles of people living in it. Because I remember that when we were living here too at one time, we had a lot of boarders, a lot of men, single men. A lot of them had wives in Europe. That used to be quite a common thing, that the men came here. The wives were in Europe. Some never got back. Some had their wives brought here. Some returned. So she went to one of the — somebody's house that had a lot of women living there. And I don't — I don't know exactly who it was.

SIGRIST:

And do you remember —

BUGA:

But —

SIGRIST:

— what kind of work she got when she first came?

BUGA:

Well, she must have gone to the — you know, South River has been a sewing factory, so that was about the only kind of work that was here. And I'm sure that she went — oh, no, no, no. Excuse me. The cigar factory. It was a cigar factory in South River, a big cigar factory. And that's where the women worked at the beginning. That's where she went to. I forgot about that already.

SIGRIST:

And did Elizabeth —

BUGA:

Elizabeth, too, must have gone, yes, because all the wo — I — I guess that was the only work. I don't think the garment industry was that strong at that time. Yeah. It was the cigar factory down at the other end of town —

SIGRIST:

Were there other relatives or other people from that area who had settled [unclear] South River?

BUGA:

I — there were people. I don't know whether they came. There were others that were, like, cousins. Now, I — they came about the same time. I don't know whether they came together but it was about the same time that they came here. [unclear] —

SIGRIST:

I'm just wondering why here? Why —

BUGA:

— in that thing.

SIGRIST:

— did they choose this area?

BUGA:

Well, I don't know either. I'll tell you the truth. I wonder. I ask people, "Why did they" — or, "How did they get to South River?" lots of times. And I think that there were people from their town or village that they must have heard were here about the same time, not too many years before —

SIGRIST:

So there was a small community [unclear] —

BUGA:

There were — there were some people at that time, yes.

SIGRIST:

The boardinghouses that you're talking about —

BUGA:

They weren't called boardinghouses. They —

SIGRIST:

Well, I realize but —

BUGA:

Yeah, they were —

SIGRIST:

Were they — were they pretty much all the same nationality of people [unclear]?

BUGA:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. They — the ones that they were concerned with were Hungarians. This section back through there was the Hungarian section.

SIGRIST:

Of South —

BUGA:

Of South River. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

BUGA:

Yeah, all through there. It is not that anymore. And then the —

SIGRIST:

But when — when — you're sort of pointing [unclear].

BUGA:

Past where you came in —

SIGRIST:

Where the pond was.

BUGA:

— where the pond was, on the other side of it.

SIGRIST:

I see.

BUGA:

All through there, it was the Hungarian section. A — practically all Hungarian people lived in that section down — all the way down st — from the pond down to the river. It was all Hungarian. It is not — it's very much different now th —

SIGRIST:

What were some of the other ethnic groups in the 1920s, say that — that made up South River in — when you were growing up here?

BUGA:

Russian, Polish. In fact, the other end of the town — they say that there's a lot of German population here. I did not know that. But Russian and Polish. They used to call the other end of the town the Russian Alley [chuckles] for the longest time. And that was the tow — the part of the town that wasn't supposed — you know, it — on the other side of the railroad track and all that. And I very seldom — I didn't know anything about that part of the town very much; I'll tell you the truth because we more or less stuck to this part of the town and —

SIGRIST:

Do you know if the industries in town were sort of segregated by nationality? For instance, all — only Hungarians were working in —

BUGA:

Mmm, I don't think so.

SIGRIST:

— the cigar factory —

BUGA:

No, I don't think so.

SIGRIST:

So in the workplace —

BUGA:

They were in the workplace. Everybody — yes, everybody — I'm sure that it was just — I guess about that time that was about the only industry at that time. But very shortly after that, the garment industry came in and that was a very big thing. Now, it's gone. I don't think — I don't know if there's one town — one place left here now that does anything.

SIGRIST:

Now, you said that your father sort of pursued your mother to America.

BUGA:

Ri — well, that was — that — she said that all the time.

SIGRIST:

That's what she said. [laughs]

BUGA:

He always said, no, it wasn't true but, you know, she said that that —

SIGRIST:

Do you know any of the specifics of that, like how — how long after your father had a — how long after your mother had gotten here that your father came over [unclear] details?

BUGA:

Very soon. Very soon. Oh, as I said, they were married in 1910 so it had to be very soon.

SIGRIST:

And married here in South River.

BUGA:

Married in — yes, in South River in —

SIGRIST:

At the Hungarian church?

BUGA:

At the Hungarian Reformed Church in that [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Well, and you came along in 1913.

BUGA:

That was —

SIGRIST:

What are your early memories of — of growing up here?

BUGA:

South River. Well —

SIGRIST:

What's your earliest memory?

BUGA:

My earliest memories. Well my — one of my earliest memories is I had a couple of teeth knocked out because I was — somebody — a little boy was pulling me in — in the snow on a sled. And I think I was, like, four years old and he pulled me into a — in the garden where there was a — a frozen something, and I went over and had my teeth knocked out. And here I am. My mother was working and I have a — well, a relative more o — more on my aunt's side, who's now living in Kalamazoo. He was a young man at that time and he dragged me down to my mother, but my mother was working. And then he dragged me to a — a dentist or something [chuckles] with a bleeding mouth and everything all over. Thi — and I think I was, like, maybe three years old or something along that line. Of course, I'll tell you, when I was — when we lived in Brooklyn, I told you my sister was born in Brooklyn. Well, my aunt —

SIGRIST:

How long did you live in South River before you went to Brooklyn?

BUGA:

Well, she was born — my sister was born in 1915 so —

SIGRIST:

So you weren't here very long then, a couple years.

BUGA:

No, a couple of years, about five years. And this — she was born in July, 1915. And she was born in Brooklyn and my other aunt, my Aunt Elizabeth had a daughter of — just about the same time that I was born so we were really very close. But they lived in South River. And of course, every once in a while they would come to visit us. And I always wanted to go visit South River but my mother had this young baby, so she said, "Yeah, we'll go. We'll go. We'll go." Well, I decided then, 'I'm going to go.' And I guess we were not too far from where the ferry or whatever it was that we had to take. I — there was a ferry, I guess, at that time that we had to take. So I decided to take off on my own. Now, my sister was just born so I couldn't have been any more than two or two and a half. I did go and, of course, when my mother discovered I was missing, she got panicky. She threw my sister down on the bed and went out looking for me. And eventually, I guess she met up with a policeman who saw a frantic woman. And he said, well, they had just picked up a little girl. She was down at the police station. [chuckles] And sure enough, she says I was sitting there happily and all this, not even being concerned. And I was getting very annoyed. She said that they won't bring me. So that was the first time. The second time, my father said, "I am really going to give it to her if she ever goes away again." Well, sure enough, I went away again. But this time, he caught up with me. But he didn't do — he said he just was happy to have me. He grabbed me up in all this and that. So I think that was the end of my traveling. Soon after that, I think they came back to South River. So — [END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A] [BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE B]

BUGA:

Well, I —

SIGRIST:

So how long did they stay in Brooklyn then?

BUGA:

Well, it couldn't have been very long, maybe a year or so.

SIGRIST:

And — and —

BUGA:

But —

SIGRIST:

— tell me why again they went up to Brooklyn.

BUGA:

He was wor — work. I don't know how they got to Brooklyn, in some kind of a metal factory, because he had an injury at that time. I don't know what they were doing. They were melting ores of some type and it went down somehow and he got his leg all burnt, so which he suffered for the rest of his life, really —

SIGRIST:

Ores, like iron ore —

BUGA:

— because of it. Ore, iron or whatever it was. And probably not iron ore. Might — might have been copper or something else. And that's the reason they went there because work was available there in — in South River for some reason at that time. That already was — I don't know why they were losing out on — I guess the clay was giving out or something along the line there.

SIGRIST:

I suppose that's —

BIGA:

And that's what —

SIGRIST:

— all during the period of World War I too.

BUGA:

— in that thing — in that thing, yeah.

SIGRIST:

On —

BIGA:

So — well, this is — this was just before the war and they were back here before the war so they could — maybe a year — a year or two, maybe. I don't — I don't think it was really two years, even.

SIGRIST:

Right. Well, we didn't get into the war till 1917.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

So, yeah. Do you remember the birth of your sister or anything about the circumstances [unclear]?

BUGA:

No, I don't remember; I'll tell you the truth —

SIGRIST:

You were quite young. I realize that.

BUGA:

— in that thing — in that thing. Well, yeah, I was not quite two years old.

SIGRIST:

Right, yeah.

BUGA:

In that thing.

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me again — you did a little bit at the beginning — about why the family went back. Why did your mother want to go back?

BUGA:

I guess it was just she liked her family and —

SIGRIST:

Had there been communication back and forth?

BUGA:

Oh, yes. It — not only communication but, you know, back in those days, they all put their money into the postal thing that had to do with Europe. And all that money was lost, of course, during the war — after the war —

SIGRIST:

Can you describe what that is?

BUGA:

Well, I don't — it was money that they — it was through the post office that — but it went to Europe. It was some kind of a postal deposit, the international something that sent the money to Europe —

SIGRIST:

I see. Someone in America —

BUGA:

Because I found some — a — instead of putting money into the de — depositing it over here, their savings was going into this international thing that was going to Hungary at that time. But all that money, because I found s — papers, some papers that when my sister's house was sold here, about — I didn't understand what it meant. I mean, what the amount — the amounts that were involved there. But anyway, all that was apparently lost because they never got anything back because after the war, you know, the countries are pretty bankrupt, so they didn't — they couldn't retrieve any of that money. But they all felt this nationalistic kind of thing, that they have to put their money into Europe, not over here. [chuckles] They were still very much attached to their country. That was the thing.

SIGRIST:

Had you — do you know, had there been any correspondence between the families —

BUGA:

There was —

SIGRIST:

— during the First World War?

BUGA:

Oh, I don't know about the f — the — during the war, how much correspondence there was. There was always a lot of correspondence but I don't know about, you know, how much there was during the war itself. But if they could get letters through, they did, whatever, because there was a lot of correspondence.

SIGRIST:

And you — you think that your mother felt the need to — to [unclear] —

BUGA:

My mother — I don't know — I guess was very much attached to her mother and she just wanted to go there. That was it [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Had you been put into school in America before you went to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Oh, yes.

SIGRIST:

Yeah? Could you talk a little bit about going to American school?

BUGA:

Well, I — let's see. Yes. I went to school — in fact, at a school down — there's a school there now. You know, South River has a new school now; $18 million so up goes our taxes again. And that means three — three buildings here are now being abandoned. I don't know what they're going to do with it. They have three or f — well, one, they've already closed right near the pond.

SIGRIST:

Talk about school when you went.

BUGA:

In that sa —

SIGRIST:

When [unclear] —

BUGA:

Well, that's what I wanted to say, that I went to school in the kindergarten and first grade, or my lower grades must have been all in the — this school that is now the middle school. And of course, it was all very — well, very basic, let's put it that way, back in those days. One thing I remember is that a — across the street was a butcher shop and they had a great big scale. And that's where we went. They'd march us — lined us up, march us once a month to weigh us on that scale. [chuckles] Well, no — they didn't have any nurses and — and scales in the school the way they do, the elaborate systems that they have now. And, well, I — I don't remember what else I [unclear] —

SIGRIST:

Well, what — what language did you speak at home?

BUGA:

Hungarian.

SIGRIST:

So did you [unclear]?

BUGA:

But — but we spoke English but no —

SIGRIST:

Probably went to school.

BUGA:

No. We didn't because we learned English very early. I don't know. I guess all the kids spoke English so — I mean, we spoke Hungarian at home. But in school it was English and we all knew English. But when I came back from Europe, I — neither one of us knew one word in English because in Europe we were learning Hungarian and Russian. I nev —

SIGRIST:

We'll talk about that when we —

BUGA:

And that thing, yeah.

SIGRIST:

— get you over there. Did — from the time that your parents first got to America, 1909, about —

BUGA:

Uh-hmm.

SIGRIST:

— did they make any attempt to learn English at that time?

BUGA:

Well, they never — they learned a little bit. But like my father, of course, he went to night school and h — then he got — became a citizen. My mother did not go to night school. She nev — she spoke broken English all the way through. She spoke a certain amount of English. She did not become a citizen until quite late in life. But then she made up her mind and she did get her citizenship.

SIGRIST:

Were there any occasions that you can remember prior to going to Czechoslovakia where English would have been spoken in the house?

BUGA:

Well, not with my parents.

SIGRIST:

Not with your parents.

BUGA:

Not with my parents. It would — we would be speaking Hungarian with the parents.

SIGRIST:

But you and your sister —

BUGA:

Which I —

SIGRIST:

— might communicate in English?

BUGA:

Oh, yes. That would be English. It wouldn't be — and unfortunately, our children all [chuckles] speak just English. They — they did not learn the — they were not really exposed to the grandparents already that, you know, they would speak Hungarian.

SIGRIST:

Well, what do you remember about getting ready to go back to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Well, I don't remember too much; I'll tell you the truth, because most of the time it was, "Let's go," you know, in quite a lot of a hurry or something to that effect. So we didn't have much to say about it and that was it.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what you packed to take with you to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Well, they took everything that they could in the house. [chuckles] I know that they — my mother took things that might have been beautiful antiques now, dishes and things of that type, which, of course, when they came back, they brought nothing. They had to start from scratch.

SIGRIST:

But when they went over they brought a lot.

BUGA:

But when — they took everything.

SIGRIST:

Well, that's interesting.

BUGA:

But all household articles that they — that could be transported, not furniture but everything else. I guess pillows and bedding and — and dishes and s — and things of that nature.

SIGRIST:

What do you suppose the philosophy was behind taking so much to Czechoslovakia? Why was it —

BUGA:

Because they were living — because they were going to be not living here anymore. So whatever they had, they wanted to take with them, their — their belongings.

SIGRIST:

Was this the trip where, in the beginning of the interview, you said they crated the sewing machine?

BUGA:

This is that trip, yes. They even took the sewing machine and it was a —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember an object, something that was personal to you that you took as a child to Czechoslovakia [unclear]?

BUGA:

I don't think we had too many things that were — you know, I really don't even remember if I ever received the doll. I'll tell you the truth. I have no recollection of any dolls that I would have been attached to or anything along the line there, so I really had nothing special that we were attached to, really.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how — you said your father chose to stay here? Is that —

BUGA:

Well, the — my father stayed here the first time but the second time, of course —

SIGRIST:

[unclear] he came and then stayed a year and came back.

BUGA:

Then — yeah.

SIGRIST:

That's right. Where did you go to get on the ship to get to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

I don't know where we went on but [chuckles] I'll tell you, we covered an awful lot of territory. I can't understand why we went through so much territory, unless it was because of the war. It was, as I said, soon after the war.

SIGRIST:

You think this is 1920 or '21, sometime.

BUGA:

Eur — that's right. Europe was in a very hectic condition. The things that I remember is, as we were traveling, and I don't know where — well, we must have boarded in New York. I mean, as far as that goes.

SIGRIST:

Do you have any memories of being on the ship [unclear]?

BUGA:

Yes. It was very rough. It was extremely rough and I was seasick coming and going, very, very much.

SIGRIST:

Both times.

BUGA:

Both times, yes.

SIGRIST:

Uh-huh.

BUGA:

My mother was too and my sister, who was a sickly person, was asking my mother always to go up and have tea and — and have cookies and things like that. And my mother was seasick so [chuckles] she wasn't going. But it was a very, very rough — I remember a couple of times that the boat was practically like this and my sister — she must have been, like, mmm, maybe five or whatever she was — she came running. She says, "Hey, they're sweeping the" — the water was sweeping all over the boat. And then the — they h — I remember on the ship, they had — it was not an — it must have been third class, whatever it was. It wasn't very elaborate. They had long — real long dining room tables and when the boat was rough, the dishes all went down off the tables and all that. It was a very rough crossing, very rough crossing. I don't remem — don't remember too much about going over. I remember more of the coming back, as far as that goes. But going over, I'm sure we left from New York. I don't know where we land — well, we must have landed at Antwerp. I don't know why, because I know we were in Belgium. We were in — I remember the — the type of railroad stations they have, these glass, big glass enclosed railroad stations and that we could not get water, because they told us the wells had — they were not giving water to the tourists, anyway, because they said that the wells had been poisoned by the Germans during the war. Then we went over into — I know we were in Germany. Then we were in Austria. I remember —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how you were traveling or —

BUGA:

I don't know how [chuckles] — I do — I don't understand why we were in all these places but we were. I remember we — we were in Vienna and we were in what had been a stable, I think, that was fixed up into like a hotel. Things were very, very rough in all that. And also, they were having a restaurant strike. We could not find any food at all. I remember they were selling little green apples on the corner. That was — people were buying. Eventually, they went to the consulate. And the — our group — oh, I guess there were a couple of people that we knew. They were t — we were traveling together with and they took us to an — must have been like an underground place. It was down in the cellar where they — I remember they served stew or something like that because there was no other place open that was selling food. They were having a food strike, a railroad strike after the war. And then, eventually, we were — we were in Switzerland. We were up in the Alps in an American school for American children. And that's why I said, "I don't understand how we were traveling in all these places or why."

SIGRIST:

And it seems like [unclear] Switzerland —

BUGA:

Anyway, yeah.

SIGRIST:

— you were there for a while.

BUGA:

And that thing — n — no, well just — I guess like just overnight or something.

SIGRIST:

Oh, I see. Uh-huh.

BUGA:

Although, like in Vienna too, I don't know. We were — I guess they were not — not ready to send people on to other places. But I — when we were going through — now, I don't know whether that was Czechoslovakia already but we were traveling for quite a while. And again, there was no food and, eventually, the people on the train began to rebel and protest. So they stopped the train someplace and I remember that they brought up coffee (it was very nice, fresh coffee and I didn't like coffee) and black, almost like black, but fresh bread. And that was it; that was all the food that they got but the people at least had something to eat, because there was nothing on the train and we were traveling for quite a while before we eventually got to the place where we were going. [unclear] —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember as you're going to all of these places — do you remember seeing things that made an impression on you because you had never seen something looked like that before or —

BUGA:

Well, of course, it was interesting in — in the Swiss Alps too. You know, it was quite amazing for us. And all of it was i — interesting in a way because they were not — it's not similar to things around here. Let's put it that way. But it was after the war so everything was in a — sort of a hectic stage.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember seeing any war damage, for instance, in some of these —

BUGA:

Not really, I don't think, other than what people said, because I don't think they took us to any of those places. I think that our t — trip was quite controlled as we moved from one section to the other.

SIGRIST:

When you say controlled, do you mean [unclear] —

BUGA:

Well, I mean that we had to go where — where the — not t — not a tour guide but where the local government, more or less, directed that people should go. I'm pretty sure.

SIGRIST:

Did your father have the same desire to go back —

BUGA:

[clears throat]

SIGRIST:

— to Czechoslovakia that your mother had?

BUGA:

No, [chuckles] he did not. He did not at any time. As I said, he never — never really wanted to go back. Never. And I'm sure that she had a quite a job to, you know, talk him into going back in that thing. But, you know, he was a nice man so he finally gave in to her. But he — no, he did not want to go back.

SIGRIST:

As — as a child, do you remember — how did you entertain yourself, [chuckles] you know, through this whole process?

BUGA:

Well, you mean in Europe or where?

SIGRIST:

Yeah, as you were traveling to Czechoslovakia —

BUGA:

Oh, as we were traveling.

SIGRIST:

— you know, what kinds of things did you do to entertain yourself?

BUGA:

I don't think you worried too much about entertaining. You were glad to be there, I guess. I don't think — I — I used to read, even at that young age, and probably — but there wasn't that much to read on the way there, I'm sure. So — and I used to like to draw so I probably did those things. That's about it.

SIGRIST:

Do you have a story about something that your much younger — your not much younger, but your younger sister did during this process? Something that sticks out in your mind?

BUGA:

Well, she was a little fraidy cat. In fact, there was a problem even over here. She would never go down the cellar to get anything. I had to do it all the time, which used to annoy me. But she was always — my mother h — had to be practically holding her hand all the time. So she never did venture too far to do anything. She was really very, very shy.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember something that happened that frightened your sister?

BUGA:

I don't know why. She just grew up that way.

SIGRIST:

No, but I mean — I mean during [unclear] —

BUGA:

No, I don't know of anything. No. I don't know anything specific, that she was just born that way, I guess, to —

SIGRIST:

Do you know if you had your luggage and stuff with you during this whole process or —

BUGA:

Well, we had luggage. I don't know what kind of luggage [chuckles] it was.

SIGRIST:

But I mean —

BUGA:

But —

SIGRIST:

— you took the sewing machine.

BUGA:

Yeah. Well —

SIGRIST:

It's a lot of stuff.

BUGA:

— that was, you know, the show — the sewing machine was, I guess, just transported along. I don't know how.

SIGRIST:

Sent ahead, maybe, or —

BUGA:

And I don't remember seeing [chuckles] any luggage but we — I'm sure that we had luggage, a lot of it somewhere along the way [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Tell me what happened when you got to Czechoslovakia, finally.

BUGA:

Well, finally, we stayed at my grandmother's. I told you that. Qu — they had quite a p — big piece of property so we were there for a very short while. And then my father — well, they — I guess my mother still convinced my father that we're staying there because they bought property. They bought a house.

SIGRIST:

Your mother and father bought —

BUGA:

My mother and father bought a house about two or three streets away from my grandmother at the end of the town. Well, everything was more or less at the end of the town there because the town wasn't that big anyway. And it was quite a big piece of property there. And I think we had one cow and a couple of horses. They were not too much into — my father was not going to go into too much farming anyway, but we did have land, farmland, which was scattered throughout the outside of the town, because that's how they — you know, the village people lived in the village. And the land that they had was in different parts of the village. They'd have forest land in one section and then, incidentally, they had beautiful forests, not like over here, for the simple reason that everybody had to give, like, a day or two to go there to help clear up the forest, and then they could have the privilege of bringing home the wood. But they had to donate their horse and wagon and spend a day or two whenever — this was not very democratic but it — they had beautiful forests. You could have picnics in the forests and all along the things. They're very well cleaned up and very well kept, as far as that goes. So —

SIGRIST:

What was the name of the town again that you went back to?

BUGA:

It was Nagy Bereg.

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

BUGA:

[chuckles] N-A-G-Y. It means big. And B-E-R-E-G, which is just a name.

SIGRIST:

And do you remember where —

BUGA:

That —

SIGRIST:

— in the country this was? What — north, south, east, west, what — what it was near?

BUGA:

This is — this is a part of Czechoslovakia that was the tail end of Czechoslovakia and very close to — at that time, it was very close to Russia. Now, I — at that time, I didn't understand why they had Russian being taught in the school instead of, like, Czechoslovakian, because we had the Hungarian and the Russian. But this region that they took from Hungary, that Czechoslovakia took from Hungary, was called the Pod Carparcarus [PH]. Pod — Pod — P-O-D meant foot of the Russian Carpathian. And there were — the Carpathians were there because my grandfather had a great big, big, big, big vineyard, which was the side of the mountain. And we, later on, my father also bought, but not that mountain, another mountain that was just starting up, because I remember going out there, planting the grapevines. I don't think he ever got anything out of it because we didn't stay there that long. But anyway, it was on a different mountain, but my grandfather had this tremendously big, big, big vineyard from the top. It came down — it was the side of the mountain, which later on, we have discovered that when some of our relatives went over there (we never did get back) — some of the relatives went there. They were not allowed to go into the town, and this was maybe like 10 years ago. No, 15 years ago. They would not allow the — these people to go into the town. They allowed the people to go out and meet them, like in Moscow or some other place. And we — we figured out, because the letters too were getting censored that were coming out of there, they were — had fortification on the Carpathian Mountains there. And that's why they were not allowing the people to go into the — the — you know, the Americans to go into the town. They let their people go out but I guess the people knew well enough not to talk, for their own good. So that was where — and we used to have, of course, a lot of fun. You said, what did we do? Well, we sew — we went and picked grapes, [chuckles] harvested the grapes —

SIGRIST:

Can you talk a little bit, speaking of grapes, about the — the process of planting the vineyard and — and —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— that whole —

BUGA:

Well, it —

SIGRIST:

— part.

BUGA:

We had this — this was a new mountainside. I guess they were just starting it up as a — a — a vineyard. And, well, it was a — a very tedious job because it was just planting — each little grapevine had to be planted one at a time. And — and this was quite a big piece of property so it took a long, long time to do all that, and harvesting the grapes took a long, long time too, because everything was done by the family in that thing there. So —

SIGRIST:

You mentioned earlier that your father didn't really have a great inclination to be a farmer.

BUGA:

Hmm-uh.

SIGRIST:

And I'm just wondering, what do you suppose his motivation was to create this vineyard on this property?

BUGA:

Well, it — if they were going to stay there, you know, everybody — everybody had the different types of land where they raised different things. And I don't know what it was but I guess it was the thing to do.

SIGRIST:

How did your father —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— or your mother support the family while you were there?

BUGA:

That's what I'm — I'm just thinking back now, that when my father came back, when the —

SIGRIST:

[sentence unclear].

BUGA:

— my father came back after the one year, how did my mother survive? I don't know. And what — my father must have sent money from America because —

SIGRIST:

So how was the family surviving during the year that he was there?

BUGA:

Well, they had the farm and — and I guess they took money from here. So I mean, whatever money that they had, they took with them. And of course, my father worked all the time, you know, and — and my mother worked too part — you know, most of the time, yes, she was working. So they had some money. They were always a very — we were a saving family. Let's put it that way. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

Frugal.

BUGA:

So very frugal, yes. So they must have taken money. But then they had the farm. And I suppose they sold some of the farm products that — that was raised. So I don't know. I mean, he only stayed there a year. But I don't know. I was thinking back that how did my mother manage, you know, with the two girls then and — and her. And one other thing I remember, you know, going back to the mobilization, that we had — we had quite a big house but it was like a railroad flat, if you remember, you know, what the railroad flats are like. Rooms are one after the other. And the entrance, main entrance was through the kitchen. Now, that meant we had a room that was like a — actually, it was a spare room but could be a living room, at this end. But you had to enter from the kitchen. Now, we had to quarter soldiers there. I told you, they were mobilizing. Soldiers were — the Czech soldiers were mobil — boarded there, quite a number of them. Now, they were nice enough. They [chuckles] went through the window. They did not go through our kitchen. But they went — they — you know, they went out through the window. Of course, it was all on floor, level, so it wasn't, you know — but they were nice enough that way that —

SIGRIST:

Did you, at that time, have any consciousness of what they were mobilizing for?

BUGA:

I didn't even know what mobilizing was, of course. But I mean, of course we were all aware that it was — wasn't good that my father would be caught up into it, you know, and — and — and he realized that too, that — because there everybody had to serve. And I guess he escaped that when he came to America. Everybody had to be — everybody was drafted into service. They had to serve one or two years, I guess, whatever — which is very typical of most European countries, that the young men had to be — to give, like, two years of their — before they got married. But he escaped that [chuckles] when he came to America. So he was afraid that he'd be caught up in that because he was still young enough to, you know — to be drafted if they were going to do it.

SIGRIST:

Do you have any other memories that — that — that are connected with that mobilization? You talk about the soldiers being in the house.

BUGA:

Hmm, no. I don't remember.

SIGRIST:

Or anything that happened specifically? An interaction you had with one of the soldiers who was —

BUGA:

No.

SIGRIST:

— stationed [unclear]?

BUGA:

No, as I said, they were very nice about staying out of our way. You know, as I said, that they didn't — they went out through the window, [chuckles] which sounded silly and all. But of course, you know, to us that was — well, it was a little bit strange as far as that goes, but that was the thing that — we knew that th — that there was a lot of control in the town because when we first went there — of course, having grown — grown up in America, everything — you know, you don't think of restrictions as far as colors and things or like that. Well, I went to school and, obviously, I had — I remember I had a little white apron. And whatever else I had on, it worked out to the combination of red, white and green, which was forbidden, because those were the Hungarian colors. And they were — the Russians were very much against anything like that. They were very strict about — in fact, they were having some kind of a celebration and they had an archway that they made. Well, now, roses are red. They're white. Leaves are green. Well, they made a big to-do about it. The — whoever was in charge of it was reprimanded, if not punished for having that combination. They were very strict at that time about anything that was Hungarian. They were trying to downplay it, anyway. So — in that thing. Of course, we ran into a lot of difficulties because I didn't know. One of the things, of course, we had to do every day, we were supposed to go to church. Well, I didn't know that. I mean, when [chuckles] — when we first got there, every morning before you went to school you had to go to — it — the school was next to the church, but I didn't know it anyway. So naturally, we got what they called a kermish [PH]. You had to hold your hands like this and, with a ruler, the teacher let you have it. So —

SIGRIST:

You're holding your — your —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— pointing all your fingers to [unclear].

BUGA:

Well, they — so — so they got your nails.

SIGRIST:

To — to hit the [unclear].

BUGA:

The kermish was — yes, yes. And so I — and I didn't know why I was getting punished. That was the [chuckles] nice part of it. I did —

SIGRIST:

Well, wh — what happened with the dress? You started telling me that —

BUGA:

Well, they — they reprimanded me, that they told me that, you know, I shouldn't wear that combination, the red, white and green.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember any of the other restrictions or the rules —

BUGA:

[unclear] —

SIGRIST:

— that you had to —

BUGA:

They were — yes.

SIGRIST:

— follow [unclear] —

BUGA:

They were very strict. Yes, they were very strict. Everything had to be cleared with the — the town mayor, who was more than just the mayor, actually. You — anything — well, and he had to grease their palms. That was the thing I remember, yes. If you wanted something, then you better first grease the palms of these people.

SIGRIST:

Meaning, bribing people —

BUGA:

Bribing, yes, yes. They didn't call it bribing, you know, but you better show something that — an — any kind of a jo — anything that you wanted done, any legal matter, any papers or anything that you wanted done, first, you better approach the right person and make it worth his while, or else you're not going to get it done, as far as that goes.

SIGRIST:

Was there a military presence in town too? Did you see soldiers?

BUGA:

Not really. Not really. Not too obviously. Let's put it that way. It wasn't that obvious. But — but the people in control were very strict a — about anything that they felt wasn't according to the Russian — what do you call it? Anything that was Hungarian. They did not want them to sing the Hungarian anthem or do anything that was along the Hungarian line, although Hungarian was spoken and — and was taught in the school, along with the Russian, which I don't remember at all, not even one word. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

Well, that's interesting about the restrictions. When you were in school, did the Russians try to teach you Russian customs?

BUGA:

Well, I don't know if they taught Russian customs but they taught you to read and — and write in Russian and all those other things. I mean, they didn't — they didn't restrict the Hungarian, as far as that goes as — you know, as far as teaching it in — in school because, I mean, we all spoke Hungarian. We didn't speak Russian as far as that goes.

SIGRIST:

It's interesting that they would allow Hungarian —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— to be spoken. And yet, there was [unclear] —

BUGA:

Oh, yes. The town — the whole town spoke Hungarian. But at the same time, well, a lot of the things that were involved was — was the Russian, which I didn't understand that, why it was Russian and not Czechoslovakian, as far as that goes. But — but as I said, later on, because this region was at the — they called the Rus — Russian Carpathian. And this is the region now that has been t — that, very shortly, was taken by Russia before it — I guess it's part of U — the Ukraine now. I don't even know what it is. I have one cousin that is there, but I can't really communicate now. The last letter she wrote, she addressed the envelope, but it was addressed with the — with — according to Russia. Now, I'm sure that the address is not the same. So — and I can't do it because it would have to be in those — Russian alphabet.

SIGRIST:

— We're going to pause —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— just for a second —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— right now and I'm going to put another tape in, and we're going to talk a little bit more —

BUGA:

Did I give you a glass of ginger ale?

SIGRIST:

No, that's okay. This is Paul Sigrist signing off of —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— tape one. [END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B] [BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE A]

SIGRIST:

Okay. This is Paul Sigrist. Again, today is Monday, September 29 th , 1997. We're now beginning tape two with Irene Buga —

BUGA:

[chuckles]

SIGRIST:

— who came — was born in the United States, was taken back to Czechoslovakia and then returned to the United States at the very beginning of 1924. Mrs. Buga, you were just telling us some very interesting information about the various restrictions, the sort of anti-Hungarian —

BUGA:

Uh-hmm.

SIGRIST:

— sentiment that was going on in this town. Can you tell me a little bit about the other people who lived in the town? Were they all Hungarian or what — what — what makeup were they?

BUGA:

They were all — the town was all Hungarian. Yes. I don't think that — I believe everybody was Hungarian in that town. And they were — since there was no other church there, I imagine they were all Protestants, because we did not have a Catholic church in town, although I imagine there probably were some Catholics that went to another town to a church, because that's the only church that we had in there.

SIGRIST:

What — what do you remember about your religious life during that time in Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Well, everybody had to go to church. Everybody went to church on Sunday. But as I said, the schoolchildren had to go to church every morning before school. And —

SIGRIST:

Was the school run by the Reformed Church?

BUGA:

No, I don't think —

SIGRIST:

What —

BUGA:

— it was.

SIGRIST:

Okay.

BIGA:

It was run by the town, I imagine. And in the school, you also — it was very nice. They had a garden all around it and you also had to work out in the garden. And so you — things were not very democratic; you just did it. And [chuckles] no — you didn't question the thing there because I remember there was a garden, and we had to go out there and — and take turns in weeding and taking care of the — whatever it was, the — mostly flowers, probably, I think it was, right around the school grounds next — next to the church and — and the school grounds.

SIGRIST:

Did you receive any kind of religious instruction at school?

BUGA:

Oh, n — I don't think so. Not that I remember because it was really history and math and — and things of that nature, really.

SIGRIST:

What sticks out in your mind about —

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

— attending church in Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

[unclear] — well, I don't think there's any — it was a very old church. The building was very old and quite big. And I don't really — I don't remember too much about it. I remember that they had what they call the pews. A — as you entered it, they — I'm trying to think of what they call — they call that in America too, that — the bad people had to sit there anyway, as you — the pauper's pew or something. It's at the entrance of the church and it was a very — I guess very old fashioned. Naturally, it would be a very old fashioned, crude type of church, I think. As far as I remember. I don't remember too much about the — just that we went and we listened to the minister and — and I think that was it.

SIGRIST:

Did anything ever happen once when you were —

BUGA:

Nothing.

SIGRIST:

— in church?

BUGA:

Not — nothing, really. No. Everybody was well behaved. [chuckles] Children were well behaved too, so you better be —

SIGRIST:

How did you practice your religion at home?

BUGA:

Well, our family was always very religious, as far as that goes. We were all Protestants but we all went to church regularly. We were all taught to pray and —

SIGRIST:

In Hungarian?

BUGA:

— the hands and — oh, well, at the beginning it was Hungarian. And then later on, we learned it in English.

SIGRIST:

Once you got back.

BUGA:

But, you know, even when we came here, when we came back, 1924, at that time, they were still having Hungarian religious schools here. And we had — summer schools. And we had to attend that. That was all in Hungarian, that thing. But —

SIGRIST:

Is there a prayer that you learned as a child in Hungarian that you can still say on tape?

BUGA:

Ah, just the — "Our Father." That's it.

SIGRIST:

Could you do that in Hungarian?

BUGA:

Oh, ah — right offhand, [chuckles] I can't even — w — oh, isn't that terrible?

SIGRIST:

Maybe if you say it slowly, it will —

BUGA:

Yeah, I know [chuckles] [unclear]. Oh, I don't think — maybe I don't even remember it anymore. I can't even repeat it on tape.

SIGRIST:

Maybe if — if it comes to you, just —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— start saying it.

BUGA:

I'm try — yeah, but I — I —

SIGRIST:

Or a grace —

BUGA:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

— that you may have said before dinner or something like that?

BUGA:

Well, they — it — it would be — it would just be "[speaking in Hungarian]," which means "God's blessing on this." "[speaking in Hungarian." "You" — wait a minute. "[speaking in Hungarian]. Oh, I don't remember what we were saying anyway. I — you know, it's terrible too but, because we didn't speak Hung — in our family, I mean, after we grow up and — I mean, after I was married and all, we didn't speak Hungarian, really. We didn't practice Hungarian so that's the reason my daughter didn't learn Hungarian either. We always — always talked in English, you know, and talked with my mother in Hungarian but she wasn't always with me. And then, of course, she died a number of years ago. My mother and father died both a number of years ago. I feel sorry for my daughter because she never really had grandparents, because she never had it on my husband's side. And she was quite young when my mother died and a little bit older when my father died. So she never really knew too much about grandparents [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Tell me about in — in Czechoslovakia, how you celebrated Christmas.

BUGA:

Well, Christmas, of course, was celebrated. You didn't have all the things that you had around here. I remember that one time I went around and, much to my mother's annoyance, I think, really begging for a big branch of a fir tree to make sort of like a little Christmas tree. My mother was very disturbed that I did that, you know, but, I don't know, somebody had some fir trees around and — and what did they do? They had the walnuts that they put on the tree. You know, it was — I don't know where they got, like, gold or something — gold paper, probably, around it, to wrap around it, and fruit that was hung on it and little paper decorations and things, that type. You did not have the things that — Christmas was not — it was a — a religious holiday more than a celebration. I don't remember receiving any presents — I'll tell you the truth — as far as that goes. I —

SIGRIST:

Were there special foods that you would eat for — for the holiday?

BUGA:

Well, it was a little nicer. They always made what was called a kolach [PH] and that is a — a rolled dough that was filled with walnuts and poppy seed and, oh, maybe cottage cheese or prune. One thing I remember there when we were growing up, [unclear] to go back to farming, I told you, we had a big — oh, my grandfather had a big, big, big — very big orchard. And they had what they call here the Italian plums, which are still my favorites. And they had — they picked that and they made the — what they call lekvar [PH], pr — which is a prune — well, prune jam. But it was made — this was a — a family picnic, almost like, because all night long, some — they had these great big containers, pots outdoors. And all night long, somebody had to stir this and stir this and stir this until it became like a real thick — I don't know if you know what lekvar is. Well, it's a — a real thick black, almost like a black jam, which is used a lot in baking, Hungarian baking, but it's used a lot in baking today too, as far as that goes. But it took an all-night effort of constant stirring and stirring and stirring before it really boiled down to that stage. And it — you'd be there all night. Someb — I mean, people had to stay there all night to do this, keep the fire going and keep on stirring this. And then they would pack it away and, of course, that would be all — all year round, they could be having this. I don't understand one thing here about America, why potatoes and all the fruits are spoiling after a very short time. Over there, they used to keep the potatoes. They used to put grapes up in the attic and just hang them over — over, like wires. And they would stay. They would not become decayed or anything. Potatoes stayed. Apples stayed without any pr — you know, preservation. They used to have in the town hall — it was a great big town hall that they had — and underneath it, they had some cellars where people, I guess — I guess you had to pay some money. I don't know. But they used to store apples and potatoes, just in the — in the cellar there, and they kept all winter. They didn't sp — do the things that they do here in America with turning mushy and that. Everything was, you know, stored up. And of course, they would kill the pig. And that would be in all the years, practically.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember that happening?

BUGA:

Oh, yes. Yes.

SIGRIST:

Can you describe for me what they did?

BUGA:

Well, they — we did that over here too in America for a great many years. Well that was —

SIGRIST:

What do you remember about Czechoslovakia and how they —

BUGA:

Well, they — as I said, they — everybody killed pigs. Everybody killed pigs. And they used to be great big pigs that — and that, again, was a whole family affair, like, you know, and they killed the pig and they used to take the blood. And the blood was saved and they used that to make a — a kind of a — a — I think they — they call it — the Polish people call it tishka [PH]. It was a — a rice mixed with the — it was stuffed into the — the — what do you call it — the stomach of the — of the pigs and all that. And — and they had — they cut up the parts and smoked some of it. And everybody that came to the picnic, of course, had a little meal out of — of — out of the thing with sauerkraut and other things that they had to — I don't know. They were — did something with a fire, with a — with a — with a pig, you know, to get the hair off the pig [chuckles] and all that. But it was quite a — a — it was always a celebration. But as I said, they brought that custom with them over here too because I remember —

SIGRIST:

[unclear] —

BUGA:

— my father, you know, having the pig r — pig [unclear] or pig killing over here, and then they were pretty big pigs. And of course, there again, the meat kept without really any preservatives that they used. They smoked part of it. They had little smoke houses, as far as that goes. But everything —

SIGRIST:

What kind of food did you eat on a daily basis in Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

[breathes deeply] [chuckles] I don't know what I — we ate. Fruits. We had fruits. We had eggs. I don't think we had too much bacon, as far as that goes, and not too much meat, as far as that goes. I remember going down to the store and there again, the stores did not have a paper package, you know, bags to bring things in. Like, we used to take a dish. You wanted some salt, you took a dish down so they put some salt in there, or a couple of eggs. And sometimes, you took eggs to trade for something else. I remember taking, you know, like, two eggs if you wanted — we had a little Jewish — Jewish little store [chuckles] and not too far from where we lived. And I don't know. We wanted whatever it was that we wanted. Maybe it was candy or something. And we would take, like, two eggs and they would give us the candy, as far as that goes. And I remember that that Jewish were very holy, of course. And when their holy day came, they would pay — would — they would give us candy or something to light the fire or do something along — or do some trivial little thing that they were not allowed to do —

SIGRIST:

To get a gentile to do —

BUGA:

— in that thing —

SIGRIST:

— something that had to be done.

BUGA:

Right. That they wouldn't do, you know. That was it.

SIGRIST:

The — the Jewish population in this town —

BUGA:

There wasn't —

SIGRIST:

Did they live in — in —

BUGA:

No. They were just scattered through — there were — I don't think there were too many of them but there were some. And as I said, this store was very close to where we lived. Not — where my grandmother lived, not where we lived and that thing.

SIGRIST:

Were you inside of town or outside of town?

BUGA:

As I said, the town was not very large. It didn't have too many streets and it was sort of more like going, like, this. And we lived right on the outskirt — the property we bought was on the outskirts of the town. But that was only like two or three streets away. And then, as I said, where my grandfather lived, his property — his orchard went back. I — I — of course, you know, y — when you're young, things look a little bit longer but, oh, at least a quarter of a mile, this orchard, which, incidentally, after we came back, my mother — after some time (my father held onto the property for a while), but then there was a fire in the barn and something else happened. So they sold that property. I don't think they got any money out of it because they weren't allowed to bring money out. So that went over to my uncle [sniffs] and all the land then they had to — I don't know. There was another — some kind of a movement there with the Russian, so all the land that was owned by foreigners would have been taken away immediately. So it was written o — in the name of my uncles. And th — he ended up with quite a lot of land because there were my aunt's land, you know, and my father's land, and my father's land that he had inherited from his side of the family. But eventually, what happened, all of this land anyway, most of it was taken by the Russian anyway when they — the commune system came in and all that. So I know that the orchard — they say maybe they got a little land in back of the barn and that's about all that was left for them, and I don't know how much of the other land that they had.

SIGRIST:

The rest was absorbed —

BUGA:

But —

SIGRIST:

— by the government.

BUGA:

That's — it was taken away, yes. It became common property in that thing.

SIGRIST:

Well, one thing that we haven't talked about in talking —

BUGA:

No.

SIGRIST:

— about Czechoslovakia is we really haven't talked about your relationship to your mother's parents.

BUGA:

N —

SIGRIST:

And, you know, how important they were —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— they were in your life or not important.

BUGA:

Mmm. Well, we used to w — visit my grandmother and my grandfather. And my grandfather, as I — I told you, was a bus — sort of like a businessman so he was pretty busy with —

SIGRIST:

What sticks out in your mind about your grandmother?

BUGA:

My grandmother was sort of sickly too. And I guess probably that's where my mother inherited, because my mother used to say that she has to have a certain kind of medicine for her stomach. And I just remember her as a little old lady [chuckles], I'll tell you the truth. A little old lady in black and I don't — of course, as I said, we stayed there for a very short while. And then, otherwise, I guess we went to visit her every now and then. But then, as I said, it — the two years, it wasn't that long of a time to do too much, really, but —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember when your father left to come back to the United States?

BUGA:

Well, I know he — as I said, he left during the night rather quickly. And I couldn't understand, you know, what was all going on, what was the secrecy and all this that he had to leave during the night very unexpectedly. And —

SIGRIST:

Did anyone attempt to explain that to you, why this happened?

BUGA:

No. Well, th — they just said that, you know, there was that danger of mobilization and that was it. But they just take — you know, those people were so used to, oh — so many things have happened up there that was government control that the people more or less took it, "This is the way it's got to be," and didn't question. Or it wasn't right to ques — it wasn't very safe to question. The same thing with the running of the government or anything that was happening in town. You better not question it and that's the way it was, or else you'd be in trouble. People were —

SIGRIST:

Just had to accept, yeah.

BUGA:

— were sort of afraid to question if anything happened in town, which sometimes they did but, you know, it was more or less hush, hush as far as they could do it.

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me a little bit — we've talked about Czechoslovakia quite a bit —

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

— actually. Is there anything else about your time in Czechoslovakia that you would like to —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— to tell about? Something else that sticks out in your mind about that experience or — or — you know, you — you mentioned —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— to me earlier on that, of course, you reverted to speaking Hungarian.

BUGA:

Well, I did, yes. We spoke in Hungarian there, of course, all the time and — and —

SIGRIST:

All the time.

BUGA:

— the Russian was just something we learned in school but it was not a part of our language, you know, nothing that we spoke. We were supposed to be speaking it but I — I didn't [chuckles] amount to very much, I'm afraid. Mmm —

SIGRIST:

Is there anything else about Czechoslo — Czechoslovakia before we get you out of there?

BUGA:

Yeah, we got — no, I don't remember anything else that — we didn't do too — the only thing we did would — we'd go to the — the next large town and sometimes actually — I don't know how many mi — kilometers it was away from there. But I think we actually even walked to the next town, which was a pretty big town, pretty well known town. It was called Bereg Szasz and —

SIGRIST:

Can you spell that?

BUGA:

Oh, it's Bereg, B-E-R-E-G, and S-Z-A-S-Z again. Bereg Szasz with an accent over the A. And that was a big town and that's where they would — although there was a local market in — oh, yeah. We had — used to get, let's see — I'll just think of it. We used to get — Wednesday — I think it was Wednesday. Well, anyway, it was one day during the week when school was closed because that was market day, but we'd have to go to school on Saturday to make up for that day. But one day, I g — I guess it was Wednesday, there would be a local market, just around the town square, because there was like a town square there, and there was a market. But the big market that we would go to, that everybody went to, was in this town, Bereg Szasz, which was, oh, I don't know, probably from here to New Brunswick. I don't think it was any further than that. It was a pretty big b —

SIGRIST:

How many miles is that?

BUGA:

In that thing.

SIGRIST:

Just five miles?

BUGA:

About four miles, four or five miles. And of course, when we went we usually went with the horse and wagon, although there was a train that you could take down at the end of the town there. And every once in a while, I think when my mother was trying to arrange coming back here, I remember her going off on the train a couple of times. And in fact, I remember one thing that, what did I do? Well, the usual things that you do around the household, but among my special hobbies, and there are some hobbies, I used to have a garden with all the — I think every kind of flower that the town people had. Again, I used to go around collecting. And my mother used to get annoyed with me that I would bring samples of all the flowers, so I took care of the garden. I also had a — a — and it was just a hobby because I don't think enough was raised to really use it, different colored beans, all the different variety of beans. And as I said, I don't think there was enough there to — to use [chuckles] in — in c — but that was my hobby that I did that. The other thing that I did, and remember, I was only, like, 10 years old, I remember walking home one day from a field with a bag of beans. I don't know how my mother let me go out — out into this field, which was quite a ways away from our — you know, our property. And the other thing was, we had, I think, one cow. And all the other kids had the chance to get out with the cow in the field, like early in the morning. And of course, I wanted to do it too. My mother didn't think much of the idea but finally, she did let me go once. And it was still dark when the — all the cows came. They went out sort of like in a herd. They'd go around, you know, through the town and all. And all these youngsters went out with them so I went out once with them too, only once. She didn't let me go after that. [chuckles] But I wanted to do all the things the other kids were doing, as far as that goes. So those were the p — and I read, I think, every book in town in Hungarian. I don't think — and there again, I borrowed every book that there was in town. I don't think there was a library. But I mean, these were really g — grownup books. They were not even kids' books that, you know, I was reading as far as that goes.

SIGRIST:

[unclear] there are —

BUGA:

[chuckles]

SIGRIST:

— books all around this. Obviously, [unclear] —

BUGA:

A bo — well, as you know, I — I don't know whether you know. I was a schoolteacher. So [chuckles] that's one of the — yes, I do. Yes, I have a — a lot of books of all kinds. Old —

SIGRIST:

You mentioned that you remember your mother getting on the train —

BUGA:

[unclear]

SIGRIST:

— as part of the process of —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— getting ready to leave again.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Do you know how it was decided that the family would return to your father in America? Well, what happened —

BUGA:

Well, I guess the idea was that he wanted us to come with. I mean, he would have wanted us to come with him when he left. But as I said, my sister was down with scarlet fever, which I later on got — had a mild attack of. So she w — she was very sick. She — she was left with a lot of bad things after that. And —

SIGRIST:

Is there anything specific you remember about her being sick in Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Well, she — in fact, I'll tell you, at one time there they had quite a — an epidemic where a lot of the children were — died in town there because of these different epi — epidemics that she had — I mean that they had. And she was very sick at that time, very sick. And, well, she was like, five, si — five or six years old. And, well, there was no question — well, in fact, my mother was worried that she's not going to live. I mean, she was really that — she had it that bad. She had it very bad. And — and my mother, you know, being alone and all that, oh, m — my mother used — my mother was one of these nervous people too though. Then she'd be very worried about things, you know, if she couldn't handle it. But I guess she was able to handle things anyway, because she went through a lot of things on her own. So she, I guess, did all right. But that's the reason that we — you know, we didn't come back. But it's — my father, I'm sure, would have wanted us to come back. And he did. He worked on us getting back here as soon as possible. But as I said, because of the quota, they ran — he ran into difficulties. He was not an American citizen and j — just couldn't get through. I don't know — finally, I don't know. Somebody gave him the advice, I t — as I said, that she should come as a guardian for two American citizens. And that's how she was eventually able to come. But I know that ev — before we came, I remember she took us to a — a dressmaker and we had fancy dresses made. I mean, we — I don't know where she was getting the money. I'll tell — my father must have sent her money all the time because, I don't know, never questioned these things. I just thought of it recently that, how did we survive without any means of — really, because she was not farming the land or anything like that. So —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember the dress that was made for you?

BUGA:

I remember the thing that, you know, wh — when we went to now, there. She had a dress made and we had — I think I had a picture taken. Now, that — I couldn't find that — I couldn't find the passport with that picture that my sister took all my mother's things after sh — they — my mother's — because she stayed with my mother's house for a while. And when she moved, she had all the things that my mother had. Now, I went through some of the papers, a few things from way, way back about land that they bought and sold back and forth. I don't know. It — I couldn't — I didn't recognize some of the people that were lis — named in these papers, or they sold things back and forth. I couldn't understand why all this selling was going on back and forth, because I didn't know the name of the people. But I did not find the passport with the photograph in it but I remember —

SIGRIST:

But you remember being photographed as a child —

BUGA:

Oh, yes, with the — as I said, we had the picture on the passport, and I remember this dress that we had specially made that — it was quite a — you know, quite an expensive thing to do, even in those days, to have a dress made specially for you, you know, as far as that goes and that —

SIGRIST:

What else did you have to do to get ready to leave Czechoslovakia? What else had to be —

BUGA:

Oh —

SIGRIST:

— accomplished before you could leave?

BUGA:

Well, I guess — my — I remember my mother had to go, wherever she was going — I don't even know where she was going — a number of times by herself on the train. This — it was a little train that ran on — like on the outskirts of the town to — probably to Betigsas [PH], what was the big — next big town that probably had the offices involved with, you know, traveling and all that because our town, I'm sure, did not have anything that — or village. I shouldn't call it a town. Village. [chuckles] Incidentally, where we lived, right next to us — as I said, we lived — it was the edge of the town. But right next to us was a great big thing where they had all the bulls, and they had a lot of big bulls, and this is right next to our property in there. That was the edge of the town there too. So — and one other thing that happened to me when we were in the town is that I told you before that I did not have much knowledge about things in Europe and — and other things. We had rabbits and, one day, I decided I was going — there was some nice green grass on the outskirts of the town. The town wasn't that big that, you know, you couldn't get there very easily. But on the outskirts of the town was also where the gypsies lived, because they — they actually lived there. They had little huts at the edge of the town. Well, anyway, I went out and I picked — I had an apron. Everybody wore an apron in those days. Every little girl had an apron, like a pinafore. And I picked a nice apron full of beautiful green grass, bringing home to my rabbits. And the little gypsy kids got after me and they said I'm going to be arrested because I picked the wheat. It was a wheat field. And, well, I didn't know wheat f — you know, grass. It was just wheat growing a couple of inches high. Well, I just dropped it. I might as well have taken it home and given it to my rabbit, but I dropped it and I ran home. And then for the longest time, I was waiting for the constable or somebody to come to arrest me because I picked the wheat and that thing. There are a lot of things that I didn't know, having grown up over here. But all kinds of things happened —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember —

BUGA:

— in —

SIGRIST:

— saying goodbye to your grandparents before you left?

BUGA:

Well, I — I think they were very unhappy when my mother left. My — you know, they cried very easily. My mother — I mean my grandmother did, not my grandfather. I mean, they sort of got resigned to this coming and going, you know, because one after the other, they — then eventually, my uncle came, the one that had to — had trouble with — I don't know how that turned out anyway eventually, because I don't know whether my mother ever took money home to [chuckles] bail him out. I don't know. I guess the place closed up and that was it. And then my other aunt, whose husband had been here, not Elizabeth but Aunt Ida, her husband was here for a very, very long time before she ever came here with — she had a son and I guess he must have been, like 15 when they came here already. And she came so eventually there was only my uncle left there, and this uncle stayed there. He died about — mmm, about five years ago. But he — he made out all right with the Russians and all. He had a pretty good job with them. He was a chauffeur for one of the head people there, you know, and he was doing all right. And he's the one that — I guess they lost the combine though after the Russians, you know, took it over, I guess, because he didn't have it. [END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A] [BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE B]

SIGRIST:

So you said it was very sad that your — your mother and her mother —

BIGA:

No, my — my mother.

SIGRIST:

— really didn't want to part.

BUGA:

Yeah, my mother — I mean my grandmother and my mother was — felt — she was too — she was very attached to her mother and father, you know, and she thought she was going to stay there and [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how you felt now, having —

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

— to be uprooted again and go to the United States?

BUGA:

I don't know. I — I — we didn't mind it, really, because we were coming with the family, you know, and I don't know. We just took for granted that that's what you do.

SIGRIST:

So it was you —

BUGA:

Anything. I was never upset by it.

SIGRIST:

It was you, your mother and your sister. What was —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— your sister's name, again?

BUGA:

Margaret.

SIGRIST:

Margaret. And were any other family members or people from this town traveling with you?

BUGA:

No, not at that time. No.

SIGRIST:

Okay.

BUGA:

No.

SIGRIST:

Where did you go to get on the ship?

BUGA:

Well, we — Cherbourg is where we went.

SIGRIST:

Went to Cherbourg.

BUGA:

Went to Cherbourg.

SIGRIST:

How did you get from —

BUGA:

Now, we — we went to — we were in Germany, I remember. But f — we were in Prague, too. Now, I don't know what — we were in Prague and one thing I remember there is they had the most delicious crescent horns. They were so light. They were like feather. I still remember this — that to this day that we got there and we stayed there, I guess, like overnight. What — I think we had to go there for some papers to — something, final papers. We had to go to Prague eventually and then went through Germany, and Germany was still having inflation. I remember getting a basket full of money that they told us we could buy a pretzel for. And then eventually, we got to Prague, ah, to Cherbourg through — we went through Paris. So I — I — I don't understand some of these places where we went to but I remember Paris. I remember the stores, that they had rabbits hanging outside of the — the — oh, I guess they were like butcher shops. And all the rabbits hung up along the side there. And we were there, I guess just for a very short time, passing through, I imagine. And I remember, yes, it was Christmas time because it was the first time we ever saw mistletoe. Of course, we didn't know what mistletoe was. But they were doing a lot of transporting of mistletoe, big bo — containers of mistletoe at that time. And — and then we were — I don't know why we had to wait a whole week —

SIGRIST:

In Cherbourg?

BUGA:

— in Cherbourg there. We were in a hotel right on the water.

SIGRIST:

What happened during that week?

BUGA:

Well, ah, what we were — I know we used to walk down to the water [chuckles] because the s — it was sandy out — right outside of the — the hotel there. I don't remember too much about the hotel rooms or anything as far as that goes. I guess my mother didn't do very much. We were there —

SIGRIST:

Did you have to undergo any kind of examinations before you got on the ship?

BUGA:

Or not there. No. But that was when we came to Ellis Island. We had to be examined. But, no —

SIGRIST:

But not on the ship?

BUGA:

I — not in Cherbourg. And I don't think we had to have any kind of a vaccination or anything. Well, we had vaccination in — in Europe there. I remember being vaccinated quite a number of times on the arm, one arm, the other arm quite a number of times, but not — I don't think that was connected with our trip as far as that goes. But in Cherbourg I remember two things that I don't like to this day. One was, they served fish, I think, in every form and I don't like fish. And another thing that, surprisingly, I don't like, was chocolate. I don't know why we had so many big chocolate bars. And I d — I don't care for chocolate. I could take very little of it, I'll tell you the truth, and not in a — not a chocolate bar or anything like that, because it was — it just seemed like constantly they were serving the fish and the chocolate bars. [chuckles] I don't — I don't remember what else they served — I'll tell you the truth — in the meal.

SIGRIST:

This was at the hotel room [unclear]?

BUGA:

This is at the hotel that we were staying. This was right on the — right on the oceanfront where the bay, I guess — there a channel, for that matter, or part — could be part of the channel there. And as I said, we were there for a week. I remember that I — and I think I still have it somewhere and I don't know where — there was somebody there who's an artist or something and he made me a little sketch and gave it to me on — just on a, like a scrap of paper or something, you know. And I know I ran across it recently. And while — yeah, when we were coming back on the boat, it was kind of rough again because it was still winter —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember seeing the ship for the first time?

BUGA:

— in that thing. The ship is not registering in my memory, no. It — it's — that's why I can't remember what the ship was.

SIGRIST:

You mean the name of the ship?

BUGA:

I don't know why that when — either coming or going, I'll tell you the truth. And —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what —

BUGA:

But I — the inside of it but not the outside of it.

SIGRIST:

Uh-hmm.

BUGA:

I — I could remember the, oh, the dining room and it — it had to be the Cunard Line because they had tea every afternoon. That's where my sister was always wanting to drag my mother at four o'clock to go out there and have tea and cookies and everything else. And my mother certainly was not in — and I was seasick all the time. In fact, the steward came at one time and said I've got to eat; I have to eat because they're going to take me to the infirmary if I don't eat. Well, I don't think I ate anyway then. But t — it was Christmastime and they had this beautiful big Christmas tree in the dining room. And they had the children — well, my mother dragged me there eventually. I was — I wasn't in the condition but I went anyway. [sniffs] I was still, you know, feeling very seasick. But anyway, they handed out the gifts from the Christmas tree and there was only one t — one doll and I got that doll. I still have the doll. It needs to be restrung because it was a — a German [unclear] doll, I think, about this big. And, no, it — it wasn't too big. It was about that big. But everything was jointed and the joint was elastic in the — all the joints. And that over the years, which was an awful lot of years, has just worn away and it has to be restrung. And I've — I've inquired to some of the places and all that and [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how you felt when you got the doll?

BUGA:

Oh, well, it was one — you know, it was the only doll and everybody was looking at me rather enviously that I got the doll, you know. It was the best prize on the tree, although I think, at that time, I — I still thought, 'Well, so who cares?' You know, I mean, I'm — the way I'm feeling. But everybody was very envious. I know that. I don't remember what my sister got. She didn't get a doll. She got something and I don't recall what it is and she certainly doesn't have it, whatever it was. But I know that this was a prize thing on the tree, the doll, the little German doll [unclear] —

SIGRIST:

[unclear] else —

BUGA:

— in that thing there.

SIGRIST:

— [unclear] about celebrating Christmas on the ship?

BUGA:

Well, I didn't do too much [chuckles], as I said that I was seasick. So I — I didn't do too much celebrating at all. I don't even remember having a meal on that ship in that thing because I've — I've had that problem even after this. I've had a problem with — inner ear problem, you know, as a child too. It — which continued with me, I guess to this day. So this problem — oh, well, yes, because I've had vertigo since that too so —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how long the ship took to get to America?

BUGA:

A long time. It took a long time. I don — I don't know. Hmm. Days-wise, I don't know. I — I'm trying to think that — but it did take a long time. It was not a three-day affair. I think it must have been 15 —

SIGRIST:

[unclear] actually landed —

BUGA:

— ma —

SIGRIST:

— af — after 1924.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

[unclear].

BUGA:

As I said, it must — ah, it must have been, like, 15 — 10, 15 days, anyway, I think. I don't —

SIGRIST:

Does anything else stick out in your mind about that particular crossing? Crossing back —

BUGA:

Nothing, [unclear].

SIGRIST:

— from Europe to the United States?

BUGA:

Hmm, no, because as I said —

SIGRIST:

Your sister's older now —

BUGA:

Anything —

SIGRIST:

Well, tell me what happened when the ship got to New York. What happened?

BUGA:

Well, we got into — we got to Ellis Island —

SIGRIST:

Did you see the Statue of Liberty?

BUGA:

— a — and, well, I — we must have seen the Statue of Liberty [chuckles] but as I said that we came in there and we were examined. We had to go through the examination. And we would have left, I think, although my father was supposed to meet us someplace. I don't know where he was supposed to meet us. But my mother told us this, that she didn't under — you know, she didn't speak too much English. And they — there was a certain requirement that you had to have a certain amount of money. I don't know. I think she mentioned $40, that you had to have at least $40 or something before they released you on your own. Well, she said she said the wrong amount, you know, not speaking very good English. Whatever the amount is, and they told her that she — she couldn't go. And she got very upset, of course. So we had to wait around and wait around. My father was waiting someplace else. Eventually, somehow or other, I guess he inquired, you know, what the holdup was and all this and that. So eventually, he managed to come t — over to where we were eventually, and then we explained the situation and all and [chuckles] they released her. But she was very upset because she — she said the wrong amount, whatever it was, that they were supposed to have a certain amount of money to make sure you were not an indigent, you know, and [unclear] over here. But —

SIGRIST:

Does anything stick out in your —

BUGA:

You see?

SIGRIST:

— mind about what you saw, what — what —

BUGA:

I just remember being there and, well, I remember all the people there sitting on their bundles with [chuckles] their babushkas and all that. And we were — and as I said, my mother but this time was quite disturbed because she expected to be gone, you know, and people were going and — and they won't let her go because, as I said that she said she said the wrong amount of money that they had. And I remember standing there and sort of like seeing the other side, that where we're supposed to be. And we can't get there because, as I said, they won't let us go along the line there. And my mother's getting, you know, sort of panicky about what's going to happen now, you know. And after a long time, of course, when she saw my father, of course, she thought, 'Oh, everything is solved.' And that — and it took him a long time to manage to, you know, get there because I guess he had to go around and inquire in why the holdup and all that, or where were we? Why weren't we, you know, being allowed to — to, you know, embark or get off there.

SIGRIST:

When you arrived in the United States, your name was Kopor? It had been —

BUGA:

Oh, yes. Kopor.

SIGRIST:

Kopor.

BUGA:

Y — yeah.

SIGRIST:

C-O — K-O —

BUGA:

K-O-P-O-R.

SIGRIST:

Right. You mentioned briefly the examination at Ellis Island. Does anything stick out in your mind about that?

BUGA:

I don't remember the thing. I remember hearing the — you know, a lot of people that they — you know, they kept people because they had tuberculosis or something. They were putting people who were crying because they were not allowed to — they'd have to go back. Actually, they were very strict about the tuberculosis checkup that they had. So I remember, like, a lot of people crying about the fact that they were not — they're — they were not going to be allowed to stay. They would have to go back to where they came from. All around us, there were people — there were quite a few people, I guess, that were found to have problems.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember how you felt when saw your dad?

BUGA:

Well, of course, I'm sure we were all very happy and relieved. [chuckles] I think relief was the most important thing that, you know, he finally is there and that we — we can go in that thing there all the —

SIGRIST:

Where did he take you when you left?

BUGA:

Where did he — well, we — when we came back here —

SIGRIST:

Came back —

BUGA:

I don't know —

SIGRIST:

— to where?

BUGA:

Well, to S — we came back to South River.

SIGRIST:

So from New York, you came to South —

BUGA:

From New York they c — South River. And I don't know how we came. We must have come on the — how did we come? I don't know if —

SIGRIST:

Train?

BUGA:

We might have come back through the St. George Ferry and — and Tottenville and — and the train there and all that. And then we stayed with aunt, this aunt that had come out with my mother.

SIGRIST:

Is that Ida?

BUGA:

Had a — not Ida. The — Elizabeth. Elizabeth was living up near where the Mid State [PH] Mall is, where — when you came in — well, where you came in from 18 on Prospect Street, there's a — now, there's a tavern there. But back of that was a house, which is not there anymore. She was living there.

SIGRIST:

And that's where you [unclear] the first night?

BUGA:

We stayed there. Well, we stayed there for, oh, I don't know, a couple of months until, immediately, my father, again, started to build a hou — or have a house built back — that was back of the church. And there again, he — we were the first house on — in that par — that was all — all just open land. All through here, this was all open land even when we built here.

SIGRIST:

Well —

BUGA:

And my mother b — I mean, that was built, like, in 1924, at the end of 1924. And so within a — maybe about six months that we stayed with my aunt, and we didn't have any central heating, because I remember that when we woke up in the morning, if you had a glass of water, it was ice, frozen ice. So [chuckles] it wasn't that, you know, pleasant but everybody survived.

SIGRIST:

Tell me in a — we've got about 15 minutes left.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

Tell me about what it was like to sort of reintroduce yourself to — to being in America.

BUGA:

Well, first of all, when I went to school, I didn't know a word of English. So, you know, that was kind of bad because —

SIGRIST:

How long were you here before you went back into school?

BUGA:

Oh, we — right away, they entered me in school. I — in January, I entered school ri — immediately. As soon as school opened up after the holidays, I guess, I was back in school and it was Lincoln School down there. I think it must have been in fourth grade that I was in. I — I was, like — like a year older than the other kids were. I didn't know any English and I had a very sweet teacher. She was very kind to me. I didn't want to do any reading, naturally. I didn't want to do any of these things that you had to do. And she was very kind. She let me go. The only thing is, I didn't learn anything. Now, very luckily, at that time, they had midterm promotions, which they don't have anymore.

SIGRIST:

And what is that?

BUGA:

Well, they would have a — a — a grade 6A and a 6B. And at — and in the middle of the year, because some — at that time, some people entered school like I entered in January too, in January. [chuckles] So that meant that you would be going — if you entered, like, into A, now you'd be having a — you'd en — although I think they had graduation, like in January, which they don't do any longer. They had grades A and — A and B. So they had a — a midterm promotion there. And I was sent — in fact, I was sent to another school at the other end of the town, practically, and that teacher was not that kind to me. She made me do things. And within a very short time, of course, English came back to me at once. But I was — my sister stayed in this school, which is down over here by the pond, and I was sent to the school at the other end of the town. And I always said that, "I guess it's because my parents did not know enough to protest that I had to go," because we — well, it was quite a distance from where we lived. I mean, at that time, we were still living up — staying with my aunt. So —

SIGRIST:

Do you remember some of the first words that kind of flicked back in —

BUGA:

Yes. I didn't know the meaning of yes, even. The word, yes, I remember thinking that, 'Gee, it's terrible. I don't even know the word, yes, the meaning of yes.' But it all came back very fast. And then, because of this midterm promotion, I had to go to summer school one year and — when it was the seventh grade, I had to go to summer school to make up so that I would have the eighth grade, a complete year from September to [unclear], except that in that I had teachers — well, the principal was a teacher. In fact, two principals, I think, were the teachers for the summer school. And they were very smart. I was good in math. So who did their markings thing and all? But I did. They made me do the marks — marks for the kids, averaging marks and everything [chuckles] and that thing.

SIGRIST:

What about your sister? How about her adaptation to school?

BUGA:

Well, my sister, as I said, she was a — a sickly child. She had a lot of things that — that was wrong with her from the beginning. And she did not finish high school because she — she was getting — well, I don't know, she had almost like passing out in school a c — a number of times until my mother finally, you know, decided that, you know, she was worried about her and all that. She wanted to really keep her with her as far as that goes. Now, she has gone through life with all kinds of things. At the moment, she's in a nursing home. She and her husband are both in a nursing home. She's been there now for three years and she's two years younger than I am. And — but she's had so many things wrong with her.

SIGRIST:

So at that time —

BUGA:

She already was picking — she picked up everything. Ev — I'd pick up minor cases from her but she got everything very bad.

SIGRIST:

How did that affect her —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— ability to — to go to school and learn?

BUGA:

Well, she was — s — both of us were very good students. Both of us were A students, you know, so —

SIGRIST:

So she stayed in school.

BUGA:

So she — she was in there until she was about a sophomore and then she had — my mother was worried about a number of attacks that she's had. And, well, I don't know what they really — she's had — I don't know, she had so many things really wrong with her and that thing. Otherwise, you know, she looked healthy and all that. But eventually, she developed — when she was quite young, she had a very bad case of — with arthritis where she was really — she spent her time doctoring and at the rehabilitation place and — and doing exercising. And she was really on crutches and everything else. I mean, that — it was very, very bad and then she went into remission. But because of the — all the steroids that she got as treatment, the doctor told her —

SIGRIST:

This is much later on —

BUGA:

Yes. Oh, yes, yes.

SIGRIST:

Ah.

BUGA:

And that thing.

SIGRIST:

Tell me a little bit about your mother's reintroduction [chuckles] to America. Of course, she was sad to —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— leave her mother and father.

BUGA:

Well, she got down to business when we came to — [chuckles] came to America.

SIGRIST:

Did she get a job when she got back?

BUGA:

Yes, she did. She began — she worked in the — by that time, the sewing factories were very active in South River and she —

SIGRIST:

Can you talk about her job in the sewing factory?

BUGA:

— in that thing. Well, she went — well, first, she went — she was working in the — well, I think that was before she went to Europe. I think by that time the cigar factory was gone. Anyway, she worked in — I guess most of the time she worked in a factory there where they made — what did they make anyway? Oh, I guess they were making housecoats and pajamas and things like that. It was a Sigel factory.

SIGRIST:

Sigel?

BUGA:

And — Sigel. S-I-G-E-L. They had quite a big factory there. A number of people worked there. But there were a lot of factories in — in town. But she worked in that one practically all her life. Meanwhile, I, when I was going to high school — in fact, when I was going to eighth grade already too, I worked in the summertime in these factories. Of course, I had to lie to them that I'm only going to be there for the summer, so I had to go to another factory the next summer. But I pretty well covered a lot of the factories where I worked during the summer. But after a while it was after school too and I — at one of them, I was doing bookkeeping and making out the payroll and the paycheck and everything else. These people knew how to — you know, for $5 a week, they knew how to get the most out of you, as far as that goes. So I worked right on through, all summers, from the eighth grade on in most of the factories, in different factories at different times.

SIGRIST:

And what did you do with the money that you earned?

BUGA:

Oh, that was my parents' money. It was not my money. Oh, no. That had to be given to the parent. I mean, there was no question that this was my fo — my whole $5, that, you know, you had to put in a — a full day's work for — for a week.

SIGRIST:

Were you allowed to keep a portion of your money?

BUGA:

You know, when I was in high school, my allowance, I think, was like 25 cents a day. Now, that didn't cover very much. I remember once, I think we got a dime to go down to the circus, which was at the other end of the town. And we got there. I think the circus was ready to close up and leave, to begin with, number one. Second of all, our dime went to buy what they called soft ice cream. And that's another thing, since this day, I can't stand. So the two of us had a dime between us. I think we got one cone of — of this soft ice cream. And I think they had a lot of flour or something in it. That's what it tasted like. We threw it away. There went our — our dime. And there went my desire for soft ice cream. I've never eaten soft [chuckles] ice cream since. So money did not come very easily —

SIGRIST:

I —

BUGA:

— then.

SIGRIST:

My — my point for asking that was —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— I was wondering if there was something that you remember to this day —

BUGA:

That —

SIGRIST:

— buying with the money that you earned —

BUGA:

I did not — no, I did not have — I mean, anything that we — my — I don't know. I — I — my mother, as I said, was very frugal. She worked. My father worked. But we always managed. Every holiday, every Easter, every Christmas, we always had new shoes, a new hat and a new dress — well, sometimes, my mother made the dress — and a new coat, which was more than — I said later on when I was able to do it, I didn't do. [chuckles] But then we always — we always had a new outfit [unclear].

SIGRIST:

Do you remember your family sending anything back to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

Later on, yes, they sent — we sent packages to Czechoslova — but, you know, they got to be very fussy. They wanted only brand new things and it got to be very e — because you could — to the other places, you could send, like, you know, well used things.

SIGRIST:

I mean —

BUGA:

But —

SIGRIST:

— to your family, specifically. To the family members.

BUGA:

But the — well, to the fam — oh, I'm — this would go to the family —

SIGRIST:

I see.

BUGA:

— members. I mean, the uncle that we had there and, of course, at that time my grandmother and grandfather were still living there. We — yes, we did send packages but —

SIGRIST:

But they got fussy about it.

BUGA:

Ah, the — no, not they, but the — the — the government. The Czechoslovak government got to be very fussy.

SIGRIST:

I see.

BUGA:

They would not allow anything but it had to be brand new, everything, and it got to be very expensive. But we did send a number. And also, a lot of things were missing once the packages arrived there. Where they were taken out, they don't know. Whether it was taken out in Customs or wherever it was, but a lot of things, because they would write down what was in the packages. There used to be a local place here that sent packages to — well, through Russia and all that. And — but after a while, it got to be very, very expensive. I mean, a small package would be, like, a hundred — a hundred fifty dollars and all and — and they felt that, plus what they bought, all in — in fact, at one time, I remember that one of my cousins wanted material for a wedding gown. So we bought satin or things like that and that was sent to them and all these things. No, these all went to the family members because — in that thing.

SIGRIST:

So you were maintaining connections with —

BUGA:

Oh, yes. Well — well, we had letters dow — right down to — until that last letter that my — because they finally were writing to my sister. They, of course, wrote letters to my mother but after my mother died, then they wrote to my sister. I didn't correspond with them. I'm — I'm terrible. I didn't correspond. But my sister did and they did write to them. In f —

SIGRIST:

Did your mother ever want to go back to Czechoslovakia?

BUGA:

I think that she would have wanted to, yes. I think that she never really gave up —

SIGRIST:

Did she ever have an opportunity even to go back to visit?

BUGA:

No, she didn't. No, no.

SIGRIST:

No.

BUGA:

No, not after that.

SIGRIST:

I have five minutes left and I know that —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— you were a schoolteacher.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

And I want to ask you a few questions about that.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

But first, let me ask, what year did you get married?

BUGA:

1938 or '39.

SIGRIST:

And the gentleman's name that you married?

BUGA:

Michael B-U-G-A.

SIGRIST:

Buga.

BUGA:

Yeah, Michael.

SIGRIST:

And —

BUGA:

He was born in Europe, too.

SIGRIST:

Where was he born?

BUGA:

In — well, I don't — the — the name of the place was Chaslos [PH]. And don't ask me to spell it. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

Well, what —

BUGA:

You see —

SIGRIST:

— country or region —

BUGA:

Well, it was a — it was — it was the —

SIGRIST:

Austria [unclear].

BUGA:

— originally, Hungary.

SIGRIST:

Hungary.

BUGA:

Taken over by Russia, you know, that — that part there.

SIGRIST:

And did you have children?

BUGA:

But he — I have one daughter.

SIGRIST:

And her name?

BUGA:

Diane, and she lives in Toronto, Canada. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

That's a pretty city.

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

[chuckles]

BUGA:

It is very pretty, yes. We've been up there a number of times.

SIGRIST:

I've got just a few minutes and I'd like —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— for you to talk a little bit about being a schoolteacher.

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

And I'd like you to — how many years did you teach?

BUGA:

Forty years.

SIGRIST:

And I — can you talk a little bit about —

BUGA:

What —

SIGRIST:

— how your experience as —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— as a — an immigrant child, in a way — I realize you were born here.

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

How your experience in school —

BUGA:

Hmm.

SIGRIST:

— colored your —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— experiences as a teacher.

BUGA:

Well, I was a very conscientious teacher. I had people who threw bouquets at me and I had people who throw bricks at me, people who, to this very day, you know, say how wonderful, you know, they feel and how glad that they were that I had them. I was — I was rather strict. I don't think I was mean but I expected a lot from people and I got a lot from people, because I expected a lot from people. I did not have any — even though by that time, you know, problems were creeping up in the schools and all, but I never had those problems. Somehow, they knew that they weren't going to get away with it. So I never had any discipline problems or anything like that. So —

SIGRIST:

I guess I was wondering that you — be — because of your own difficulties initially —

BUGA:

[unclear], yeah.

SIGRIST:

— when you went into American —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— school, if that gave you any kind of unique insight —

BUGA:

In the —

SIGRIST:

— into —

BUGA:

Well, I —

SIGRIST:

— teaching or —

BUGA:

I tried to be — I tried to be understanding. I tried to — to get them to get the importance of learning and all this. And one day, we would have discussions. I t — I tried to understand, as I — I had experienced some of the kindergarten, which I was drafted into, through the eighth grade, mostly in the sixth grade, though. But it was funny because one Chr — one Halloween, when the children come around, you know, collecting tricks or treating, So one little girl says to me, "Oh, gee." She says she remem — she remembers me, she says, so much because I let them talk in — in school, when I thought to myself, 'Gee, that doesn't sound right.' [chuckles] I didn't really let them, you know, just go away and talk in school. But what she meant is we would get down and talk, that, "How are you getting along with your brother, sisters? Are you getting an allowance? Should you get an allowance?" And — and you know, problems that were created. And we would take sessions like that. Now, she remembered that, you know, as — as something that she really thought was wonderful, that we taught. And we did. We tried to get into [sniffs] understanding people, you know, that people have problems. "Do you have problems, you know, and what can you do about it?" And things like that. So, as I said that I — I don't know. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

How do you think your life would have been different if your parents had stayed in Czechoslovakia?

BIGA:

Well —

SIGRIST:

And what would have happened to you?

BUGA:

I suppose I would just be another one of the people living there [chuckles] as far as that goes. And I don't know, really, what — I probably would just be another person struggling along, most likely, although I don't know. I — as I said, over there too, I — I was good in math and I enjoyed reading and all that, so I may have worked out something to — because some members of our family did become teachers even there. So I probably could have worked that out there too, as far as that goes.

SIGRIST:

What did you do in your life that you're the most proud of?

BUGA:

Oh, I don't know. [chuckles] I don't know if I'm proud of anything.

SIGRIST:

Oh [chuckles] —

BUGA:

I — I don't know. I — I — well, I suppose I should be proud of that I've gone through a lot of my pupils, who've turned out so well, that they've become teachers and principals and doctors. On the other hand, I was very sad when some of them turned out very unhappily, and some of them did. But a lot of them have — a lot of them have become teachers and sometimes they credit with me. And I'll tell you, a lot of times when I meet some of my former pupils, I don't even recognize them because, after all they were little kids when I had them. They've changed a lot. I haven't changed that much. And they're cashiers in the store or something like that, you know, and they'll come up to me and — or we go to a church affair or somehow, they'll come up to me and hug me, even some of the little colored people. Maybe I shouldn't say that on the thing. But anyway, they come up and, you know, and they hug me and kiss me and all that. And some of them really weren't that successful in school, but I got along very well with them as far as that goes. I — we don't have that big of a population here but I — I felt that I really got along with them very well and that thing.

SIGRIST:

Great. Mrs. Buga, that's —

BUGA:

Yeah.

SIGRIST:

— probably a good place for us to end.

BUGA:

[laughs]

SIGRIST:

We've been talking for two solid —

BUGA:

Yeah. [chuckles]

SIGRIST:

— hours now. I want to thank you very much.

BUGA:

Oh —

SIGRIST:

There was —

BUGA:

Well —

SIGRIST:

— great information in this interview.

BUGA:

Well, I don't know whether anybody'll f — find anything enjoyable but —

SIGRIST:

Let me just sign off.

BUGA:

[unclear].

SIGRIST:

This is Paul Sigrist signing off with Irene Buga on Monday, September 29 th , 1997 —

BUGA:

Mmm.

SIGRIST:

— in South River, New Jersey.

BUGA:

South River, New Jersey, yeah. [END OF INTERVIEW]