MOORE:

Good afternoon, this Kate Moore for the National Park Service and today is the 19th of July, 1994 and I'm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the home of Mary Kravich, who came from Austria in 1923 when she was 16 years old.

KRAVICH:

That's right.

MOORE:

Why don't you begin by giving us your full name and date of birth, please.

KRAVICH:

My name now is Mary Kravich and date of birth is, was August the 4th, 1907.

MOORE:

Okay. And what was your maiden name?

KRAVICH:

My maiden name was Derwaritsch.

MOORE:

And here you have it spelled...

KRAVICH:

D-E-R- (then she follows along with Ms. Moore)

MOORE:

D-E-R-W-A-R-I-T-S-C-H.

KRAVICH:

That's right.

MOORE:

All right. And where were you born?

KRAVICH:

I was born in Zelting, Austria.

MOORE:

How do you spell Zelting?

KRAVICH:

Z-E-L-T-I-N-G.

MOORE:

Okay, and what size town was that?

KRAVICH:

Well, there was the town with five villages. The town was, name was Radkersburg. And that was where I went to school and our church was there.

MOORE:

And what was the, how do you spell that particular town's name?

KRAVICH:

Radkersburg. R-A-D-K-E-R-S-B-U-R-G.

MOORE:

And you say there were five villages...

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Together?

KRAVICH:

That's right.

MOORE:

And what was the major industry of those villages would you say?

KRAVICH:

We were farmers, farmers.

MOORE:

Farmers.

KRAVICH:

Yes. All farmers. Farmland.

MOORE:

And you grew up in, your house was in one of those...

KRAVICH:

Villages.

MOORE:

Villages.

KRAVICH:

It's name was Zelting.

MOORE:

Okay, what was your small village known for? The same thing, farming?

KRAVICH:

Yes. That's all I know of.

MOORE:

Uh huh. And what was your father's name?

KRAVICH:

My father's name was Joseph Sedonia.

MOORE:

And how do you spell Sedonia?

KRAVICH:

S-E-D-O-N-I-A..

MOORE:

Okay. And what was his occupation?

KRAVICH:

He was a farmer.

MOORE:

He was a farmer. Could you describe what your father looked like?

KRAVICH:

Tall. Was just a ordinary person.

MOORE:

And how tall would you say is tall?

KRAVICH:

Oh, I guess 5'5", 5'6", same with me. And he was a loving person. That's all I can tell you. He was a, he left in 1907 when I was born.

MOORE:

So, you knew him later in life?

KRAVICH:

I only met him when I was sixteen.

MOORE:

That was the first time you saw him when you were sixteen?

KRAVICH:

Sixteen.

MOORE:

And when you knew him later in life, how would you describe his personality? If nobody knew him, how, what would you say?

KRAVICH:

He was a, well, he was a very nice person and he was helpful and ah, what can I say about him?

MOORE:

Was he a disciplinarian or...

KRAVICH:

No, no, no. Not, not him. He, when he gets angry he just walked out. That's all.

MOORE:

And is there a story about your father that you associate with his life? Anything that you remember that he did?

KRAVICH:

Well, I had a little troubles when we came here and this is probably when, when I, we were, I raised with my uncle and aunt and my mother was there as a maid. And then my mother, so she was attacked by my uncle and I think that she was supposed to, well, she was pregnant. And that's how my father got into it. And then later we didn't know about it. My father didn't know anything until the uncle wrote. I don't know how true it is. It was all before my time. He, he wrote to, to Europe. He said, "She's not your daughter. Why you want to take her? She's mine." And that was a trouble a little bit.

MOORE:

And did your father accept you?

KRAVICH:

He accepted me. But a year later I was married. I met a nice man from Yugoslavia. A very loving person. And he was, he was willing to take my mother and father with me when I got married.

MOORE:

Well, we'll get to that in a moment. So, but your father, basically, you had to make amends with him and such...

KRAVICH:

No. I was working and he was very nice. He was very nice to me. He was a loving person.

MOORE:

Okay, well...

KRAVICH:

And he lived with me for twenty years. And I closed his eyes. And then I remember he was with me, he lived with me for twenty years and never, and I closed his eyes and I never forget it.

MOORE:

Well, what was your mother's name?

KRAVICH:

Louise.

MOORE:

Louise. And what was her maiden name?

KRAVICH:

Derwaritsch.

MOORE:

Yes. All right.

KRAVICH:

That's the reason I carried my mother's maiden name...

MOORE:

You carried your...

KRAVICH:

Up 'til I come, 'til I come here to America. And then I took Sedonia only for about a year and then I took Kravich. (Mrs. Kravich caughs)

MOORE:

And so, well, what, you said you mentioned your mother worked for your uncle and aunt.

KRAVICH:

As a maid.

MOORE:

As a maid. Right.

KRAVICH:

In Europe.

MOORE:

And how, how would you describe what your mother looked like?

KRAVICH:

She was a loving person. Everybody liked her very much. She was, she loved roses. And that I can prove that in my yard. (she laughs) And she was a working helping my aunt.

MOORE:

And how, how did she look? How tall was she about would you say?

KRAVICH:

She was about my, no, she was a little shorter than I am.

MOORE:

And you're how tall?

KRAVICH:

About five, my mother was about five, five foot, 5'1" my mother was. And she was little. No, she was thin when I came but she got heavier since.

MOORE:

How about her eye color and her hair color?

KRAVICH:

I think she had gray hair. Gray, white hair and gray eyes.

MOORE:

When she was younger what color was her hair, do you remember?

KRAVICH:

Not black. Dark. Brown. Auburn.

MOORE:

And do you have a story that you associate with you mom when you were a child?

KRAVICH:

I always went with her when she went to graft roses. She was grafting roses and she, Mother would go all around the neighborhood or even in the woods and you would find the wild rose. She would graft it. And that was, that's her hobby. And...

MOORE:

Was gardening also her hobby?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And did you have a garden at home?

KRAVICH:

Yes, I do.

MOORE:

And did she, did you have one in, also back home in Austria?

KRAVICH:

Oh, yeah.

MOORE:

And what did you grow in your garden?

KRAVICH:

We had all the vegetables. We had two gardens. In the front of the house there was one nothing but flowers, roses and flowers. And in the back was a great vegetable yard. A whole garden just for vegetables.

MOORE:

And what type of vegetables did you grow?

KRAVICH:

Well, lettuce and turnips is filled. I cannot think of it right now. I know we had plenty of lettuce and carrots and now it's simple. Tomatoes came in the latest, the latest years before I left and I didn't like them. They smelled so much. (They laugh)

MOORE:

So tomatoes weren't in before that?

KRAVICH:

Well, yes, I think about a couple of years before I left, yeah.

MOORE:

Now what do you remember about your house at home in Austria? What, could you tell me a little bit about it? How big was it? Where was it?

KRAVICH:

Well, it was a bungalow house. It has two bedrooms, a kitchen, a big kitchen and that's ah...

MOORE:

So how many rooms all together?

KRAVICH:

(She coughs) Well, excuse me, (she coughs) (break in tape) We had arbor, grapes and it was growing from one house to the edge over the roof, no, over the edging of the border roof, you know where I mean, down. And that was, and I found that when I went to Europe in 198-, 1981 I found the same same arbor. Of course, they cut it down, but it still keeps on growing and the, the tree, the mulberry tree and around front I climbed all the time when I was a kid. That was still there in 1991. That was a very...

MOORE:

1981 or '91?

KRAVICH:

'91. No, no '81 '81.

MOORE:

'81, Okay. All right, so, so you had a, you're fond of plants, your family was.

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And you said the house was, how big was the bungalow again? How many rooms?

KRAVICH:

Well, it really had two bedrooms, two big bedrooms and big kitchen and then there is a attic. To that there is great big attic. A little bit was in one bedroom and the rest was for, for, used for flour and grain and stuff like this.

MOORE:

Now, how did you heat your house back at home in Austria? What heating did you use?

KRAVICH:

Wood.

MOORE:

Wood in what?

KRAVICH:

Wood, well, well, I tell you, it must have been awfully cold because when I was a child my feet and my toes froze. When I was a little child, you know, and I had trouble with my, for that for years. And we only had this little belly stove in the, in one of the bedrooms.

MOORE:

A potbelly stove in there? Little stove?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, in little tiny, little belly stove in one bedroom and the other, the other one's heat, heated by a oven from the kitchen from a brick ah, what, a big brick...

MOORE:

For baking bread?

KRAVICH:

Yes, for baking.

MOORE:

Okay, and um how did you, How about lighting? What did you use for light?

KRAVICH:

Lamps.

MOORE:

What kind of lamps did you have?

KRAVICH:

Kerosene lamps.

MOORE:

Kerosene lamps. And what about water? What was your source of water...

KRAVICH:

Oh, yes, we had a beautiful, we had a wonderful pump right in front of the house and we had to carry our, carry our, from the pump in, into the kitchen. Another pump they, now they have it. They have it pumped in now but at that time we had to carry it. We had a great big...

MOORE:

Bucket...

KRAVICH:

Bucket, not bucket, ah, two handles. And we carried water in the kitchen that way.

MOORE:

And how did you take baths then?

KRAVICH:

In the middle of the kitchen floor.

MOORE:

In the middle of the...

KRAVICH:

In a big, with a big pot with a big tub.

MOORE:

In the middle of...

KRAVICH:

In a laundry tub.

MOORE:

And where was that laundry tub kept?

KRAVICH:

That was, I don't know where they keep it during the day but we have to use it for the washing clothes, you know, and the same tub we used for the bath.

MOORE:

You didn't wash clothes and take a bath at the same time, did you?

KRAVICH:

No. Oh, no, no.

MOORE:

Somebody had a story about that.

KRAVICH:

No. No, no, no. We didn't.

MOORE:

And um, okay, how about plumbing? What about toilet facilities? How were they?

KRAVICH:

Outdoor. Outdoor, hm hm.

MOORE:

And um, what type of furniture did you have in the house? Do you remember the furniture?

KRAVICH:

Well, the fur-, the furniture was a bed and a dresser and the tables and chairs.

MOORE:

And were they homemade or store-bought?

KRAVICH:

I cannot, I wouldn't know. I really don't know. That I couldn't tell you.

MOORE:

And um, now, did you keep animals at all?

KRAVICH:

Yes. We had cows and we had a horse. We had one horse and we had always three milking cows and the little ones and we had pigs and that, that's all.

MOORE:

Did you have any bir-, chickens or...

KRAVICH:

Yeah, chickens, oh yes, chickens. But no, no other fowl.

MOORE:

And, um, who lived in your house with you then?

KRAVICH:

That was my aunt and uncle. It was their house and my mother was there. The reason Mother was there is her, my mother's father was a widower and he get married and when this, this, that was my aunt's brother. When, when ah, there was on the wedding day she said, this new bride said to, this new bride said to ah, this is my first hell in this house, meaning me. And my aunt couldn't stand that and she took me on her shoulder and took me to her house. And it were, that was my mother's, not me, meaning me mother. Mother was four years old and she took Mother to her and she raised her. And Mother stayed there and that's how I come in.

MOORE:

So, this was where your mother had grown up, too?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

In the same house?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And um, how far was your house from the center of the village?

KRAVICH:

One hour walk. That's how I can tell...

MOORE:

Hm hm.

KRAVICH:

No, the village was, I was, I was surround in the village. All around is houses in a, in a, in a circle. And there's a great big big big center.

MOORE:

What was the largest town that was nearby?

KRAVICH:

Radkersburg.

MOORE:

And how far was that?

KRAVICH:

That's where the church and school is and that was about one hour...

MOORE:

One hour...

KRAVICH:

Walk.

MOORE:

Walk. So when you went to school, did you walk an hour?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

There and back?

KRAVICH:

And back.

MOORE:

Even in the winter?

KRAVICH:

Even in the winter.

MOORE:

Um, let's get back to the house a bit. We'll talk about school in a moment. Tell me about the kitchen. You said it was a big kitchen. What was in your kitchen?

KRAVICH:

There was a big table. A table and two benches. And then beside the brick oven there was another stove like we have them here, you know. In German they call it (German). And, and we, that's what we had everyday...

MOORE:

Now, who did the cooking in your family?

KRAVICH:

My, my aunt.

MOORE:

Your aunt did the cooking. Did your mother help?

KRAVICH:

No, my mother was outside working. She was always on, outside the fields. Fields, take care of the animals, take care of the field.

MOORE:

All right what was your favorite food as a child?

KRAVICH:

What is, I don't know. I just couldn't really tell you. We, we had chickens every weekend I know and I didn't get a pair, just a leg of the chicken. Not a thighs, just a legs.

MOORE:

You got the leg?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Did you like them?

KRAVICH:

I had not no choice. (they laugh)

MOORE:

Was that your favorite food then?

KRAVICH:

No, well, that was a, I couldn't tell you what kind of food we had. I couldn't tell you much.

MOORE:

Did you help cook at all?

KRAVICH:

Nope.

MOORE:

Now, how did you organize your meals? How did you eat the meals at home? Ah, did you, everyone eat together? Separately?

KRAVICH:

Yes, all together, always. We were always round the dining room table. Always.

MOORE:

And how many meals a day did you eat together?

KRAVICH:

Well, not breakfast, of course. But, ah, the once a day at eight, nine o'clock would be our supper.

MOORE:

At night...

KRAVICH:

There were always ah, some kind of a soup and rice in it or something. We didn't have meat too much.

MOORE:

Now, what about other family members? What about your grandparents? How far away did they live?

KRAVICH:

Hm, grandparents, I don't, my, my grandmother died when I was four years old. So I don't know much...

MOORE:

And that was whose mother was that?

KRAVICH:

That would be my aunt's mother. My aunt's mother. That's why the four generation. See.

MOORE:

And who were you closest to in your family?

KRAVICH:

When I was a youngster?

MOORE:

Yeah.

KRAVICH:

Mother.

MOORE:

Your mother.

KRAVICH:

Mother.

MOORE:

And um...

KRAVICH:

We were always together.

MOORE:

What about religious life? Were you religious?

KRAVICH:

Yes, very much so.

MOORE:

What denomination were you?

KRAVICH:

Catholic.

MOORE:

You were Catholic?

KRAVICH:

Hm hm.

MOORE:

And was there a church nearby?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, well, one hour. And my aunt went every day, to church every day. And we have to go on Sundays. Oh, we were very very religious people.

MOORE:

Did you go to church every day?

KRAVICH:

Oh, not every day but every week.

MOORE:

Every week?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And um...

KRAVICH:

The church was right near to school. Next door to school so I could stop in.

MOORE:

And did you say grace before meals?

KRAVICH:

Well, yes. Always.

MOORE:

Always?

KRAVICH:

Always. Always.

MOORE:

Even before breakfast?

KRAVICH:

Yes, we did.

MOORE:

And what about prayers at night?

KRAVICH:

Mother taught me.

MOORE:

She taught you prayers. Do you remember any of those prayers in German?

KRAVICH:

No, I don't think I can. I'm sorry.

MOORE:

That's all right. And um, did you ever experience any religious persecution at all?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

No.

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Um, what was your favorite holiday as a child?

KRAVICH:

Christ-, Well, Christmas, I suppose. That was in, and Easter. Those two holidays. Because with Easter that Saturday we went to Auf-, Auferstehung, that's ah, you have to go the Saturday when the Lord get up, you know. And then, that's a big day. And then, ofcourse, Christmas we went to Midnight Mass. Was no gifts or anything like that.

MOORE:

How about special foods at Christmas? Any?

KRAVICH:

Oh, yes, we have um, baked stuff. A lot of baked goods. A lot of baked goods.

MOORE:

And who did the cooking for Christmas?

KRAVICH:

My aunt and my mother. Mother helped.

MOORE:

At Christmas?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. Hm hm.

MOORE:

And what about Easter? Did you have any special foods at Easter?

KRAVICH:

Generally ham. (she clears her throat)

MOORE:

You ate ham at Easter?

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And you said there was no gift giving. Did you...

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Did you decorate your house at Christmas at all?

KRAVICH:

Well, um, no we didn't decorate or anything. Yeah, we had a Christmas tree. A wreath. We made a Christmas tree and that had to stay until the second of January, February.

MOORE:

The second of February?

KRAVICH:

February. That's Candlemas Day. Candlemas Day. That's when Christmas Day, Christmas tree gets thrown away and any cookies that's left, I could eat it.

MOORE:

Was that from what, the tree?

KRAVICH:

The tree.

MOORE:

The tree. And what did you decorate the tree with?

KRAVICH:

Baked cookies. And then nuts, we had gold and silver nuts. We made it, you know. Covered them with silver paper, gold paper.

MOORE:

And put that on the tree as well?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. That's what we did.

MOORE:

And did you put anything at the top of the tree at all?

KRAVICH:

I don't think, I imagine we got a little angel or something like that up there. But I remember myself dusting and every time I can dust around the ah, the ah stand in the center table or dresser, you know, where it was I was looking for any cookies came down. That I could eat that one.

MOORE:

(she laughs) Now, you said you went to school.

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

You walked to school and hour.

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Now, tell me about your school a little bit. Where you went to school.

KRAVICH:

Well, we had a religious at the same time. We have ah, the priest come twice a day at, ah, twice a week for two hours for religious instruction. And the school was, regular school except, ah, it was a discipline. Believe me, it was a discipline. You could hear a pin drop when the school was in session.

MOORE:

Were you ever punished in school, at all?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, I was.

MOORE:

How, for what?

KRAVICH:

I guess I was talking and I just have to put my hands out and get a...

MOORE:

And they hit your hand?

KRAVICH:

Hit my hand.

MOORE:

With what?

KRAVICH:

With a nice little stick.

MOORE:

With a nice little stick. (they laugh) And did, who taught you? Were there regular teachers or were there religious, were there nuns?

KRAVICH:

No, no, no. Regular teachers.

MOORE:

Regular teachers?

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

How many students were per class and how did they arrange it?

KRAVICH:

I don't know that they, I imagine it would be ah, at least, at least forty, forty or fifty a class.

MOORE:

And um, how big, the school itself had how many rooms? Do you know?

KRAVICH:

Ah, five, ah six rooms. Five gr-, five grades.

MOORE:

Five grades.

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Now, you walked every day...

KRAVICH:

Every day.

MOORE:

Did you ever miss school for reasons of the weather at all?

KRAVICH:

I don't remember that I missed school.

MOORE:

What was your favorite subject in school?

KRAVICH:

Geography.

MOORE:

Geography? And do you remember any schoolteachers names or playmates names from school time?

KRAVICH:

I remember a teacher and I can't think, his name is Jelen, Helen, something like that. He was, he was a disciplinarian but he was wonderful. He, he, ah, he, we have to listen to him because if you don't, they asked me once in geography where, I never forget it and I never, I was supposed to talk about Napoleon, you know. And I got somewhat stuck and he hit me on my face. Gave me slap on the face. Then I was so scared...

MOORE:

You mean you were talking about Napoleon and he slapped you on the face?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. He slapped me because I got stuck. I, I didn't know the next paragraph, I guess. And then he give me another slap and then I was sent out. I couldn't talk at all.

MOORE:

Now, this school, was it a special school? Was it for any partic...

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Was it an agriculture school?

KRAVICH:

No. It was a regular school. Regular elementary school.

MOORE:

And elementary school. OK, now, did you go on to other schooling?

KRAVICH:

I went to high school.

MOORE:

High school. Now, was that a special school?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, that was a, that was a privilege. Privilege to go there.

MOORE:

Privilege to go there? Why?

KRAVICH:

Because it was no, a lot of people didn't go. They go to their little elementary school and then they quit. But I went to the high schools and I...

MOORE:

Now, was that an agricultural school?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Regular high, regular high school?

KRAVICH:

Regular high school.

MOORE:

Now...

KRAVICH:

I didn't, I didn't take English that time I took, I took French like a dummy. (she laughs)

MOORE:

You took French. Did you know any English before you came here?

KRAVICH:

No, not a word.

MOORE:

And at that time did you think you were going to come to the United States?

KRAVICH:

No. Never did.

MOORE:

So you took French. What about the high school? How far did you go through the high school?

KRAVICH:

It was in the town. Downtown.

MOORE:

Downtown. And how long did you go to high school?

KRAVICH:

I think there were three years, I think.

MOORE:

And you graduated?

KRAVICH:

Yes, I graduated.

MOORE:

And what was your favorite subject in high school?

KRAVICH:

Gee, I don't know.

MOORE:

Not Napoleon.

KRAVICH:

No. (they laugh) No, that was in grade school. I was in grade school. I never forget that.

MOORE:

And um, so, did you finish school before you came to the United States?

KRAVICH:

Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I graduate and I went to, I went to a, a school, it's not agriculture, after it do cost my mother a lot of hard work and a lot of, she was working for brick, ah, for brick layers to make money to send me to this particular school.

MOORE:

And what was that school?

KRAVICH:

That was school in, uh (telephone rings, break in tape) That was a school that was six weeks of agriculture, six weeks of cooking, six weeks of canning, and house cleaning. That was like a course there and I just, yesterday she showed me that I got a zeugnis, that's a...

MOORE:

Report card?

KRAVICH:

The report card, you know.

MOORE:

And what did your mother do for the brick layer to earn money?

KRAVICH:

She was carrying the bricks up.

MOORE:

She carried bricks?

KRAVICH:

She carried bricks to the, to the, to the brick layers.

MOORE:

So this was besides her other job?

KRAVICH:

The other one besides. Her spare time. She went to the, she worked so I could get the, so she, she could buy the equipment what she had to buy for me to go to that school. That's why I loved her so much.

MOORE:

And do you remember, when you went to school do you remember any schoolmates in that class or any of your schoolmates names?

KRAVICH:

No, I don't remember. But I met... met one living in 19-, when I was in 1981. She was still living. 19-, I think 19...

MOORE:

'81 right?

KRAVICH:

'81 she was still there.

MOORE:

Well, how did you find her?

KRAVICH:

We were there. Ah, we went, Cecilia took me to Austria in 1981 and in 1985 and 1988 we went to Yugoslavia.

MOORE:

So you had the desire to go back.

KRAVICH:

Yes. I had to wait 'til my mother died and she, Mother didn't want no part of Europe because she didn't think Europe was nice for her and can't blame, don't blame her.

MOORE:

Well, how did you get to the United States? Tell me the story that led up to that. You were sixteen...

KRAVICH:

Well, my father was, when, when I was a child, five years old, from the time I was, he stayed single for five years because he want us to come but my mother will not come over the ocean. She was afraid. Titanic was in 1912.

MOORE:

Right.

KRAVICH:

And she was afraid of, she didn't want to lose her daughter. So she, he got himself married over here and in 1919 his wife died and he thought of us. And he sent, I never forget when I sent the first letter to them, to me. And I got it, the postman and I ran to that, to the field. I ran to the field and I says, "Mother, that is a letter from Father." Mother told me that Father was in America. And that, that's, she started talking to, writing together and that's how it came he decided to bring us here.

MOORE:

What do you know about the United States before you came? What did your mother know?

KRAVICH:

Nothing, except it was a wonderful place. We always, you know, it was just a, because it was a, Vereinen der Staaten, that means ah... That was a...

VOICE OFF-MIKE:

United States.

KRAVICH:

United States, yeah, and they didn't, you know, it was a good place to be. There's no wars or anything like over there, see.

MOORE:

So when your mother got that letter, was that one of the first letters she's had?

KRAVICH:

Yes, it was the first letter. That was the first letter she had from him.

MOORE:

And what, did you father invite you then to come?

KRAVICH:

Yes. I think they probably, there was letters back and forth and they probably in one of them the made arrangements. We were supposed to come in 1922 but the quota was filled up and we couldn't come in. END OF SIDE A, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE B, TAPE ONE

MOORE:

All right, so your mother got the letter in the field...

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And what was the delay? You said the quota...

KRAVICH:

The quota in America was filled. We had to wait. We were supposed to come in 1922, but due to that we had to wait to 1923.

MOORE:

Now, who was paying for you voyage over?

KRAVICH:

Father. My father had paid everything down to the, to the food. He even buy on the way from New York to Pittsburgh we got a box, box packet, a box, box lunch.

MOORE:

You got a box lunch.

KRAVICH:

And I saw bananas. It went out the window.

MOORE:

You threw the banana out the window?

KRAVICH:

Because I didn't know what was banana.

MOORE:

Now, back in, in Austria did you ever go hungry ever?

KRAVICH:

Not really. Not really. I worked in Graz for a while and that wasn't such a nice place for elderly people. I was a housekeeper. I was a housekeeper...

MOORE:

In Austria?

KRAVICH:

In Austria. I was only fifteen years old. I was a housekeeper.

MOORE:

You became a housekeeper after you went through school?

KRAVICH:

After that, uh huh. After I went to that school.

MOORE:

And why was that not a nice place to work?

KRAVICH:

Oh, because I had to prepare meals for them and they ate everything, you know, nothing for me left over. That's why. (she laughs)

MOORE:

Oh, I see, and so you lived with them.

KRAVICH:

Yes, I lived with them. Yes.

MOORE:

And what was the name of that family?

KRAVICH:

I wouldn't know. I'm sorry.

MOORE:

Was that in town or out of town?

KRAVICH:

Yes. In Graz. That was a big, big town.

MOORE:

So you left home to...

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Work there. And how much were you given as pay for that? Do you remember?

KRAVICH:

I, I, I got paid but I don't know what. I wouldn't know. I don't remember.

MOORE:

All right, so, you were there from when you were fifteen and you came to the United States when you were sixteen...

KRAVICH:

From there. From that place I went to leave from, from that place where I worked, where I was a housekeeper, I went on the boat.

MOORE:

Now, how did you know it was time to go on the boat? Who notified you about the quota system being open?

KRAVICH:

Oh, evidently probably Mother did know. I didn't, probably did. We were supposed to leave. We had, we supposed to come on, on, ah, in Hamburg on the fifth of, the fifth of June and we managed to get there.

MOORE:

Now how did you get from, do you remember, what did you mother have to do to prepare to leave?

KRAVICH:

Pack. Pack. Pack and, ah...

MOORE:

Did she have to sell anything?

KRAVICH:

No, no, no. Mother had no, no, nothing. We left everything, what I had. She had, she was prepared to open a, Mother hoping that Father gonna come to Europe, you know, someday. And she was always preparing for that but, ah, we were, she was living with her aunt. But when we, when it reversed that we can't live there and came over here, we, ah, she left everything, everything there for her aunt and her children to take, and her son, to take it and then the Russians took everything anyway.

MOORE:

Now, when you said that your mother was waiting for your father possibly to come to Europe, what was she going to do, what were her plans if she came here?

KRAVICH:

Yes, she was planning that she hoped that she'd have a, buy a home and settle the house. And settle up like a, like a, but he didn't want to come back.

MOORE:

Now, okay, so when you, you packed, you said, what did you pack actually?

KRAVICH:

Clothes, that's all.

MOORE:

Clothes. Did you have an, what did you wear when left, do you remember?

KRAVICH:

A suit. A suit. I remember that.

MOORE:

What color suit?

KRAVICH:

Oh, goodness. Now she wants, I wouldn't know. I...

MOORE:

Now, where did...

KRAVICH:

A gray suit.

MOORE:

Was it a new suit or...

KRAVICH:

Gray. A gray suit, I had. And then I had dresses. Dresses.

MOORE:

Did you bring anything special with you? Anything religious? Any photos? Anything from home?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Do you have anything at all surviving from Austria?

KRAVICH:

I really don't.

MOORE:

So you had just your clothing?

KRAVICH:

I just had my clothing and...

MOORE:

Food? Did you bring any food?

KRAVICH:

No, no, no.

MOORE:

No.

KRAVICH:

It wasn't allowed anyway.

MOORE:

Now did you have a medical examination before you came?

KRAVICH:

No. No, not a medical but I had to have some kind of papers to, with me that I was, ah, in German it's ah, I'm tolerable person, you know Mother and both of her...

MOORE:

That you had, you had a good reputation.

KRAVICH:

Repu-, yeah. That's all.

MOORE:

And so you had those papers. Now, who arranged the passports for you?

KRAVICH:

Evidently my mother did, probably.

MOORE:

All right, so you were working in the other city at that time. All right, so the day came to leave. Where did you leave from? Home?

KRAVICH:

No, I came from that place where I was houseworking, where I was doing, where I was housekeeper.

MOORE:

And what was their reaction to you leaving?

KRAVICH:

Well, they, ah, they didn't like the idea of me going because I was cheap labor. But, ah, I was glad to get out because I, I just was hungry. I was a growing girl and I needed a lot of food.

MOORE:

And so you left right from there...

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Where did you meet your mother, then?

KRAVICH:

My mother met me in Graz.

MOORE:

Hm hm. And how did she come from home to Graz?

KRAVICH:

We got, we got, by train.

MOORE:

By train.

KRAVICH:

Ah hah. And then we got, we had to go through Germany in a...

MOORE:

And how did you get through Germany?

KRAVICH:

On the train?

MOORE:

Hm hm.

KRAVICH:

I'll never forget it because, ah, there was no place for us to sit and we were sitting on a suitcase. You know there was not the room to sit.

MOORE:

On you own suitcase?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, on our own suitcase.

MOORE:

For how long was that trip, then, from home to Hamburg?

KRAVICH:

I think it was only a day.

MOORE:

A day?

KRAVICH:

I think so.

MOORE:

And what did you eat on the way?

KRAVICH:

I don't know. We didn't eat anything. (they laugh.)

MOORE:

Okay, so you got to Hamburg.

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Do you remember seeing the boat for the first time?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, well, when I, when I walked on that's when I find it out. I'd never seen the sea before.

MOORE:

You had never seen the sea?

KRAVICH:

The sea before, you know.

MOORE:

What is the biggest body of water you had seen before that?

KRAVICH:

Mur and that's a pretty big, that's like a river here, you know.

MOORE:

Did you have to stay overnight before you left in Hamburg? Did you stay overnight?

KRAVICH:

No, I don't think. I think when, I don't remember. I don't think we did.

MOORE:

So you got on the boat. Tell me about this boat. What was its name?

KRAVICH:

Albert Ballin. It's a German and a new one, Albert Ballin.

MOORE:

Albert Ballin. That's spelled...

KRAVICH:

B-A-L-L-A-E-N.

MOORE:

I-N.

KRAVICH:

I-N. Ballin, Ballin, yeah.

MOORE:

Yeah, I have it written here B-A-L-L-I-N. Now, on your application you said here that this was a wonderful trip.

KRAVICH:

It was.

MOORE:

Well, this is one of the first times I've heard this, so why don't you tell me why it was wonderful. Tell me about the boat.

KRAVICH:

Well it was, it was new. It smelled of paint. It was really, it was just, everything was new. And ah, where, the people who were on it was all German people, of course, you know, and, ah, that was nice...

MOORE:

Were they going to the United States for the same reasons you were?

KRAVICH:

Yes. They all come to the United, a man that I was, ah, sitting along much with, he went to Milwaukee. I remember that. And then his...

MOORE:

Where did you stay in the boat? What class did you travel?

KRAVICH:

Ah, the third class.

MOORE:

Third class. Now tell me about your accommodations. What were they like?

KRAVICH:

Well, it was a little cube and it has double beds, you know, ah, bunk.

MOORE:

A cabin? Did you have your own cabin?

KRAVICH:

Yes, we had our own cabin.

MOORE:

It was not open, it was a cabin?

KRAVICH:

It was a cabin.

MOORE:

With your own bunk beds?

KRAVICH:

With our own bunk beds.

MOORE:

Did they provide sheets and linens?

KRAVICH:

Yes. Yes.

MOORE:

Who was in your cabin with you?

KRAVICH:

Mother. Mother was in the bottom and I was on the top.

MOORE:

And you were the only two in there?

KRAVICH:

The only two, one down, one up.

MOORE:

And you were in third class?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Now, did you have any friends from the same town who came?

KRAVICH:

No. No, nobody, I don't think very many from Austria came there.

MOORE:

But Germans.

KRAVICH:

Yeah, the Austrian people. I guess they're pleased where they are. (she laughs)

MOORE:

Okay, and what about the food on the boat?

KRAVICH:

Oh, it was delicious. De-licious. I never forget. And every day we have a dessert which was jello and they have this kind of sauce on top of it. And I never find that what they used to this day.

MOORE:

Had you ever eaten jello before?

KRAVICH:

I had eaten jello but I didn't know what kind of a sauce they used. They put over it.

MOORE:

And what was the dining, was there a dining room?

KRAVICH:

Dining room.

MOORE:

What was it like?

KRAVICH:

It was a beautiful dining room and, ah, and good, ah, stewards. Wonderful. And, ah...

MOORE:

Now, the dining room, how was it arranged in the dining...

KRAVICH:

Well, well, there was a long, long table. There was a long table and when you sit on, not, not in little table, it was a long table.

MOORE:

And how did you get your food?

KRAVICH:

They bring us.

MOORE:

You were served?

KRAVICH:

We were served.

MOORE:

And the tables, what did you eat off of?

KRAVICH:

Oh, plates.

MOORE:

I know. Were they plate plates, were they tin or were they glass

KRAVICH:

I don't know the plate plates. That was ceramic.

MOORE:

Ceramic?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

And did you have table cloths?

KRAVICH:

I think they did, yeah.

MOORE:

So it was rather well done..

KRAVICH:

Nicely, really.

MOORE:

And what about the voyage? Was the voyage rough or smooth or were conditions on the sea...

KRAVICH:

It was nice up to the middle then we had a little storm one time and the water come up to the deck, you know. And then, of course, I didn't have no time to think of the water. I...

MOORE:

You didn't have any time to think of the water?

KRAVICH:

To think of the water on the deck.

MOORE:

Why not?

KRAVICH:

Because they have a good time going to see the boat, to see the whole ship.

MOORE:

Now, you had a good time seeing the whole ship...

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

With whom?

KRAVICH:

Two sailors.

MOORE:

Ah hah. (they laugh) So the two sailors. You didn't think about the water.

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

No. Where was Mother at this time?

KRAVICH:

She was in her cabin.

MOORE:

Why?

KRAVICH:

She was sick.

MOORE:

She was sick.

KRAVICH:

She was sick. Yeah.

MOORE:

And these two sailors, they sh...

KRAVICH:

They took me to, the took me from, from, ah, from the top of the boat to the, to the, to the top to the bottom. I mean, ah, from the front to the back. I see the machines was making where they, mechanics and I, I just seen the whole thing and where they have their bedrooms.

MOORE:

Uh huh.

KRAVICH:

The sailors' bedrooms, too.

MOORE:

You saw the sailors' bedrooms, too. (Mrs. Kravich laughs) All right. So, and, ah, did you, did they take you to any social activities?

KRAVICH:

Yes, we went to concerts.

MOORE:

You went to a concert?

KRAVICH:

Uh huh. One evening.

MOORE:

What did your mother think about this?

KRAVICH:

Mother loved it. She said go ahead and go and enjoy it.

MOORE:

And did they ask permission or anything?

KRAVICH:

Yes, they did. They ask if they are allowed to take me and she says go ahead and take her. Well, you can't go wrong in a place like that. It was nice. It was really nice, ah, nice evening.

MOORE:

So you went to a concert. What was playing?

KRAVICH:

That I don't remember.

MOORE:

(laughing) Oh. All right. So um, so how long was...

KRAVICH:

That was lo...

MOORE:

How long was the voyage?

KRAVICH:

Eleven days.

MOORE:

Eleven days.

KRAVICH:

Uh huh. Eleven days. Like I say, we came, we came Saturday on to the, to the, um, to the dock we got on to America on Saturday and then we had to wait for Sunday and stay in. All we were doing was walking around and then, ah, and see, and looked at Ellis Island around everything.

MOORE:

Well, let's back up just a little bit now. Now, you had eleven days of fun. Weren't you sick at all if there was a storm?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. Well, I got sick. I got one, I got, ah, sick one day but, ah, it didn't bother me. I just, ah, I just passed it up. I had too much good time to think of, to think of being sick. (they laugh)

MOORE:

Now, was your mother sick, then?

KRAVICH:

Yes. My mother was...

MOORE:

How often? How long?

KRAVICH:

She was pretty, she was pretty well in the cabin most of the time.

MOORE:

So who did you eat your meals with if your mom was sick?

KRAVICH:

I just eat it with the other people.

MOORE:

Did you ever eat in other classes like first or second...

KRAVICH:

No, no, no. We got our, they, we got called by bells. You know, they ring one bell and two bells and three bells and we have to go the two bells I think...

MOORE:

Was there anything that you hadn't ever eaten before that you like that was on the boat served?

KRAVICH:

I couldn't remember that.

MOORE:

Do you remember anything, did you ever get to see the ocean at all? Do you remember anything different like?

KRAVICH:

Well, it's fun to be in the middle of the ocean and you're don't see nothing but the, the heaven and the water.

MOORE:

Were you on deck very much?

KRAVICH:

Yes, I was. We had a nice, ah, we had see, we had the music there in the afternoon.

MOORE:

Music?

KRAVICH:

And then we had also, we also had lunches.

MOORE:

What, did you have any dancing?

KRAVICH:

No, I don't remember any dancing. I don't think any, I don't remember any dancing.

MOORE:

So were you happy to see land?

KRAVICH:

Yes, I was.

MOORE:

(she laughs) Okay.

KRAVICH:

Very much.

MOORE:

And what was the first thing you remember?

KRAVICH:

Well, I don't know what, I couldn't tell you except, ah, that we went to Ellis Island, there.

MOORE:

Did you see the Statue of Liberty?

KRAVICH:

Yes, we did.

MOORE:

And...

KRAVICH:

We was looking at it all day Sunday. (they laugh)

MOORE:

Okay, so, but I mean as the boat pulled in to the harbor what was the first thing you saw? Was it the Statue of Liberty?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, that's the firs thing you see.

MOORE:

And what was the reaction on the boat to that? Did it mean anything to you?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, it's the liberty. You know, freedom. (?)

MOORE:

And so you stayed right there...

KRAVICH:

We stayed in the boat all day and then we went on all day long, it's just like I say. We just looked around. There's nothing to see except the Statue of Liberty. That's all you can see. You know, and nothing but a lot of buildings, you know. And then when we, Monday morning when we get off then begin to, to Ellis Island.

MOORE:

How did you get from the boat to Ellis Island?

KRAVICH:

Oh, there was small, little...

MOORE:

Little boats?

KRAVICH:

Little, small things.

MOORE:

And how many people were put in the boat, do you think?

KRAVICH:

Oh, I think it's about five, six.

MOORE:

The small boat was...

KRAVICH:

Small, very small boat.

MOORE:

And as you went into Ellis Island what do you remember?

KRAVICH:

Well, I don't know. There was a great big middle thing to go in and, ah, there was partitions that we went, we went in to register.

MOORE:

And did you ever have any feeling that you might be rejected at all?

KRAVICH:

Not 'til the examination.

MOORE:

And what about...

KRAVICH:

Not 'til that. It's when they, when we had, when we, ah, when we had to disrobe and be examined.

MOORE:

Okay, you had to be examin-, you had to take your clothes off?

KRAVICH:

All of it. And put them in a bag.

MOORE:

Everything?

KRAVICH:

Everything. Everything.

MOORE:

Shoes?

KRAVICH:

Shoes, yes. Everything went in, went in a, in a duffel bag with our name on it that went to be sterilized. That's the reason I thought America was perfect. (they laugh)

MOORE:

Because you thought you had to be perfect before you got there?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. Yeah. And we had to be examined by two doctors.

MOORE:

So had you ever been without clothes in front of people before?

KRAVICH:

No. No.

MOORE:

At home had you ever been?

KRAVICH:

No. Never. Never.

MOORE:

So what was that like?

KRAVICH:

It was terrible, embarrassing. But like I say they give you a, give a little bit tiny towel and you don't know where you put it. The best thing would be to put in your eyes. (they laugh)

MOORE:

To put the towel over your eyes?

KRAVICH:

Yeah. You can't see it. Because it was so small and you have to go to front of the doctors and I was embarrassed. Never were, never at the doctor. I mean, ah, naked in front of a doctor or anybody.

MOORE:

And where was you mother during all this?

KRAVICH:

Mother was about four, five in back of us. She was fro-, she wouldn't be with me.

MOORE:

Why not?

KRAVICH:

Well, I think they, I think she was embarrassed. I imagine.

MOORE:

Were they female or male doctors?

KRAVICH:

Male. Young male doctors.

MOORE:

Young male doctors.

KRAVICH:

Two young, young male doctors.

MOORE:

Okay, and they speak English.

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

German?

KRAVICH:

German.

MOORE:

Now, do they speak German or English?

KRAVICH:

There, no, English. English, yeah.

MOORE:

And you on, you didn't speak any English?

MOORE:

They put you on the side?

KRAVICH:

Nothing. Nothing.

MOORE:

And the doctors spoke English to you?

KRAVICH:

Yes, and he just, they were talking together when they came to me. They examined me. Then they both said, "Let's put her aside." And then my, my mother saw me that I, I am out of the row, you know? Put on the side there.

MOORE:

They put you on the side?

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And did they explain to you why?

KRAVICH:

No. There was somethings wrong my neck.

MOORE:

But did you understand them?

KRAVICH:

Well, something was wrong with my neck. I don't know. No, I don't. And, ah, then my mother naturally started to cry. But then the doctor, the other doctor, looked over and he said no let's, go ahead.

MOORE:

When you said something wrong with your neck what did you think it was?

KRAVICH:

A goiter.

MOORE:

A...

KRAVICH:

That's what I thought...

MOORE:

Thyroid?

KRAVICH:

Thyroid, that probably, that's what they thought.

MOORE:

So they thought you had a thyroid problem. Did you know that immediately?

KRAVICH:

No. Never had any troubles.

MOORE:

Right. Did you, when the doctors told you about that did they, were they, did they have a translator at all for you? Did anybody translate?

KRAVICH:

I don't remember that all kinds of, I remember that they were looking at my neck, you know. And examining what they wanted to know.

MOORE:

So at that point did you feel fearful that you'd be rejected

KRAVICH:

Yes, I was.

MOORE:

And was your mother?

KRAVICH:

Yes, very much. She started crying. They can't (?)

MOORE:

And what, did she get through easily?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, she went through.

MOORE:

So once the second doctor said everything was all right, what happened then?

KRAVICH:

I got, got in a row. Go back in my row where I belonged.

MOORE:

With no clothes on?

KRAVICH:

Without clothes on, uh huh. I had to wait 'til the clothes comes to the, they have to go, we have to go into a cabin to find our clothes.

MOORE:

And how many people were in this room waiting for the doctor, would you say?

KRAVICH:

Ah, my God, there was hundreds.

MOORE:

Hundreds of nude people?

KRAVICH:

I imagine that there must have been. With the children and, ah, girls and women.

MOORE:

Now, okay, so you went back and got your clothes. Okay, did you see any people rejected at all?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Did you, were there people crying or anything like that?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

No.

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

So you were the only one taken aside?

KRAVICH:

I don't, yeah, the only one that, that I, that I remember that put me aside.

MOORE:

Were the doctors polite to you?

KRAVICH:

Yes, they were just like doctors.

MOORE:

But very young. (they laugh) All right, so you went back to get your clothes. And what happened then?

KRAVICH:

I don't know. I don't remember. That was next morning. That was, that was, that was on Monday, Monday, Tuesday, that was Monday. Then Tuesday morning get up and we get dressed and we get, go to our destination. You know, wherever...

MOORE:

So you stayed overnight at Ellis Island?

KRAVICH:

Yes. We stayed overnight.

MOORE:

Do you know why you were to, you stayed overnight?

KRAVICH:

I don't know. We all, we all stayed there overnight.

MOORE:

All of the other passengers in third class?

KRAVICH:

I think we did. No, no, the third class, yes.

MOORE:

Where did you sleep?

KRAVICH:

Bunk beds.

MOORE:

You had bunk beds?

KRAVICH:

But there was a row. A row of bunk beds.

MOORE:

And were there, how many people were in a room?

KRAVICH:

Oh, my goodness, I couldn't, whole side of the boat, I mean there, in a room, there was just bunk beds after another.

MOORE:

Did you get anything to put over yourself?

KRAVICH:

Oh, well, we got our clothing.

MOORE:

Bedclothing?

KRAVICH:

We got clothes for ourselves...

MOORE:

You got clothes to sleep in?

KRAVICH:

Well, I imagine that there was a, blankets and everything. No blankets. Is hot in summer in June, you know. But I remember just going to bed. And get up in the morning and...

MOORE:

Did you eat there?

KRAVICH:

Yes, I think, probably. I don't remember anything about food. I could somehow or the other that...

MOORE:

Now, did you have any conversations or meet any other Austrians there?

KRAVICH:

No. Unfortunately, no.

MOORE:

So, you got up the next day and you're waiting to go to your port or destination. What happened then, the next morning?

KRAVICH:

Well, we, we have to report and then where we have to go that they give us a, after, they gave us a, a lunch box and we go on a train. They had to because nobody...

MOORE:

And did you have, were you identified at all?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Did they give you any tags?

KRAVICH:

Yes, we, we all had tags on.

MOORE:

Name tags?

KRAVICH:

Name tags. And the destination.

MOORE:

You had a name tag and your destination on you...

KRAVICH:

Destination. Uh, huh.

MOORE:

And a lunch box.

KRAVICH:

And a lunch...

MOORE:

Box lunch. How did your, was your father waiting for you somewhere?

KRAVICH:

No. That's the trouble. That, that, that's what, they were, they were looking. Nowhere was anybody come to get us. And no, and he arranged it to take us to to Pittsburgh on a train. And he came to P(?) and I was to Pennsylvania. So...

MOORE:

He came to the wrong place?

KRAVICH:

Yes. And they...

MOORE:

Now, what do you remember about that? Now, before we talk about the train trip out there, what's your over all impression of Ellis Island when you look back on that whole experience at Ellis Island? How would you, how would you describe it?

KRAVICH:

It wasn't too bad. Ah, it was, ah, the only thing I didn't like it being nude.

MOORE:

Okay.

KRAVICH:

All the rest was fine, you know. I could put up with everything else. But that they could omit.

MOORE:

Okay, so you and your Mom were bound for what town?

KRAVICH:

Pittsburgh.

MOORE:

Pittsburgh.

KRAVICH:

Hm hm. And then that's what the ,ah, the girls whoever at the train, they, ah, arranged, put us on Pennsylvania Station. They put us because we didn't know. We didn't know. So, when we got into Pittsburgh here, then they have the, they got a taxicab and it gets me home.

MOORE:

And what was your impression of the train trip?

KRAVICH:

I wasn't bad. It was all right. We had...

MOORE:

Were you with your mother?

KRAVICH:

Yes. Yes. Uh huh. Yeah. Well, train trip, you know, in Europe is always train. (she hits her microphone accidentally) All right, I'm sorry.

MOORE:

And so you got into the, got into the cab to go home. And what was your first impression about your new home in, in Pittsburgh

KRAVICH:

You want truthful?

MOORE:

Yeah, I want truth.

KRAVICH:

Not a bit nice. I was very disappointed. We come to the row house, row houses. I never seen a row house before except in the cities when they, you know, how cities, but I never seen a row houses before. I would call it a barn, you know. And then, then, ah, I was there. I was very disappointed.

MOORE:

Did you feel that where you came from was better, were better conditions?

KRAVICH:

Yes, absolutely.

MOORE:

And did you ever, you mentioned earlier you wrote home to Austria about this. How did you describe where you lived?

KRAVICH:

Well, I describe it that there were animals live better and nicer places than we are.

MOORE:

Animals live better in Austria?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, because they are, really, I was so disappointed. To be into the row house. I'd never seen any in my life.

MOORE:

And did you tell this to your father?

KRAVICH:

Well, no, no. I accepted, accept anything. I was glad that I got here.

MOORE:

Hm hm.

KRAVICH:

And I vowed then that no matter what happens I'm going pray for him as long as I live. For that he give me the privilege to come to America.

MOORE:

And was, what was his reaction to see you?

KRAVICH:

He was, he was fine. He was very nice. Very, very, he was disappointed because he couldn't meet us, that I had to get home on a taxi cab but he was very nice. Well, I had (?) that evening he took me to the store and got me a, I come, I think he, I don't know what time he came in the afternoon. And,ah, he bought me some clothes. He didn't like the clothes I had. (Ms. Moore laughs) And told me next morning there is a Cruickshank's around the corner and they, they,ah, was time for berries to, to, ah, clean berries. And he said, ah, a lady's going to take you to work.

MOORE:

So you had work arranged for the very next day?

KRAVICH:

Next day. That's the, how they did it.

MOORE:

When he got you clothes what did he buy you for clothes? What did...

KRAVICH:

To go to work.

MOORE:

He bought you work clothes.

KRAVICH:

(laughing) Work clothes is right.

MOORE:

Oh, so he took you right out to buy work clothes.

KRAVICH:

That's right. That we did.

MOORE:

Okay, and what kind, type of place was that? A factory was it?

KRAVICH:

Yes, a factory. Cruickshank's factory. Cruickshank's pickle factory.

MOORE:

It was a pickle factory.

KRAVICH:

Ah, huh.

MOORE:

And what were you doing in the pickle factory?

KRAVICH:

Well, they had strawberries in there...

MOORE:

Jelly?

KRAVICH:

Jellies. They made jellies.

MOORE:

A jelly factory.

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Jelly and pickles.

KRAVICH:

Yeah. But then it was, ah, strawberry season.

MOORE:

Ah huh.

KRAVICH:

See, that they bring the strawberries to make jelly out of it.

MOORE:

Hm hm.

KRAVICH:

And what we had to do is get the greens off the, off the strawberries.

MOORE:

So you picked the green part from the strawberries.

KRAVICH:

Yeah, strawberries.

MOORE:

Now...

KRAVICH:

All day long I got a paid piecework.

MOORE:

But did you, you got paid per strawberry?

KRAVICH:

No, but they were how many boxes you emptied.

MOORE:

Ah, huh. How many boxes, Okay. How did they explain this to you? Did you speak any English?

KRAVICH:

No, but I happened to have a German boss. And he would tell me. He didn't want to talk. He says, "You have to learn English." And, ah, he, ah, he, he'd try to talk English but he also tried to, I, I didn't understand so he had to to it in German.

MOORE:

And did anybody make fun of you for being German?

KRAVICH:

How did you ask me that...

MOORE:

Austrian. Yeah.

KRAVICH:

How did you ask me? Yes. There was a boys there, young boys and they thought they're going have their fun. And they says, and they call, called me and then they'd say, all, all I could understand is kiss, give me a kiss. I understand that. (Ms. Moore laughs)

MOORE:

And where'd you learn that?

KRAVICH:

They, no, they told me. They, they hollered that to me. And I want to tell, I said to a girl that I knew that she, was Slovak, but I could understand a little Slovak. And she said, "Tell him mind your own business." So...

MOORE:

That was the first thing you learned?

KRAVICH:

The first thing I learned was mind...

MOORE:

The first thing in English was, "Mind your own business"?

KRAVICH:

"Mind your own business" (they laugh) And I was afraid to say their own, see, and I said, "Mind your business."

MOORE:

"Mind your business."

KRAVICH:

Yeah. I was afraid to put the 'own' in because I didn't think that would sound good.

MOORE:

So, "Mind your business," is your first words...

KRAVICH:

That's what my first (she laughs)...

MOORE:

Did they ever call you any names?

KRAVICH:

No. No.

MOORE:

So you learned, "Mind your business," and the from then on the rest of the English language.

KRAVICH:

Well, I went to school. I, and, then in October there was a night school not far away from us at Manchester and, ah, I went and entered right away. To learn, ah, English, English language.

MOORE:

To get back to the row house you lived in, what was the address of that row house?

KRAVICH:

Roller Street. Don't know the number no more but I remember the, it's, it's Roller Street that's where I...

MOORE:

Roller Street?

KRAVICH:

Roller, ah, huh.

MOORE:

And explain to me about the inside of that house a bit. Um, did you have conditions, how were the conditions in that row house...

KRAVICH:

Well, it was just a little, the, all the houses were the same. There were living room and a kitchen and two bedrooms upstairs and that's it.

MOORE:

And how about, was there...

KRAVICH:

And our cellar.

MOORE:

How was it lit, the house?

KRAVICH:

Oh, we had electricity.

MOORE:

You had electricity.

KRAVICH:

Oh, we, yeah.

MOORE:

Okay, we take a little break and go to the next tape.

KRAVICH:

I'm too long winded, am I?

MOORE:

No. END OF SIDE B, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE A, TAPE 2

MOORE:

All right, now, this row house.

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Um, how about plumbing? What about the plumbing?

KRAVICH:

Outside.

MOORE:

Outside toilets.

KRAVICH:

Outside plumbing, yes.

MOORE:

And what about water? Was there running water?

KRAVICH:

There was rnning water, uh huh, but we didn't have no bathroom. We have to get washed like the old ways in a tub.

MOORE:

And how did your, What was your father doing at that time?

KRAVICH:

Well, my, my father was working the lumberyards.

MOORE:

He was working...

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

What was he doing at the lumberyards?

KRAVICH:

He was a, he was a laborer in the lumberyard. He was working there, I think, thirty-three years. I think it was for Brookman and that was sold to Williams. Anyway, that was close. People that time didn't want to move, go, they want to go far away from work and that's why they worked in the (?) Street.

MOORE:

Now, did your mother go to work?

KRAVICH:

Yes, she went to pickles, Cruickshank's pickle factory.

MOORE:

So you went together?

KRAVICH:

We went together.

MOORE:

Did she learn any English there?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, she did, she did pretty good in English before she died. She really was very, we did pretty good.

MOORE:

And so how did your mother and father, oh, all right, how did your father adjust to life here in the United States? Did he adjust?

KRAVICH:

Well, I tell you. We, well, he, he adjusted himself good because he got married and, before I was, before I came, you know, and his wife died. I said that before. And...

MOORE:

Was his wife American or...

KRAVICH:

Yeah. She was, she was a Croatian.

MOORE:

She was Croatian?

KRAVICH:

Hm hm.

MOORE:

Okay.

KRAVICH:

And when she died he moved with her,with her, with his wife's sister and her husband. And that's where he, and he had, he had a daughter, he, ah, Anna. And she was seven years old when I was come to Europe, from Europe. And, ah, he was, ah, they lived there with their sister-in-law and worked, you know. Whatever's paying work there, pay once a month or once a week, I don't know how they did it. And, ah, he wanted us to stay there but the only was to get away from, the only way to get him out of, out of, out of that, that clutches of hers, ah, I have to get married. I have found a wonderful man.

MOORE:

Now, how did you meet your husband?

KRAVICH:

He was sitting across the street. There were three guys there and I say, point out and I say to my, ah, the one in the middle, I like him.

MOORE:

Who did you say that to?

KRAVICH:

To my, my little sister. She was seven years old at that time.

MOORE:

You said, you looked at three men across the street and you said I like the one in the middle.

KRAVICH:

Yeah. Middle. And he...

MOORE:

How did you know that?

KRAVICH:

I don't know. (she clears her throat) It's a destiny. But, but, ah, he came, he met me, that happened he was in boarding by, by their friends.

MOORE:

Hm hm. Have a little drink there first, though. Okay.

KRAVICH:

He was boarding at a friend's house, at their friend's house, and we went there and that's when I met him. And he said, ah, and right away it take off and, ah, later on he came to my father when I was at work and ask him if he can keep company with me and Father says, "Well, it's up to her. She's very young, but it's up to her." And naturally he met him and we went together for about nine months. But we were not allowed we stay out late. Nine o'clodk we have to be home.

MOORE:

You had to be home at nine o'clock?

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

When did you get out of work?

KRAVICH:

Five.

MOORE:

So you had between five and nine?

KRAVICH:

No, you have to eat supper.

MOORE:

Oh, you had to come home for supper, too?

KRAVICH:

(she laughs)Yeah.

MOORE:

So, you came home, you ate supper and then you had a few hours.

KRAVICH:

Yeah, two, three hours we was allowed to go out.

MOORE:

What was he doing at that time?

KRAVICH:

My, who, my husband?

MOORE:

Yes.

KRAVICH:

That, he was a, in Standard Sanitary he was a foreman. He was a foreman in the Standard Sanitary. That's where, that's gone out too now.

MOORE:

And so, um... Now, what was his name, your husband's name?

KRAVICH:

John. John Kravich.

MOORE:

John. And his family background was...

KRAVICH:

We, he came from Europe also, from Croatia.

MOORE:

So he was first in this country...

KRAVICH:

Yeah, he came, he came, he came, I think, in 1911. I think. And, ah...

MOORE:

Was he older than you?

KRAVICH:

Yes, he was a, ten years older than I am.

MOORE:

So...

KRAVICH:

But he was a wonderful man and he was the father, a father, how do you call it?

MOORE:

Figure?

KRAVICH:

Figure, hm hm, to me. You know.

MOORE:

So he took care of you?

KRAVICH:

He took, he, he just, he had a girl to get married before I came here and they were looking, were engaged. They were looking for apartments and then I come in and it changed his mind.

MOORE:

How'd you do that?

KRAVICH:

Well, I don't know. (they laugh.) I, he just, that was, that was the end of, end of the other girl. But he stayed with, with all his friends with her parents and her, you know, they were always nice. They weren't unfriendly or anything, you know, but he just changed his mind, he just wanted me. And, ah...

MOORE:

So you got married then within a year?

KRAVICH:

Within a year. I married, I came in July the 18, 17 and following June I got married the seventh.

MOORE:

And what year was that, now, 192...

KRAVICH:

1924.

MOORE:

'4. 1924. And so then what happened? You had children?

KRAVICH:

One year later. (she laughs)

MOORE:

One year later you had a child

KRAVICH:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Your first child?

KRAVICH:

Cecilia, she's here now.

MOORE:

What are your children's names?

KRAVICH:

We, Cecilia, she was first, then after six years Marcella and after thirteen years I had John.

MOORE:

(she laughs) And the same father?

KRAVICH:

Oh, sure, yes.

MOORE:

And you stayed married...

KRAVICH:

And I never had nobody, no, I don't want nobody, God can have my husband, he's died, I don't want nobody.

MOORE:

How long were you married?

KRAVICH:

Thirty-three years.

MOORE:

And did he stay a...

KRAVICH:

He was, had a heart attack. He had a heart trouble.

MOORE:

And was he working at the same place?

KRAVICH:

Yes, he was, he was working, ah, at, ah, Standard. They, they closed. And when they closed he get a job at, ah, oh, ah, United I don't know what. I can't think of it right now. And, ah...

MOORE:

Carbide?

VOICE OFF-MIKE:

Kirby?

MOORE:

Kirby?

KRAVICH:

No, no, United, ah, end of Butler Street somewhere. I can't think of it.

MOORE:

That's all right. That's all right, now, now how, what did your mother, you mentioned later that your mother came to live with you but how did she adjust to life here, your mom? Did she learn English well?

KRAVICH:

She learned English well and she worked all her life.

MOORE:

And she worked where?

KRAVICH:

She was working Cruickshank's and Cruickshank closed 19-, in sixteen years. And then she went to restaurant and worked.

MOORE:

A where?

KRAVICH:

Restaurant.

MOORE:

A restaurant and worked?

KRAVICH:

Downtown and she worked a restaurant for five years for one and for fourteen years another one.

MOORE:

And what did she do in the restaurant?

KRAVICH:

Salad. She was always a salad person.

MOORE:

Salad?

KRAVICH:

Hm hm.

MOORE:

And so she worked, ah, and then she lived...

KRAVICH:

She was seventy-five when they said she had to quit.

MOORE:

Seventy-five years old?

KRAVICH:

Seventy-five years old. Then she lived there, we thought, we thought it's going to be her end of her because she worked all her life, you know. That's all she did is work and garden. That was her hobby. And crocheting. That was her hobby.

MOORE:

Now do you think that your father and mother, did they ever want to go back to live in Europe?

KRAVICH:

No.

MOORE:

Either of them?

KRAVICH:

Mother, Mother didn't even want to think about it. She didn't want to go over there. I couldn't afford it anyway.

MOORE:

Did you, what language did you speak with your mother then when you came here?

KRAVICH:

We were, Croatian. It's Slovenian sort of, you know? See, we were, now we go back again to the, to Europe. Where we are, we are so close to cross the border to Slovenian. It's Yugoslavian now. At that time was Slovenian, you know. (she coughs) And he, we spoke the lo... I spoke the Slovenian before I talked the German because the schools and the church was German but I, we, at home we talked Slovenian.

MOORE:

So you talked Slovenian to your mother?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

To your father?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Slovenian?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

What about to your children? What did you speak?

KRAVICH:

They didn't want to learn how to speak. (she laughs) They didn't want it. "Talk English so I can understand."

MOORE:

Did you ever talk Slovenian?

KRAVICH:

I wish they would.

MOORE:

Did you ever talk with your husband? What did you speak?

KRAVICH:

All the time. Hm hm.

MOORE:

Slovenian?

KRAVICH:

Yes.

MOORE:

Was, was, did you speak when you didn't want the children to understand?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, but I tell you, I tell you, the trouble is I needed to learn how to English so he didn't want to use too much of Slovenian English because I needed, needed the English. And I was working very hard when I went to school and, ah, and, and I used to take paper and read it. I didn't know what I was reading but I was reading.

MOORE:

And what did you work, did you, when you had children, did you go back to work ever?

KRAVICH:

No, no, I never went. I always take care of the house 'til, 'til my husband got a heart attack and then I had to go to work.

MOORE:

And where did you go to work?

KRAVICH:

I started out housework for a while and then I got, I went to a night school, a place for nursing. And I took nursing up and later I worked sixteen years for a home nursing and after that I went to twelve and a half years as a house mother at the same hospital. It's a hospital for nurses, where they both of them graduate.

MOORE:

Now, you went back to school to be a nurse. How old were you then?

KRAVICH:

I was forty-five.

MOORE:

Forty-five and did you go to school with your same, graduate the same time as your daughter, then? In nursing?

KRAVICH:

In fact, in fact, I think either Marcy or Cecilia or one of them, one of them, that's Marcella, I think, she graduated, I had to make my own test the day before because I had to go graduation the same day that they graduate practical nurses.

MOORE:

So you, yeah, so you were graduating the same time as your daughters.

KRAVICH:

Yeah, yes, yes.

MOORE:

And your daughters are nurses?

KRAVICH:

Both of them.

MOORE:

Both of them.

KRAVICH:

Yes. They're RN's.

MOORE:

And your son?

KRAVICH:

He is in food service.

MOORE:

And now, when you look back on your life did you, how do you feel about your original decision to come to this country?

KRAVICH:

Oh, it was a good one. And, well, I thank God every day that I am here.

MOORE:

Have you ever, you wanted to go back to see it...

KRAVICH:

To see it but I don't want it.

MOORE:

And when you see it what do you see when you go back? What does it feel like?

KRAVICH:

The first time I was there back, I left 1923 and I, the first time I come in 1981. I was disappointed. I see riches. The cousins, you know their children, you know, cousins, we were cousins with their children. They're, they're, they're in money. They have a, a nursery. I don't know how many hot houses they have.

MOORE:

You mean the things that you left?

KRAVICH:

Ye... when I left there was nothing.

MOORE:

And when you went back they were, they were prosperous.

KRAVICH:

They were prosperous. Very much.

MOORE:

And did the area, was it as beautiful as you remember it?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, but older. The trees were bigger and the house was same, you know, but...

MOORE:

And so you never wanted to go back, though.

KRAVICH:

No. I could see it and visit but I don't want part of it.

MOORE:

How do you feel yourself as a nationality? Do you think of yourself, what nationality do you feel?

KRAVICH:

I don't know what you, what you mean.

MOORE:

Do you feel still that you're Austrian or do you feel that you're American or...

KRAVICH:

I'm American. I'm American, by all means. I will, I, ah, I like Austria. It's nice but I like, I like this, I like this country. I really love it. Because it really, it really brought me, I got a home over my roof, you know what I mean? And, ah, I got three lovely children. I don't know if I would have this over there or not.

MOORE:

And do you think your mother, how did you mother feel about that decision?

KRAVICH:

Yeah, Mother did like it because I took care of her, Mother. See, Mother always stayed with me, as I said before, when I got married I said to my boyfriend, at that time he didn't ask me to marry, I said to him, "Only way I marry you, if you take my mother and father with us." And he was willing. He says, "I don't have my parents but I'd be glad to have yours." And we lived together twenty years. Then Father died. And then my husband died ten years later. And my mother died.

MOORE:

So you think your mother was happy being...

KRAVICH:

Yes, I think she did. I think she was very, She was happy. I know she was happy because I took care of her. I took, I'd wash her clothes. I, I, she, when she was in the restaurant in Oakland, I let her work there. She worked there. She got herself a job as a restaurant salad girl and, ah, every week we'd bring her home. Every weekend she spent home and she was, ah, ah, she was, had a, she enjoyed the little time we had. She got to garden. As long as she had her garden and she got her, she was happy.

MOORE:

Did your, have your children expressed any interest in learning about, ah, where you came from?

KRAVICH:

I think so. Cecilia does. I know, I know. And Marcy, too. But they, they want to know more about it and, ah, and of course Cecilia, if it wouldn't be for Cecilia, if it wouldn't be for Cecilia I wouldn't have a chance to go to Europe. But, ah, she went in 1980 with a, with a school. With a college went to Europe, to Salzburg, to Austria. And, ah, she told me come back and she says, "Mother, we going go next year." And I says, "Oh, you're kidding." And by God, she worked it out and we went next year, 1981. And I says, "I want to go to see Zelting, Radkersburg, you know, my familiar place." And we did that.

MOORE:

Well, I'd like to thank you on behalf of Ellis Island for helping us and sharing this story with us and we'll send you a copy as well, and for your family.

KRAVICH:

Thank you. Thank you.

MOORE:

And, um, this is Kate Moore signing off on July 18th, 19th, 19th, sorry, 1994 with Mary Kravich in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for the Ellis Island Oral History Project.