DALLETT:

My name is Nancy Dallett, and I'm speaking with Emmerich Gorozdos on Thursday, December 19, 1985. We are beginning this interview at 2:05 PM and we're about to interview Mr. Gorozdos about his immigration experience from Austria in 1921. This is the beginning of Interview Number 113, side one. Why didn't we start back at the beginning, and could you tell me where and when you were born?

GOROZDOS:

I was born in Vienna, Austria on March 3, 1903.

DALLETT:

Can you tell me a bit about your family life in Vienna? What did your father do there?

GOROZDOS:

My father was a streetcar motorman in Vienna. I went through five grades of elementary school and three grades of citizen school, equivalent to our high school here. And then I started to work as an apprentice at a large bank in Vienna called Wienerbankverein. The war started in 1914, so at time I started to work for the bank. We were in the midst of the war. Most of the men were in the service. And we, practically children had to carry on the banking business. I was a receiving teller. I was making stock exchange transactions. I was, uh, uh, errand boy.

DALLETT:

How old were you at this time?

GOROZDOS:

Fifteen.

DALLETT:

And you, and you were carrying on this business?

GOROZDOS:

Carrying on this business. I went to, I worked in a branch bank, and our main office was about a mile away. I went to the main office, picked up large sums of money, carried it in a big bag back to the bank and there was no question asked about any crime, any robbery or anything.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. They just needed, they needed your service.

GOROZDOS:

And, uh, after the war my, uh, uncle who worked for, as a chauffeur for a small packing house in Chicago for a man named Carl Buhle [PH]. And he talked to this man about our situation in Vienna and, uh, he sent us a large box, in fact about three hundred pounds of canned meat and canned milk and, uh, we were so happy to receive that and I wrote him a letter thanking him for it. And he said to my uncle, "Why don't they get this boy over here?" Which started my, my immigration. But it took about another year before the final papers came through. And, uh--

DALLETT:

Before we go on to, uh, coming to this country, just to fill in a few details about life in, in Vienna. Can you tell me, had your father been drafted into the war effort?

GOROZDOS:

My father was drafted, but then he was exempt, because he was an instructor to mostly women running streetcars. So he was exempt, and somehow, uh, he, uh, did not have to go into service.

DALLETT:

Okay. And you mentioned in this, uh, in this letter that I read that you had, uh, seen the funeral of Franz Joseph.

GOROZDOS:

Yes.

DALLETT:

Can you tell me a bit about that?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, yeah. Franz Joseph died in 1916 and, uh, we lived, uh, close by the, his residence. And we just had to walk about a block for the funeral procession. It was very serious. People were crying, because they all loved the kaiser. We, we were brought up, you know, to respect him. In fact, our school started every day praying for the kaiser. He was eighty-six years old, and we all loved him and people were crying. And, uh, they had all the, the, we had gas lights on the streets. They took all the, the chimney off and had open flames on the street. And then, after that, things got very bad.

DALLETT:

After his death.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. After his death, because, uh, whoever took over was not too popular and, uh, the monarchy started to crumble. Austria had a population of forty million. That included Czechoslovakia and the Yugoslavs and, uh Bohemia, and Croatia and Moravia and, uh, all that was done away with and Austria became a country of six million people with Vienna having two million. And somehow everybody hated Vienna because they figured they started World War One by declaring war on Serbia and dragging the whole world into it. So, uh, they actually starved us. You couldn't go to the country and, uh, and, uh, get food. They would stop you coming into the city, and take it away from you. We were really starving. We, uh, took the barks off the trees and ground them up and tried to make bread out of it. I've seen people collapse on the street. I've seen horses fall down and die from starvation. So when I had the opportunity to come to this country I was, I grabbed it immediately. But I asked, though, if my sister could come along. My sister was about two years my, uh, senior and, uh, she came along.

DALLETT:

Now, what was it that you had said in this letter to this, to this man, that made him feel that you should come to America? Do you remember how you thanked him for, for the package he sent?

GOROZDOS:

Well, I wrote him that, uh, how we appreciated the food he sent and, uh, then he told my uncle to, I should come to America. But in the meantime, somehow, I didn't get the opportunity to work for him because, in the meantime, my aunt, she objected to the idea that my uncle was a chauffeur and had to be available all hours of the day and, uh, somehow they split up. And I came over here and I couldn't even see him. But later on I met him and I, I thanked him again personally. And he said, "Well, you have a good job. I had intentions of having you work for me, but you have a good job and I don't want to disturb your life." And this Mr. Buhle later bought for his sons the Victor Adding Machine, which is a large company nearby.

DALLETT:

Hmm. So at that point in time when you were, uh, working in this bank, uh, you were pulled out of school to do that, or had you, had you finished your schooling then?

GOROZDOS:

I finished my formal education. In Austria in those days at the age of fourteen you finish your formal education. But then you had to go to a, a trade school. In my case it was banking. I had to have special training in banking. I know the history of banking since, since Christ was born. (They laugh.) And I always wanted to get a job here in a bank, but they wouldn't have me.

DALLETT:

Uh, you mentioned before that, uh, that you were ill at some point before you came to this country. What happened?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. I guess, you know, with all this exhaustion, the, uh, hardship of the trip and going through, everything. It was, it was February, it's cold in New York, too, and we were sleeping, not on board ship, we were sleeping in railhouses.

DALLETT:

I'm sorry, I meant the period before you came to this country. Uh, did you have appendicitis at that point and were you hospitalized before you came to this country from illness?

GOROZDOS:

Uh, yes. I was finished school in, uh, 1917. I had an appendix operation. I, uh, I was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance, put into a big ward, you know, with about fifty people and, uh, operated on immediately. And then, uh, about ten days later I was released from the hospital and, uh, I knew it was the end of school and I wanted to go and, uh, go back to school to see everybody, but they came out already and said, "Everything is all over." You know, they, they praised you, and they had a lot of good words for you and that's all.

DALLETT:

So then what happened next? How did you make those arrangements, uh, once your, you got the letter saying you should come to this country?

GOROZDOS:

Oh. Well, I went to the, uh, American Consulate and, uh, requested, uh, a visa and, uh, they, uh, said I had to wait until my uncle sends through the papers, the affidavit of support and when that came I still had to wait. And finally it came through. It was about a year from the, from the time I started off.

DALLETT:

And you were getting papers for you and your sister?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

Your sister was planning to come with you?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

Uh, then what happened after that?

GOROZDOS:

Well, I still worked at the bank taking inventory on January 1st. We had a, in that branch we had about ten thousand accounts. We had to do everything manually. Longhand, no computers, no adding machines. And I figured out the interest on ten thousand accounts, working all night. And that was the end of my banking business. Then I quit and then, then, uh, we finally got notice that we, uh, trip was arranged, but there was no ship picked. We could come to Holland and, uh, at the border of Germany to Holland there's a little town called Emmerich. So you see--

DALLETT:

Like in our name.

GOROZDOS:

Emmerich plays a big part in my life. So, uh, we got out and they put us into barracks to take showers and, uh, got a louse card and then they put us on closed trunks, trucks, like the army trucks and sent us to Rotterdam. We couldn't see anything of Holland at all. We were like prisoners of war. When we got to Rotterdam we finally, uh, saw the light and there, too, we were inspected every day and we still didn't know what ship we would be on. And then we finally got the, got word that there's a ship, Ryndam.

DALLETT:

Now, how would, how did your father and mother feel about your, your going away with your sister? Were they pleased to send you to this country, or--

GOROZDOS:

Well, you know, things were different in those days. When you were fourteen years old you were practically on your own. When you were fourteen years old you were on your own. So they figured their responsibility is over.

DALLETT:

Did they consider, consider at all coming to America?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, yes. No, No. Themselves, no. They had no-- My mother wouldn't think of it. Not even for a visit. She was afraid of, uh, of ships, first of all. In 1912 the Titanic, the unsinkable Titanic, went down. And that was enough for anybody.

DALLETT:

Were you frightened then?

GOROZDOS:

No, I, I always said if I should die I hope I die on a sinking ship because I love the ocean.

DALLETT:

Uh, do you remember what you were traveling with? What did you bring from home? What did you and your sister carry with you to make the trip?

GOROZDOS:

A very old fashioned straw suitcase which, uh, my aunt wouldn't even want us to bring into the house. We had to leave it in the basement.

DALLETT:

And did you have to spend a while in Rotterdam? How long was that before the Rydam was picked as your ship?

GOROZDOS:

About, uh, three days.

DALLETT:

Three days, uh-huh. And they kept inspecting you, did you say?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. They were inspecting us every day there.

DALLETT:

And what did they do? Did they check your eyes, or--

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. Yeah, they checked your eyes, and they checked your hair and everybody was combing and combing hair like, like you see those monkeys, you know, sometimes, picking--

DALLETT:

And were they shaving people's heads?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. They shaved my head.

DALLETT:

And your sister's too?

GOROZDOS:

No.

DALLETT:

Not your sister's.

GOROZDOS:

No. Not the sister.

DALLETT:

What do you remember about, about the Ryndam, about the crossing itself?

GOROZDOS:

The crossing? I enjoyed the crossing very much because, as I said, it was my first experience with the ocean and, uh, I loved it and I spent a lot of time on deck. And, uh, the food was very bad. Mostly oily fish and, and, uh, and, as I mentioned, you know, the, during the night I saw rats running around the rafters and, uh, people were very unhappy on board ship. But us being young, you know, we laughed it off with other young people and we, we thought it was a lot of fun.

DALLETT:

And you weren't sick from. on the boat. No.

GOROZDOS:

No. Nothing. No, nothing.

DALLETT:

Do you remember what, uh, where they had you sleep? What the sleeping quarters were like?

GOROZDOS:

The sleeping quarters were, uh, like bunks and, uh, on the sides there it seems to me water came up and you had something, uh, a sweater or something, you know, that fell down on the side, you know, it was all wet.

DALLETT:

Do you have any recollection how much it cost to purchase those tickets to come?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. It was ninety dollars from Vienna to Chicago.

DALLETT:

Oh, it included your trains?

GOROZDOS:

That included all the train fares in Austria, into Holland and also the train fare from New York to Chicago.

DALLETT:

And how long did the trip take?

GOROZDOS:

Well, the, the boat trip took about two weeks, and then there was a three day delay on Ellis Island and the train ride took about sixteen hours on the Baltimore and the Ohio.

DALLETT:

Do you remember, uh, when you came into the harbor, when you landed in New York?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Our first emotional impression was the Statue of Liberty because we heard so much about it. Today when people come to this country as immigrants they don't even know where the Statue of Liberty is, except now they get a lot of publicity, you know. But we got the publicity sixty-five years ago.

DALLETT:

And what, what did you hear about it? What did you expect it would look like, and what did it mean to see it?

GOROZDOS:

Well, we had, we'd seen pictures and things, yeah. So we knew what it looked like.

DALLETT:

And why is it that you had heard so much about it? Did it--

GOROZDOS:

Because it symbolized the freedom and, uh, that's what we mostly were looking forward to.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. And did you have mixed emotions when you, when you left your country?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, yes. Yeah.

DALLETT:

What was that like?

GOROZDOS:

Well, you see, the Austrians, especially the Viennese, express everything in songs. So we had farewell songs, right at the railroad station, you know, that said goodbye to the friends. So you sang some songs.

DALLETT:

And your friends came to see you off at the station?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Oh, yes. A lot of people.

DALLETT:

And did you, did you hope that some of those friends might come to this country, or were you thinking you would say goodbye to them for the last time?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, at that time you, you really didn't think that anybody, for anybody, would be possible to come to this country. You got trouble with your eyes? (Mr. Gorozdos is addressing his wife.)

MRS. GOROZDOS:

No, no. I have trouble hearing.

DALLETT:

Uh, okay. So now we're up to the point where, where you're coming to Ellis Island, yeah?

GOROZDOS:

So, uh, we approached Ellis Island with mixed emotions, because we heard so much about it that people would get rejected and, and, uh, some of them commit suicide on account of it, and we just didn't know what-- Of course, we never thought of committing suicide. We figured if we got rejected we'd get a ride back home, you know. So, uh, but, uh, when our ferry boat landed on Ellis Island, a few passengers were taken off, taken inside, and then they came back rejected. The whole ferry boat had to go back to the ship. The same thing happened the next day.

DALLETT:

Why? Why were they rejected?

GOROZDOS:

Because they found, uh, first few that they examined they found that they had lice. So they were rejected.

DALLETT:

And they rejected the whole boat because some people--

GOROZDOS:

Oh, yeah. The whole boat was rejected on account of that, yeah. So this happened a second time. And a third time we were admitted.

DALLETT:

So, did it happen once a day, and you were waiting on the ship for three days? GOROZDOS; Yeah. You had to wait a whole day, yeah. Because they, uh, you know, they made, uh, they made arrangements on ship. They, for instance, they took all our clothes, put it in an oven and heated it and then, uh, had to, uh, put your clothes back on and go, uh, go, uh, a second time.

DALLETT:

And this is, this is while you were on the ship, they, they took your things into Ellis Island?

GOROZDOS:

While we were on the ship, yeah. Somebody showed us the headlines of a German newspaper which said that the ship was quarantined. It was supposed to be going back already but it was held up on account of this trouble.

DALLETT:

So even though you had this card, this medical card, that was issued in Rotterdam that said this, this, uh, delousing card, or whatever, it didn't matter. You still couldn't come in.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah, yeah. So, when we finally got admitted on Ellis Island I was very much pleased because it was a nice, clean place. My, my objections in going to a place, I judge it by the washrooms, you know. The washrooms were so clean and, uh, so we felt very happy. And then we got a meal. Actually, it wasn't much of a meal, but it tasted good. It was clean. It was a ham sandwich on white bread, which we hadn't had for I don't know how many years.

DALLETT:

Did the bread taste different to you?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

You were used to a heavier Austrian sort of bread, or--

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. So, uh, and then, as I mentioned before, when I, uh, when I went through the, uh, examinations, the questioning, they asked me what I will do in America. I said, "I don't know yet, but I'll do anything. If necessary, I'll sweep the streets."

DALLETT:

What languages were you speaking?

GOROZDOS:

German.

DALLETT:

German. And what language were the officials speaking?

GOROZDOS:

They were speaking German. They took German speaking officials for the German group.

DALLETT:

Okay. What other questions were they asking you? Whether you had a job--

GOROZDOS:

Yeah, whether you had a job. In those days it was not permissible to contract for a job beforehand which, I didn't. So I truthfully could tell them that I had no, no job lined up. That I would be willing to do anything except, you know, that I am an office man, but as long as I don't speak the language I will, you know, I will do anything that, uh, any manual labor.

DALLETT:

Were you hopeful, at that point, that you would maybe find work through your uncle in Chicago, right? You were planning to come here.

GOROZDOS:

I, I really didn't put, uh, too much weight on that idea. I figured I'm sure I'm going to get through somehow.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. What other kinds of questions did they ask you? Do you remember anything else? Did they ask you whether you had money with you to support you?

GOROZDOS:

They asked me, it was a rule you had to have twenty-five dollars. And I didn't have any money. So I, I told them I had twenty-five dollars. They were satisfied with that. And the next person after me was also a young man from Vienna and, uh, he was asked how much money he had and he said, "Thirty dollars." And the fellow that examined him asked him to count it out. So he had to count it out. And I thought, "Oh, my gosh, now my sister is coming through and what will she say." So I wrote her a note and showed it through the window. I saw her in line there. And told her that when she, when they ask her, she should say that my brother had the money.

DALLETT:

So you were lucky that they just didn't ask you to count it out?

GOROZDOS:

A big liar.

DALLETT:

Very clever. Very clever.

GOROZDOS:

Then I asked this fellow, because we, we knew that we had a long trip to Chicago, and we didn't have anything to eat, so I asked him if he could borrow me, if he could loan me three dollars for two lunch boxes, which were a dollar fifty each.

DALLETT:

This is the end of side one of Interview Number 113, with Emmerich Gorozdos. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

DALLETT:

This is the beginning of side two of Interview Number 113, with Emmerich Gorozdos. Uh, any other details you can fill in about Ellis Island, the building itself? You mentioned the washrooms being clean.

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Well, I remember the buildings vividly from the outside and also from the inside, the staircases and going up the stairway overlooking the entire first floor with all the partitions, where the people were coming in.

DALLETT:

Did you have to move through those partitions?

GOROZDOS:

Yes.

DALLETT:

And is that where you were asked questions?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Yeah. They, uh, they separate you according to languages. Whoever interviews you, you know, speaks your language. So we--

DALLETT:

So did they put some sort of tag on you, or how did they identify, how did you know where to go?

GOROZDOS:

No, they, they didn't put any tags on you, but somehow they made it pretty clear, they made it understood, you know, that where you have to go.

DALLETT:

And did you have to have another physical examination at Ellis Island?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. You had another physical examination.

DALLETT:

Tell me about that. What did they do to you?

GOROZDOS:

Not much. They looked in your throat. They looked in your eyes and, uh, uh, not too much. They didn't even take your blood pressure or stuff like that. Because, I imagine, everybody had high blood pressure.

DALLETT:

And how long a time, you said you were on the boat for three days outside of Ellis Island, how long did you spend at Ellis Island, inside?

GOROZDOS:

Inside, maybe about eight hours.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. And did they feed you? That was where you had the ham sandwich you mentioned? Do you remember where that was in the building, or what it looked like there?

GOROZDOS:

No, I can't really say where the, I think you, you stood in line, like in a cafeteria style, you know. And, uh, and you got your plate.

DALLETT:

Okay. Uh, so did you have an address where you were going to wind up in Chicago?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

And do you remember how you got from Ellis Island? Did you take a ferry over to New York, and then--

GOROZDOS:

Uh, I think it was Hoboken.

DALLETT:

To Hoboken.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. Take a ferry to Hoboken, and there was the train lined up already and, and, uh, we got on the train.

DALLETT:

And which line was that? Which train was it?

GOROZDOS:

Baltimore & Ohio.

DALLETT:

Baltimore & Ohio. Uh, so you could find your way pretty easily. You didn't get lost in all of that?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

Anything, any recollections about what it was like to leave Ellis Island once you had come through the exam and, and the questions?

GOROZDOS:

No. But, uh, I was thinking about, you know, how rumors go, that, uh, you really can't believe what people say and what you most feared was, didn't materialize at all.

DALLETT:

So you must have been very relieved at that point.

GOROZDOS:

That's right. Yeah.

DALLETT:

And your sister, did she have any trouble, any trouble, on Ellis Island?

GOROZDOS:

No. No trouble at all.

DALLETT:

Okay. Tell me about, uh, do you remember that, that first train trip you took, then, to come out to Ohio? Anything about that long sixteen hour train trip?

GOROZDOS:

Sixteen hour train, yeah.

DALLETT:

Anything eventful happen along the way?

GOROZDOS:

No, not when we went, no, we went, of course, you know, as you go by trains you go through the, uh, most industrial places and, uh, it made an impression on me that everything is working, everything is steaming, you know, And, uh, so I figured, well, this is good company to be in.

DALLETT:

How about your arrival in Chicago? Did your uncle meet you at the other end?

GOROZDOS:

Somebody helped us at the station to call up my uncle and, uh, they told me not to go out on the street. I said, "Why?" "Because they hit you over the head." So, you see, even in those days Chicago had some reputation, huh. (They laugh.) But, uh, we had no problems. My aunt came and she, uh, took us to 1210 Newport Avenue.

DALLETT:

That's where your aunt and uncle were living?

GOROZDOS:

Uh-huh. 1210 Newport Avenue.

DALLETT:

And that was where, your first home, then.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. Then, uh, the first three days I hardly remember at all. I must have had, I must have had high fever, delirious, or something. I just knew that my other uncles came and, uh, wanted to see me and children came and looked at me and I was in a daze.

DALLETT:

Oh. Maybe from the strain of the whole long trip you had made. Yeah.

GOROZDOS:

But then, about a week later, I was told to apply for a job with some German speaking man as his private secretary and, uh, it was a small company called Pabst, Pabst Chemical Company. And he had a lot of relatives in Germany and he kept up a correspondence with them, and I knew shorthand, German shorthand and, uh, I took over. And then I gradually worked myself into his business. I was typing letters without knowing what I'm typing but I just, from a copy, you know. I kept on typing from copy. And, uh, then, later on, I became a salesman. I traveled all over the country for that.

DALLETT:

It was on that job that you learned, you learned English.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. My first job. I worked there for twenty years.

DALLETT:

And how did you pick up your English? Just by working with people?

GOROZDOS:

Then when I got, uh, my citizen papers, in 1927, I became a citizen. I took the very first opportunity to, to become a citizen.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. And what was it like in the beginning when you first got your job? Uh, after a week you already had a job. Were you homesick, or did you, did you like what you had seen?

GOROZDOS:

I was homesick. I was home sick. Very much.

DALLETT:

You missed your family?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. And, you know, in those days, it took a month to get an answer to a letter. So, uh, you wouldn't think of calling up anybody on the telephone. DALLETT; So did you keep writing home?

GOROZDOS:

Kept on writing. I wrote letters every day. I wrote to my girl every day.

DALLETT:

Who's now your wife here.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah.

DALLETT:

Did you arrange for, for her to come over, then?

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. I arranged for her to come over. As soon as, uh, as soon as we, my sister and I applied for our first papers, for our first citizen papers, so we were eligible to sponsor somebody. And then I, uh, sent for her.

DALLETT:

So you were going to sponsor your girlfriend.

GOROZDOS:

And she came. Of course, conditions were a lot better, traveling. She didn't have that hardship going on the ship, and she just whizzed through Ellis Island, no, no particular. She had her twenty-five dollars, but somebody stole it on the ship.

MRS. GOROZDOS:

I think it was twenty dollars for me.

GOROZDOS:

Somebody stole it on her.

MRS. GOROZDOS:

I put it in a little box and out right on top of my bunk, you know. There was a little porthole. I put it right there. I never thought anybody would steal my money.

GOROZDOS:

So she arrived on February 14th, St. Valentine's Day.

DALLETT:

Which year was that, then?

GOROZDOS:

1923.

DALLETT:

1923. Did you have to talk her into coming, or was she anxious to come? GOROZDOS. I wrote her and I asked her, I says, "If you are willing to come, just send me a telegram." An d she sent the telegram, just two words, uh, "I'm agreeable." Something like that. And then I got started, and it didn't take too long for her to come here.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. In your letters to her, when you were telling her about what life was like, do you have any recollection of what might have made a big impression on you, what was your--

GOROZDOS:

Well, it made a, made a big impression on her the first, first thing she came, she looked for a job, she had no problem, looking for a job, because she was a trained dressmaker. And, uh, uh, she could see, on a day's wages she could buy a pair of shoes. While in Austria it took a month.

DALLETT:

And by the time she came you were, uh, able to help her to negotiate, because your English, you had already picked that up in the two years?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, of course, she had no, no problem picking up English. I think she spoke English faster than I. (He laughs.) And then we got married. Two months later we got married, April 1923. And, uh, one, two, three, we had three children. They're all college graduates. Our oldest is a school teacher, the second oldest is a, a registered nurse. You see her picture over there in uniform, she was a cadet nurse during the war, in Knoxville, Tennessee. And our son is a PhD degree in electrical engineering. He went to high school here and graduated at the top of the class. He went to the University of Illinois, four years he was an honor student. His name is engraved in the library. Now he is a professor at the Johns Hopkins University.

DALLETT:

Uh-huh. In Baltimore. Uh-huh.

GOROZDOS:

And, uh, he is very much involved in the space program. In fact, his work is on the space station now. He comes through Chicago quite often because he, he travels between, uh, Washington and California, and then he stops off by us.

DALLETT:

Did, did you ever make a trip back to Austria, or have your children been there?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. I made six trips back. First one was in 1948.

DALLETT:

Were you visiting your family then?

GOROZDOS:

Visited the family and visited the ruins of, the war ruins.

DALLETT:

So you, you had been living in this country for some--

GOROZDOS:

Sixty-five years. It will be sixty-five years next month.

DALLETT:

Was there ever a period where you thought your life would have been better had you lived, stayed in Austria?

GOROZDOS:

I'd say, yes, there was a period when you, when you wondered. Because, after all, you, you love your home, you know. Austria is beautiful. But, uh, since then we made enough trips back there to see, you know, that it, it wasn't so, that we did much better here. And our grandchildren certainly, our children, first of all, you know. Of course, our children went through the struggle that we had, too. But they, they made out all right.

DALLETT:

And have you ever been back to, to Ellis Island, or the Statue of Liberty?

GOROZDOS:

No, no. Well, we saw the Statue of Liberty. We saw Ellis Island, uh, we took two boat trips, '48 and in '58.

DALLETT:

What was it like to see that so many years later?

GOROZDOS:

Oh, it was beautiful compared to, they took her on a French ship, on an Italian ship and on a, on the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth.

DALLETT:

Uh, I really just have this one other question, and that is can you, can you tell me about some of the papers that you have. You showed me some very interesting papers. Can you just explain what some of these are? The National Park Service wants to know who has what kind of documents, and they'd be interested to hear about this.

GOROZDOS:

Oh. Actually I, I don't recall any documents except our own passports. DALLETT; You have your original passports here, yours and your wife's?

GOROZDOS:

Original passports. I don't recall any documents the, uh, the papers that you have to have, uh, affidavit of support, I don't, I don't recall. DALLETT; Any ship tickets or anything like that?

GOROZDOS:

No.

DALLETT:

Okay. But you have these original passports here. And how about this, this, uh, photocopy that you have. It's, uh, it's a list of, is it a list of everyone who was on that ship?

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Of course-- DALLETT; Just pertaining to information for you.

GOROZDOS:

Not everyone. I mean, just, just pertaining to our--

DALLETT:

Your names appeared there, and it shows the questions that might have been asked of you when you came in through Ellis Island. Okay. Maybe if we could just see what the title of this is. States immigration officer at port of arrival. Okay, so this would have been from the day you arrived at Ellis Island.

GOROZDOS:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think this is dated, uh, February 6th. DALLETT; Okay. Uh, that's really all I have to ask you, unless there's anything else at all that you just want to add.

GOROZDOS:

No. I just want to mention that as far as the family is concerned, you know, we are very proud and successful. Our oldest, uh, grandson is, uh, this is our oldest grandson. DALLETT; Vice President of, uh, Chase Manhattan Bank in New York.

GOROZDOS:

Chase Manhattan Ban. Yeah. He, he graduated in New York. Right now he is in London. He's coming in for Christmas to New Jersey to his family.

DALLETT:

You're very proud of your kids.

GOROZDOS:

Yes. Yeah. And he was, our oldest granddaughter, that's her. She is-- DALLETT; Getting a service award here. That's very nice. Okay, thank you very much for everything you've told us. This is the end of side two and the end of Interview Number 113 with Emmerich Gorozdos. And the time is three o;clock.