MR. APPLEBAUM:

This is Edward Applebaum and I'm speaking with Jenny Walman on Monday, June 16, 1986. We are beginning this interview at about twelve in the afternoon. We are about to interview Ms. Walman about her immigration experience from Russia in 1920. This is interview number 195. Jenny, can you tell me where and when you were born?

MS. WALMAN:

In 1902, in Russia, in [Padonya Kuberna], it's Ukraine, in the Ukraine. Ukrainian.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Can you spell the name of the town you were born in?

MS. WALMAN:

[. . .] In Russia, I spell in Yiddish. I can't--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Whichever one you want.

MS. WALMAN:

Yeah? [[Yshitz] is "y," I'll spell in English: Y-u- s-h-i-t-z and it comes near a big town, like a bigger town. This was a small shtetl. It's comes near [Komnitz], [Komnitz . . .] Kuberna. I try to spell it--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

It's okay. What kind of town was it to grow up in?

MS. WALMAN:

[Yshitz]. [Yshitz]. [Yshitz]. That's what it was. I really don't know history why they changed the name. If you want to know the history about the [Yshitz] [. . .] I can give it but I [. . .]

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Well, you can tell me more about what your childhood was like growing up then.

MS. WALMAN:

[. . .] a small town. The town, I wish I could brought again there. [. . .] a small child [. . .] If you're poor, you're [. . .] I grew up [. . .] to be a teenager, then the war broke out. 1914. And my parents and one of ten children, or eleven, my sister used to say, I was the last, but there was another one that died. When my-- [. . .] maybe I was eleven years old that my father--how shall I tell you? My father took sick. That's when my sister ran away to America, to make money before the world war, and to help to get [. . .] Anyhow, the war broke out, in 1914; she left. Why did she came to this country? She came here to make money to send home, so she couldn't even send a letter anymore. It was closed. Letters didn't come in. Money couldn't come in. And this is the way, my mother wasn't too well. I don't know how old they were. I don't think they were so old, but to a child, which she thinks she's a grandma to twelve years old, she thinks, well, that her parents are old. But anyhow, we did know there was [very good life here]--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What did you father do for a living?

MS. WALMAN:

My father was a Hebrew teacher. And when he took sick, he couldn't--he was paralyzed. His speech was affected. So, he couldn't teach. And the money from America didn't come in. And, but otherwise, [there was] the children, we were all married children, not me, I mean, I was the last one. But I don't remember even the children when they got married. But I guess my brothers [helped] to my sister that was married, they helped my mother to get along, all during the war, even though you did have money, in a small town, you didn't have much to eat.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Did they stay and live in the town after they got married, your broths and sisters?

MS. WALMAN:

No, no, no, they were scattered all around that little town where I was born. Only one brother lived with us, he had a big house, you know, but not money, not for needs to live.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What was the house like? Can you describe it?

MS. WALMAN:

Yeah. We had big dining room, big living room, and-- when my father was [. . .] so I don't know where they took the money, because [. . .] teaching everybody, but it was [. . .] I [. . .] my mother was a good dance teacher, she, but the house was about five rooms, let's say, in the house. And we had a small house; my brother lived in the back. He got [. . .] from his father. He was then a child to my father. That's all I know about my parents. And, this was all [. . .] is the house. And my mother was a very good--she made a meal from potatoes if she had some potato. She was a very good cook and a very good [. . .] She made a lot of [. . .] But that would be it. We used to help. I used to help a lot, but, sewing a little bit, that's all.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Did you have friends that you played with?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh my goodness, everybody [. . .] You never grow up alone. You grow up in the street, if you are about [. . .] we lived in comfortable street, I mean. I was the younger in my house, I had friends they were older from six children. They had six [smart] children, but I was, in my house, I was the youngest, the baby. And they were grown up already. So [. . .] because their father was young. My father was old, maybe about fifty or sixty years. And in those days, the child of twelve, thirteen years old--a man like that is an old man. Okay. So what else? [But] my life was[n't] good. I lived through the Revolution, then after the world war stopped, the Revolution came. [. . .] in the [. . .] you did not [. . .] where to buy, what to buy.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Was there fighting near your village during the war?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh my goodness. I was raised in [mory]. Do you know what [mory] is? Fear. Absolutely fear. Because pogroms galore.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What would happen during the pogrom?

MS. WALMAN:

They--in the small towns, they locked up everything. The girls, they [. . .] and they broke windows, and then they--fear, fear, fear, all of us in fear. And it came out how they--like here, how they celebrate Christmas, holiday, a big holiday, it's beautiful. Everywhere, all the nationalities, every year they kill my--I says, "My God, [do we have to have] another crazy Christmas go to [walk out]; [. . .] it's a holiday, [. . .] another [. . .] such a nice holiday." In Europe, they used to close all the windows, because we used to be afraid, because Jesus [. . .] Jews, they [. . .] You know, the three of us, that the Jews killed Jesus--our God, that he gave them something Jewish, are out to kill them. Okay. So [here it's hard] a big holiday is Christmas. And I never--[. . .] of the Jewish people [. . .] any holiday. [. . .] holiday. It's peaceful holiday, we love it. So anyhow, it was pogroms, always broke out, a pogrom, another few towns, or in this town. One of my friend, the children I [. . .] they live in the Bronx, they remember the pogroms, they killed their father. In the next town, [like us]. Our town is supposed to be the next one for the pogrom. But they didn't keep at it. All the [. . .] surrounded us. So, they killed a sister and a brother, older. Then them, and there were children, Lily, and Bernie, and Sophie. And Schlomo. Four children came to this country after the pogrom. So, we were the best friends, and I'm still the best friends with one of the sons. With one of the sons that lives here although the daughter lives in Florida, the younger children, my age, let's say. Or maybe they were younger. Younger.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And who in your family went to the United States first?

MS. WALMAN:

From my family? My brother was here. My sister too me to the this country.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

When your brother was here--

MS. WALMAN:

The child, my brother and the child. And they got married here. He got to be married.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

First tell me when you were still in Russia, what were the things you that heard about the United States?

MS. WALMAN:

I think you [know it]. It's not American to [. . .] The [. . .] that came is from America. Not from [. . .] I mean, in general [. . .] The [. . .] among the poor people, in my town, I don't know about the other towns, I didn't study about the Russian--I'm studying just from my town, that [. . .] anything could come from America. Like, my sister, [are trained] here in America. And my sister [. . .] And he was a soldier in this country. After the world war, he came with the uniform in America. To relieve all the [. . .] people, they [. . .] that he'll be able to pull through [ . . .] into Russia. He came [. . .] if you are the mother or brother or sister, you gave him money, and you said, "This is my money, give it to my father or mother, and my little sister." So, he was the first one to come in that town. Do you know what [a debt] means? To bring along money from my sister and brother, here. [. . .] that it [come to this], because I didn't even think that they [. . .] to this country. Because it was closed, everything was closed. You couldn't, even if you were rich, you couldn't come on the ship, you know. Anyhow, and he came in, he came in and he brought that money.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Did he bring letters or anything in writing?

MS. WALMAN:

I don't remember, but if you came, as he would come, to your--and everybody knew you, and your father and mother there, and he told you, "Come here, come here, come here, I show you--your sister--I have money for you," because everybody--when he came, everybody used to run [as children run to . . .] Statue of Liberty. Then, and everybody, the older people, they knew him--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Did the same person go back and forth?

MS. WALMAN:

He went back there. He came just for the reason to bring a relief. But, people that he know here--there. So, but he didn't bring relief for the town; he--I don't know how the relief came. But they started--the [. . .] came. The relief from America to the town, like potatoes, they buy because America is [. . .] product, baked bread from America. That's what I remember, otherwise I didn't study the details how it came.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So, how were you finally able to leave?

MS. WALMAN:

To come here?

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Yes.

MS. WALMAN:

We couldn't come from our town, because it was, it was--how do you say--like you go to Mexico--[a visa], a visa to go. And that time, it was right after the Revolution. The other town belongs to Russia, this one belongs to [. . .], this one [. . .] belongs to Poland. It wasn't divided [. . .] I didn't study--but anyway, we had to go from here, let's say, to Hudson, to the other of Hudson. The other side of the Hudson belongs to--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

New Jersey?

MS. WALMAN:

New Jersey. And in Europe, it belonged this one, this one belonged to America, and this one belong--in our town, it was a war [. . .] like that, like [. . .] all over. So, we had to steal to go from there, with [paying] people to come to the [. . .] illegal, illegal, to go on the other side, to come to the Hudson. The other side is New Jersey. And from there I went to relatives and I went to my married sister over there. And I--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So, do you remember how it was that you snuck out of the town?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, I went twice back and forth, because I had to bring the child and I had to bring it--it was complicated, during the night, but when you are young, and you are strong, you don't fear. You want [several sentences] So the same thing is with a child has more nerve, and more courage, and I didn't do it ten years ago, even fifteen years ago. But, that time, I went--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Explain who this young child was that you brought with you.

MS. WALMAN:

If I could be able to find that letter that the kid sent me. The kid sent [. . .] to do for me. The kid, then I came back, and I smuggled that [. . .] again, and I brought the child to my sister's house. In the other [. . .]. And my sister was all right, she has a house, she kept--she made all [the little papers]. For money, you make [little papers] there that you would buy there and study here. Then you could take out all the papers that you--then I used to get all the money from here, from my sister and brother, to my sister there. [. . .] either. And then, I didn't worry for anything. I got all my papers, to get out of the country, and I got all the papers from here, and my sister and brother, they let me leave the house, "Don't take anything with you, you don't need anything," my sister [. . .] I thought, "Maybe I'll take this [. . .]" She said, "Don't you take anything to America, you don't need anything."

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So what did you finally take with you when you left the village?

MS. WALMAN:

Nothing. I left everything. Oh, the--I took--I had [. . .] I had to bring back a child from this side because my sister, one of my sisters died, my mother was alive that time, it's [. . .] different, it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with [. . . ], but that has nothing to do with America. This how I grew up here. I'll come to that if you want me.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

We'll get there in a minute. What did your parents say when you were leaving?

MS. WALMAN:

My parents were dead.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Oh, they had both died.

MS. WALMAN:

Yes. I was--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And, just explain who the child was that you were taking with you--

MS. WALMAN:

My brother, that was here. I wish one of our children would be here, because she is dead too. My niece. She has a wonderful family left. Children, and grandchildren, I'm sorry I didn't prepare that one of the kids, for her birthday she wrote a letter, okay, but what our Aunt Jenny did for us. Okay, this is [. . .] from the little town. There is, when you grow up in a little town, and during the war, and during the Revolution, and during the pogroms, and during your father is paralyzed, and a mother is sick, and I'm the last one, the big one, already.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Go on.

MS. WALMAN:

So, it wasn't easy. It wasn't--but--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So you'll show me, now, about the trip out of the country?

MS. WALMAN:

From the other side. Because this side, I [. . .] from my brother, but the family [. . .] I would take a match and I would burn it up altogether. [. . .] Lively like the devil. Dancing, like, like this; he can tell you, he remembers me. I thought that [I was a friend of the world]. I was wrong. They used to say that I'm good looking. And, worried, so young children.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So now tell me about how you left Russia, what the trip was to get to a port where you can take a boat to the United States.

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, we were six weeks until we made the papers legal, there. That I was born in there, not in this side, I was born there. And, my sister kept [her], and we brought everything to there, because they send us the money from [. . .], and I dressed up the child, and I was a young girl with a baby. So, anyhow, and I dressed up, I made all the papers, my sister helped, my brother, my sister [. . .]. I took [. . .] all over, where we need, my sister took us, I mean, we had it very good there. We had enough to eat, and [roof] to take care of us, and we [. . .] a lot of people to come [. . .] They came; I wasn't the only one. [. . .] steal a bite, in those days, [. . .] to do. And my mother,"mommy, mommy," my townspeople, the kids [. . .] The one that I said is still living in the Bronx, they [. . .] and we lived from one mouth to the other and we were very close.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Where did you go to board a boat?

MS. WALMAN:

[. . .] all the papers. [. . .] the papers. So, we went to all around America. We went there with an agent. Not--I wasn't alone with [. . .] went all alone and you don't [. . .] go to China [. . .] papers to take out, the passport, that agent did everything for you. I guess it was made up from my [. . .] everything was--they took us to the boat, before they took us, they put us in a hotel, and they--

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Who were you traveling with at this time?

MS. WALMAN:

With whom? With my little girl, and I--people that I--my brother brought me to a big town. In [Chernovich]. And we sleep here. And from there, from there the agent took me over. Took us over. And I wasn't the only one. I was--there were so many my age people that we became very friendly to each other, and my brother--my brother-in-law brought his [. . .] and he loved it there.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

This is the end of side one of tape one of the interview with Jenny Walman. This is interview number 195. END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE

MR. APPLEBAUM:

This is side two of tape one of the interview with Jenny Walman. This is interview number 195. We're up to the point where you're going to board a boat. And come over to the United States. What harbor was it, what city was it--

MS. WALMAN:

[Olent, Olent], yeah. And, boat was the ship [Dusseldorf]. And, I came with my baby, she was six years, she was a big girl. She used to dance with me, and she was a very good child, and I left even the [native foreigners]. This means, the people that they went with me, my age--they used to--if I was to go to [. . .] they [loved] little [. . .] You know, they took care of each other, you know. And, they--we become very friendly when we are going eight people, special circumstances. And people [. . .] very well from the first time that my brother-in-law brought me big city, so we became very friendly, and we were friends until the late, late years with them. So they used to take care of each other. And I never left her alone. It's possible, I used to take her all over, because she was a big girl, very talkful and understanding. She was very happy with Jenny; Jenny was like her sister, not like her aunt.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What can you tell me about the boat trip over?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh! Well, except that fear--that I was always afraid of water, so it was the first--they give you food galore. I never saw it in my life, so much. And you dance and you have a good time on the boat. I, I don't know, I don't know anything else to tell you about that. Except that I had a little fear that I came to Ellis Island. Then I just--maybe you put it in another--I came and I got [. . .] and I didn't know which door to go out, and which goes--and I thought there was some way back--I always was afraid.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Okay, we'll get to that in a minute. On the boat coming over, did you see people from different countries?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh my goodness! only different, all kinds, [. . .] some [. . .] you know? And we, each group, can I--each group, like the Jewish group, they [want to be more among our people], that we understood each other. And I guess, I guess all the nationalities [. . .] I thought, "My goodness, where did they put me, with all these people? What will I do with my language that I understand?" But each group has to [. . .] their group.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Who was it that you did this dancing with?

MS. WALMAN:

With, well--on the boat?

MR. APPLEBAUM:

You said on the boat--

MS. WALMAN:

With all of my age people. All my group, they [. . .] They forgot Russia, they forgot--they forgot pogroms, everything. People, my age, my goodness, they're forgetting everything. They play [these events]? I don't know, I really don't know. I didn't think and I wasn't hungry, I couldn't eat so much. I mean, I shall tell you that--a lie, if I tell you that we didn't have much to eat. People like me, older people, they had [hadink]. You know what [hadink] is? All pots, and cereal, and eggs, [. . .] two eggs for breakfast. I didn't want to eat crazy things. [. . .] You couldn't eat, you had to take it [. . .] later. Later they give you a big meal, a cooked [meal, fish. And at night they give you chicken, and meat, and whatever they gave you. I really mean it, I didn't [. . .] So they give you too much. I had nothing about to complain on Ellis Island. The only thing I was complaining, because the kids got the measles and they kept me two weeks there. I thought they were going to send us home. That was the only fear that I was afraid. Because she had the measles I didn't know, measles they are contagious, or--I knew when you had glaucoma, they send you back. That's what I really knew in Europe. Otherwise, about here, what do I know? The [. . .] that I was the younger one in my house. Okay, so, but, it came in Ellis Island, it, some days, they gave us a beautiful concert. Beautiful concert. But, [now they] realize how beautiful that concert was. I really mean it. And they--now I--lately, not years ago, they gave, let's say, the Jewish people, they were sitting over here, and over here they had different people, but [. . .] this or the other. So, then we had to go out from the concert, we started to go out this door, Jenny, Jenny was too lively, so she went, she started to go this way, she went to this way, over the chair, and I went in another, different room, with different people, and it was almost late afternoon, they didn't understand me a word, I didn't understand them. I said, "I'm [trying]" I said. What will I do? Maybe they'll send me back, because I don't belong to this, I don't understand word. It took me trying [business] every day until they send me over [. . .] and I talked to everybody my language, Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish, nobody understand me a word. So I that's the end of me. That day, until they sent me [. . .] they sent in a patient that they knew my language. And I explained. I cried and I explained what happened. I was sleeping in a different room with different people, and I'm afraid my sister and brother will come to visit me, the kid was--you know--in the hospital. They took her away with the measles.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Did your brother and sister come to meet you when you first got there?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, every time.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Let's get back to the first day when you came into New York Harbor. Do you remember seeing the Statue of Liberty?

MS. WALMAN:

We were celebrating. I don't think [. . .] Liberty. We know America as a tall [statue] to liberty. It's a liberty. It's a Statue of Liberty. The minute you come into this country, it's like you see the Statue of Liberty and you [. . .] your [thoughts]. This is the liberty, the Statue of Liberty. [. . .] in those days, as a child, I wasn't reading the history about America, but America is a free country. A country that you have everything, and you can talk [. . .] about it. So, we--I--I don't say "we"--I don't say agitated people, are they reading this [. . .] the country. If I was about to go to a country now, I'd buy a book and I'd read all the history--not all the history, but something that I [. . .] see and what about, but then, America's a free country, and I'm going to the free country, so the Statue of Liberty is a statue, one part of America. That's what I picture now. [. . .]

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What did the people on the boat do when you pulled into the harbor and you saw the Statue?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, we were, we were in heaven. Just that we were in America, that we were in America, the Statue of Liberty done, and we are here, we are get more civilized, we want to know more about America, we read history, who--when the Statue came here, who gave us the Statue of Liberty to America. That made the history of the country--this is the truth. I, I was very young to understand these things. You know, I did not read about the history of--I know America is America, [like they told--you know about the thirties] when the Bible? The Bible? You know, when I take the Bible, all right, I'm a little--my father was a teacher, he used to tell these children, and I used to take in his image as a young girl, you know, as much as I could. I know the Jewish Bible and I know the Bible. So, this is--I take for granted that the Bible is [. . .] when I read something about--the same thing [. . .], let's say, if I would learn about the history about the Statue of Liberty or I wasn't old enough and not educated enough to understand, but I would--to take in me, now, if I would come in from those countries.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

When you and the child finally got on to Ellis Island, was your brother there?

MS. WALMAN:

When we came into this country, my--this child was in the hospital, I guess. And, they couldn't come in to visit us. I think that they--or before they took us off the boat, to the port, you know, they rent a little boat around the water, and we used to stay by the windows, and they used to--they had hats, big [. . .] hats, [. . .] on the head. I'm [. . .] that's what we call [. . .] they changed their name, her name was [Kleeman]. My name is [Salterman]. I [. . .] my sister. They came every day. And here, they took us off the boat, the ship. And they put us in Ellis Island. And, then we were free to come visit every day. So they came, I don't know, or every--because they were working people.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What was it like the first day, though, when they came? When you finally saw your brother?

MS. WALMAN:

Honestly speaking, I was very close with my sister. My sister came to this--I went to [law] school in the house, you know, that she left, with ten children, everybody was married. And they like children. They have a lot who are older than I am, you know. And, my sister had a baby before my mother had me. You know. But this is not important. Important is this, I was very--I knew that is my brother, he used to come very often to visit us in Europe. And, I knew [. . .] very well, I used to come there in the small town with--to visit. When he was in America he used to come to my sister-in-law. And, matter of fact, when she died, she died in our house, because in our town was a doctor. She lived in a smaller town, they didn't have a doctor. And she took sick, my sister-in-law, they [put] her in our house, we had a--anyhow, so I knew them very well. So, my brother, I was close, because he used play [. . .] with a little [. . .] used to come for a visit. But [. . .] with my sister, my sister was a mother to me. Can I start to talk about her? She's [worth it.] She--I have nothing, I have nothing to lose, I didn't lose anything to this country. I gained a lot. I gained knowledge, a lot of knowledge. I gained, I gained everything--freedom. I gained until lately that we weren't afraid to go outside at night. Before lights, electric lights. So I didn't lose--I raised two nice daughters.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Let's back up for a second again, okay? The two weeks that you were on Ellis Island--

MS. WALMAN:

Yes.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

You were staying there with the girl? She was in the hospital?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, no. You're not allowed to go to her, she's contagious. To bring the measles among the people.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

So where did you stay--

MS. WALMAN:

I stayed in with all the immigrants. [. . .] I wasn't afraid of people. The Jewish people [. . .], the Italian people lived together, all the nationalities, they used to be among their groups.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And where did you sleep?

MS. WALMAN:

We had beds there. We had rooms. We didn't have any, we had towels, she had showers. I really don't remember to complain about anything. We had--any [. . .] in case for the [. . .] people that are coming from New York. We [. . .] We had more than that. We didn't- -we had food, we had hot and cold water, we had [where to] wash [our hair], so it's impossible to take [. . .] a person like us, that we were brought up, to complain--all right, I wanted to go out in [. . .] from there because I was afraid they'd send me back. That's about the only thing that I had in this country when I came.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And how did you finally get off of Ellis Island?

MS. WALMAN:

Oh, when the kid was out of danger. And, maybe they did that to keep us more--we had [. . .] a lawyer, and my American brother, he's American already. My sister, they helped, they helped when the kid was out of danger. Now, I understand she was two weeks there. So when she was out of danger, they let us out.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And where did you go the day you got off of the Island?

MS. WALMAN:

Right to my sister's house. She wasn't married. She was waiting [. . .] So we had a very close cousin. They took the same interest, she got through.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Where did they meet you when you came off of Ellis Island? Did they meet you down at the Battery?

MS. WALMAN:

No, they came and they took--no, inside, in Ellis Island. I really don't take any notice for that. No, not in the--in Ellis Island. They took us out from there, and now [they take us back], and now I really don't remember. It didn't amount to me so much, anything that I went out, and the day I [believed them], and I [. . .] and I know that I'm going into America, into New York.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

And where did they take you, do you remember?

MS. WALMAN:

In the Bronx, yeah. In [Garden] Street, near the zoo, with the [. . .], a very nice street, and I loved it the first time I was taking the air there. And, they were very good to me. My cousin, that cousin that took us, he was [. . .] with my older sister, he used to come and [. . .] Europe, very often to visit us. And he, he liked the house the way my mother used to treat him, I guess, I don't know.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

What were some of the new things you saw in the Bronx that you'd never seen before?

MS. WALMAN:

The hot water, and to [have] everything in the house, like a bathtub. Everything was a luxury to me. The water, we used to carry water in Europe. It's from the well. Here we had a faucet, and hot and cold water, with all improvements, and clean [. . .] and then my sister got married and she got an apartment, a couple of weeks later. And I lived [the rest of my life there, the rest of my single life].

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Where did you learn English?

MS. WALMAN:

I, even now I don't talk good, you never lose your accent. I learned in--I went to school, I learned it through my school. We had a bunch--girls, boys, youngsters, and we went in the Bronx, in Tremont Avenue, in a school there, Tremont, Tremont--yeah, Tremont Avenue, near the subway station. There's a big school. Still stays there.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

How did people treat you, since you were an immigrant?

MS. WALMAN:

Where?

MR. APPLEBAUM:

In the Bronx. Were you treated differently because you were from another country?

MS. WALMAN:

No. The most of them, they--where I lived, that time, I didn't live with very poor people, very poor. I think, good paid workers. I think so--maybe they got paid ten dollars a week, but they were dressed nicely, and no, it was all kind of people there, not only Jewish people. Italian, I love Italian. The Italian are not--they are very good, they are very good to live with them. You know, we didn't have any other people but Italian that time, and Jewish people, the neighborhood. It's around--oh, that's on [Eightieth] Street. Around the Bronx part. We lived around that neighborhood.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Were you able to find work? Did you look for work?

MS. WALMAN:

Right away. I came. People, that they knew my parents from Europe, they were [. . .] not buses, but contractors, and they called me and they said, anytime that I want a job, they would give me. And they gave me the first day that I came in, the first week, ten dollars a week. In those days, it was good pay. I [. . .] a little bit sewing. Anyhow, but they knew my parents very well, and they--I guess they respected my people from Europe, because they know--they knew each other very well. And I worked there until I [. ..] for more money, I don't know, I changed a lot of jobs. But, that's what it was. And the rest is [. . .] years later.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Do you have any regrets about having come over?

MS. WALMAN:

No, no. I only regret that I wasn't born here, that's the only regret. I still feel like my language is no good, my thoughts, I didn't learn enough, and I am very--I used to tell this to my children, my children were [. . .] children, but [. . .] died now. Thirty-six years old, a teacher. So, but I wanted to bring out this about I used to tell my children. I'm nothing jealous of you. I gave you children the more that I could get. And what I didn't have I wanted to have good things. But one thing I'm jealous of you: for your knowledge. They used to laugh, laugh. This I was always jealous. It's about you children that you were born in here. that's the honest truth, that I'm jealous. Why I wasn't born in here. Not because I wanted to get rid of all the [. . .] there. I'm jealous because my mother couldn't have a pair of shoes and I could go and pick out shoes in the winter. And my father couldn't be--so that's why I'm jealous, otherwise I'm not jealous from any for coming here. I love it.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

Thank you very much.

MS. WALMAN:

You're very welcome.

MR. APPLEBAUM:

This is the end of side two of tape one of the interview with Jenny Walman. This is the end of interview number 195.