HISTORIAN'S NOTE:

Mr. Pedicini is also being interviewed by Peter Kaplan

CLOUTIER:

December 8, 1983, this is Dennis Cloutier with the Oral -- Ellis Island Oral History Program. And what is your name, sir?

PEDICINI:

My name is Ralph Pedicini.

CLOUTIER:

Ralph Pedicini. And that means?

PEDICINI:

Small feet

CLOUTIER:

Small feet (laughs) would you spell that, please?

KAPLAN:

Why don't you get him to spell that?

PEDICINI:

He underst—he understands a little bit.

CLOUTIER:

Would you spell that please?

PEDICINI:

P-E-D-I-C-I-N-I. Trou—you can spell that.

KAPLAN:

Pedicini - small feet.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Small feet.

CLOUTIER:

Where did you come from, sir?

PEDICINI:

From Benevento. CLOUTIER Bevenento?

PEDICINI:

Benevento

CLOUTIER:

How do you spell that?

PEDICINI:

B-N-E-V-E-N-T-O, Benevento, near Naples.

CLOUTIER:

Near Naples.

KAPLAN:

In the south.

PEDICINI:

South. It's south.

KAPLAN:

Near Napoli.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. I come here with the Conte Verde, cross trip with the Conte Verde - ship..

CLOUTIER:

The sh--

PEDICINI:

The ship was name the Conte Verde.

CLOUTIER:

Conte Verde.

PEDICINI:

Verde, V-E-R-D-E. Verde.

CLOUTIER:

Did you travel alone when you came over?

PEDICINI:

Alone.

CLOUTIER:

All alone. How old were you when you came over?

PEDICINI:

A lot of people on the ship.

CLOUTIER:

Oh sure, but no family.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

CLOUTIER:

How old were you?

PEDICINI:

Oh, I was about twenty-four.

CLOUTIER:

Twenty-four.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

CLOUTIER:

When were you born?

PEDICINI:

I born 1898.

CLOUTIER:

1998 - 18--.

PEDICINI:

18—

CLOUTIER:

1898.

PEDICINI:

That's right. Quite a few years.

CLOUTIER:

Quite a few years. Why did you leave?

PEDICINI:

Why I come in this country?

CLOUTIER:

Yes.

PEDICINI:

I come in a town is call Foglianisi, Foglianisi. Just a moment., I just--

CLOUTIER:

Okay. [papers rustling]

PEDICINI:

F-O-G-L-I--- L-I-A-N-S-E. Foglianisi.

CLOUTIER:

Foglianise. And that's the name of the ship.

PEDICINI:

That's the name of the town. The ship was the Conte -- Conte Verde.

KAPLAN:

V-E-R-D-E.

PEDICINI:

That's right. It was a new ship.

CLOUTIER:

A new ship.

PEDICINI:

It was no grand just I got sleep up on the - wire. In third class, they go bed. CLOUTIER; Third class there's no bed.

PEDICINI:

Just a blanket up the wire.

CLOUTIER:

Oh no. Third class there was no bed.

PEDICINI:

I remember because I cut my finger over the wire when I come --.

KAPLAN:

It was on a wire you slept?

PEDICINI:

That's right.

KAPLAN:

You mean like a--

PEDICINI:

A blanket get up on a wire so because it was - the ship was completely - was completely first - second class but not third class.

KAPLAN:

So you were traveling in third class.

PEDICINI:

It was the first trip for the ship make. And the third class was from [not understood] .

KAPLAN:

And you were down where, way down?.

PEDICINI:

Way down, yeah.

KAPLAN:

Deep in the ship.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

KAPLAN:

And in other words you slept on like a hammock.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, Yeah. You got to go to a little - little - you got to go to a little - little cup to go get the food and drink, food, everything.

KAPLAN:

They gave you a little like--

PEDICINI:

Like a church, like in the army, a little--

KAPLAN:

Like in the army - like a tray.

PEDICINI:

That's right. Tray. That's right.

CLOUTIER:

How was the food?

PEDICINI:

Well, pretty good, because it was the sort of - the kind of food we use in the South. It was pretty good.

KAPLAN:

And where you slept in that room with all these, how many people were in there?

PEDICINI:

Oh, at least it was about a couple hundred people.

KAPLAN:

A couple of hundred people?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

And were there any windows?

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Was a lot of -- windows like over here - over there - like over there -- like that, small ones.

KAPLAN:

Small little windows. So you weren't below the water, you were--

PEDICINI:

No, it was below the water. It was below the water.

KAPLAN:

You were below the water?

PEDICINI:

It wasn't on top of the water, It was below the water.

KAPLAN:

So how did--

PEDICINI:

To see the water you got to go up. You got to go to second class, third class to see the water. And while we were - we were sleep and eat, it was under the water.

CLOUTIER:

Were you allowed up on deck?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Did you get sick?

PEDICINI:

No. Well, seasick, first time I got the seasick.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. No - no very bad but pretty -- pretty bad.

KAPLAN:

I think that you should make your noise (laughter)

CLOUTIER:

You got seasick pretty badly you say?

PEDICINI:

Well, me -- half and half..

KAPLAN:

What time of year was it coming over?

PEDICINI:

In October In October. Originally, I think it was 23 or 24 October. Was the San Gennaro feast in Newark.

KAPLAN:

Oh, right.

PEDICINI:

I come - I come in the ship, come in on Saturday. Sunday morning my uncle and my cousin comin' into Newa-- New York to sell always -- and a little back -- side of the ship. See we was on top to watch if people be - find you somewhere there - you somebody. And up there recognize you know, my uncle and my ni-- my cousin recognize me. He say, "Hello." And, "So I see you--I see you tomorrow", because my uncle he say was bricklayer. So he had to work comes Monday. "Your cousin come to pick you up in Ellis Island -in Island." And my cousin come to pick me up over there.

KAPLAN:

On the island.

PEDICINI:

On the island.

KAPLAN:

Ellis Island.

PEDICINI:

Ellis Island, yes.

KAPLAN:

So you spent time at Ellis Island.

PEDICINI:

I spent about two days.

KAPLAN:

Two days, and one night or two nights?

PEDICINI:

Two night. Two nights. Yeah, it was Sun—it was Saturday night and then Sunday night. And Monday my cousin come and pick me up. I was to go through examination and everything else.

CLOUTIER:

Did you have any problems on Ellis Island?

PEDICINI:

No, no. It was pretty -- pretty [not understood] . A lot of people with people. Some - some they send 'em back too.

CLOUTIER:

Were you afraid of being sent back?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. (laughs) If I go through. Sure I was afraid. You know I consider myself in pretty good - pretty good health at that time but still you know, when you reach some point you got maybe something happen.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah, you never know.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, especially that time you want to come.

CLOUTIER:

Right.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, sure. It was pretty tough. But after a while you see I tell my cousin and my uncle, my uncle was there. And he couldn't get no family over here, come to work too over here.

CLOUTIER:

You had no family over here.

PEDICINI:

No, no, just this, my uncle and my cousin, nobody else. Nobody else.

KAPLAN:

What about your, you left, how many brothers and sisters did you have?

PEDICINI:

On the other side? I - I left about two brothers and three sister and my father. My mother pass away in 19-- 1916.

CLOUTIER:

Why didn't they come with you, your family?

PEDICINI:

Because it was no allowed to come.

CLOUTIER:

They weren't allowed?

PEDICINI:

Immigration, no. I was last one to leave in my - my home town. After, immigration was closed. See, after that, too -- I was last -- last one to - to leave my town for that time. When he's left, it was because it was close. No more - no more quota.

CLOUTIER:

The quota was--

PEDICINI:

The quota, after quite a few years, it was renewed the quota again. But it was period of time there was no quota.

CLOUTIER:

You were lucky.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky.

KAPLAN:

Well how long, in other words, you applied to come to America?

PEDICINI:

Oh yes. Oh yes.

KAPLAN:

How long did it take from the time you applied?

PEDICINI:

Oh it seems like it went along. You see. This, my uncle was here -- in - in America. He make an application for me. He sends me money too because I was in Wa-- First World War and when I come back home I got no money. I got nothing. I got about - some -- some money from - some money from my uncle and he sends me application to come over here. I was broke after First World War. I go in the army, was eighteen years old. The time when I come back from the army and make an application for this country, I in no condition to do anything. Before the war, we wa—we was in pretty good condition because we my house, we got a bakery and a shoe make shop.

CLOUTIER:

You worked in a bakery?

PEDICINI:

You see. My mom - my mother, my grandmother - you got a big place to make the bread and to sell just where the town is somebody else town to come and to pick them up.

KAPLAN:

And your father had a shoe shop.

PEDICINI:

A shoe shop. It was myself, my father, another brother mine, and then a cousin mine, we got a shoe shop. We had a big shoe shop. After the war my mom pass away, my grandmother pass away. The (unintelligible) was small and go back and back and back. When I come back from the army get nothing to left. I got to come to this country.

CLOUTIER:

How long were you in the army for?

PEDICINI:

Oh from the eighteen -- seventeen, I go in at seventeen. I come back from the army was twenty year - I was only twenty.

KAPLAN:

So three years.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. I was in Turin - that be Turin that is when I was discharged from the Army. And that was the condition-- the house -- my house to get pretty bad. I want to stay in Turin because it begin to work and I have to - I was ready to go in the army.

CLOUTIER:

In where?

PEDICINI:

Turino, one of - one of the biggest city in Italy And then is my uncle begins to say, "Why don't you come to America? Why don't you come to America?" Just in time to come over here.

CLOUTIER:

What did you hear about America before you came?

PEDICINI:

Oh, it was a nice country, it was one of opportunity to make a better living. That's what I hear from that time. The time was very bad. I was pretty good, I manage pretty good because I got a little education in Italy. No in this country, I no go to school in this country. But a little English what I do it's in practical way. (Especial now it's worst yet because from the time I quit work, I talk Italian only over - over in my house and I forget even the little English that I just - that I just know before.) But I manage pretty good over here because I was a healthy male -- healthy man, healthy boy. I like to work. And I managed pretty good.

CLOUTIER:

And you had your trade.

PEDICINI:

I got my trade, sure. After - after '23, I comin' over here. In 19-- and then in 1960 [sic], I go back to Italy to get married.

KAPLAN:

You went back to Italy to get married?

PEDICINI:

Because I know the girl over there and we was engaged and I promise to go back and I went. That's right. That's right. And that -- you know, after couple of years of being in Italy, conditions pretty bad yet. And then people all borrow money and can't pay you back. (laughs) And then decided to come back again in this country. As soon I come back in this country, I get my citizenship paper. I call to my wife. And I raise my family over here. That time before I go back in order to get marry, I was in Long Island, Rockville Center, Long Island. That's where I make a little money.

KAPLAN:

Rockville Center?

PEDICINI:

Rockville Center, right. You know Rockville Center?

KAPLAN:

Oh sure.

PEDICINI:

This old time they found it - the [not understood] it was called a village. Now it's a big, quite a big city.

KAPLAN:

Sure.

PEDICINI:

Pastime too, lot nice people, too -- near the beach.

CLOUTIER:

So, when you got married over there -- you brought your wife right over?

PEDICINI:

Then come to Rockville Center, makin' the money. I go back over there to get marry. After I get marry, the little money what I make, I spend it for get marry, lend some money to brother and to sister. And I fixed to be broke again. And, as I learn, not to go and marry again. (coughs) And I come over here. My marriage before, was on Long Island and I did pretty good. But when I come back after I get marry, I don't want to go back in Long Is—in Long Island. Because when I was young at that time, like the woman, too. I like to fool around, too, by that time. KAPLAN (laughs) No.

PEDICINI:

(laughs) You know, that's my life. When I come back, It was - was marry, I said. I realize if I go back on Long Island, I begin the same sort of thing what I have been before. I said Island's regardless - - the family, it's no good, and I decide to stay New Jersey. And I stay some time.

CLOUTIER:

And you're still here.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, still over here. I was in S—I was in Summit. So I begin my business in Summit 1938.

KAPLAN:

Always as a shoe--

PEDICINI:

Sure,sure. 'cause I ma—I make shoes when I come over here to stay. After the Summit, I stay quite a few years. 1939, I buy first house. My children to get - to get big - want to go to college, I send them all to - to the college. And I work hard. But my children, [not understood] to everybody -- got good promotions for college. Worked in - the -- the girl got teach position. The boy got engineer position from Newark Engineer College. And then I say them I got to decide, I got to go to Italy myself again. I go to see - go see my people. 1960, I go in Italy again. And since 1960, I'll once in a while I back and forth. I go quite a few time.

CLOUTIER:

Has it changed quite a bit?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Italy is different country.

KAPLAN:

I used to live there.

PEDICINI:

What places?

KAPLAN:

Positano.

PEDICINI:

Posi-- oh, it's a beautiful place. .Oh, sure. Molto bello, si.

KAPLAN:

Between the Mafia.

PEDICINI:

Oh well, [not understood] -- all this location, it's beautiful, beautiful.

KAPLAN:

We were the only Americans in the village in 1955. I loved it.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, '55? Oh yes.

KAPLAN:

Sorry.

PEDICINI:

What I - what I don't know on -- in Italy, I know Sardinia and Sicily. The rest I know all over Italy, especially north, is beautiful place in the north, all the lake, all that mountain, all the big cities, oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

What's the lake up there--

PEDICINI:

Il Lago di Garda

KAPLAN:

Yeah. Como.

PEDICINI:

Como. Garda. All beautiful lake, oh yeah, it's a beautiful lake.

CLOUTIER:

What was your wife's name?

PEDICINI:

Ma-- Mari Grace. M -- Mary Grace. She pass away quite a few years ago.

CLOUTIER:

Right. When she came, when you came over with her, did you--

PEDICINI:

No, no, I come first because I got no citizen papers.

KAPLAN:

No, but when you came back over.

CLOUTIER:

Back with her as husband and wife.

PEDICINI:

No, she come alone.

CLOUTIER:

Oh, she came alone?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, she come some - some friend mine. Some friend my get marry in Italy - in Italy and she come back on that Italian line with his wife and himself and my wife. She come alone here.

CLOUTIER:

After you had come -

PEDICINI:

I come first. I get my citizen paper.

CLOUTIER:

Right.

PEDICINI:

And I send the money to - obligations - to -- she can comin' over here.

CLOUTIER:

Did she come through Ellis Island also?

PEDICINI:

No, no. She come right into, see Ellis Island was close in 1934.

CLOUTIER:

Right.

PEDICINI:

Last - last year it was - was open was in 1933. That's right. Oh yeah, I'm glad you know a little bit about Italy . Good life over there, that's the life. That's the life, singing song all the time.

CLOUTIER:

Does this look familiar at all?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, oh yeah. Of course. Oh sure.

CLOUTIER:

That's the Great Hall.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. I saw the bench. I say, "I used to sit around on this bench.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

CLOUTIER:

You spent most of your time in that room?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, sure, sure.

CLOUTIER:

Were you pretty impressed by the place?

PEDICINI:

Sure, very much, very much.

CLOUTIER:

Had you ever seen such a big building before?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, no, I never seen before, no.

CLOUTIER:

And when you stayed over night, did you stay in these rooms up above?

PEDICINI:

Up above, yeah. We had examination up there too.

CLOUTIER:

You what?

PEDICINI:

Exama-- doctor examination too. We get this doctor examination too.

CLOUTIER:

Doctor examination.

PEDICINI:

Physi-- physical examination, eye examination.

CLOUTIER:

What did they do to you?

KAPLAN:

Upstairs?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, upstairs, yeah. Sure.

CLOUTIER:

How did they examine you?

PEDICINI:

Well, like any doctor examine you. (laughs)

CLOUTIER:

Did they look in your eyes?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, sure.

CLOUTIER:

Did they use a button hook to flip your eyes up?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Were you afraid of that?

PEDICINI:

I was 'fraid, yeah. We call it congiuntivite.

KAPLAN:

Conjunctivitis, yeah.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, conjunctivitis. It's a -- was a real scare for that. But I, everything go through to me. Oh, yeah.

KAPLAN:

Was the doctor, was he gentle? Was he nice? Was he--

PEDICINI:

Oh the doctor was nice, yeah. Some personnel was a little rough but the doctor was nice.

CLOUTIER:

Did they look like this?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Uniforms like that?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah.

CLOUTIER:

See, that's what they're doing right there, they're flipping up the eyelids.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. You got a picture -- this picture from that time?

CLOUTIER:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

Yeah?

CLOUTIER:

Did it hurt?

PEDICINI:

No, no. I got to tell you - tell the truth, I got no complaint. I was a little scare. But was a - what I was treating - had no complaint, no. I spent just the night over there, so--

CLOUTIER:

Was it very crowded?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, all the ship, 'cause some of the other ship, too. See, only - not only Conte Verde, it was othe-- other ship, too. Think it was two or three.

CLOUTIER:

Do you remember how much it cost to come over?

PEDICINI:

I got to tell you, that I don't remember. It might be in the paper what I got, but I didn't see, could find out, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

If you still have the papers, yeah. But the Great Hall looked like that.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, same thing, same thing.

CLOUTIER:

The flag and the--

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. I get none -- paper impression at all. Just as you 'vive to me all that place, all the location, all the bench, all the - the corridor where you go to one place to the other. See, I remember that. After so many years still I remember. After so many years --

CLOUTIER:

Right, right. And how was the food there when you ate?

PEDICINI:

Well, it was pretty good. I can eat any thing because I--

KAPLAN:

He's going to show you some more.

PEDICINI:

Oh, oh. We'll see it. Oh, oh. Yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Is that what the dining hall looked like?

PEDICINI:

It's a bench what you eat.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, the bench where you eat. Yeah, it was the same.

CLOUTIER:

How was the food?

PEDICINI:

Well, to me it was no, no bad impression because can eat anything. It was young. At that age you can eat anything, especially I was in the army. See when I was in the army, it was up in le Alpi.

CLOUTIER:

You were what?

PEDICINI:

Up in le Alpi.

CLOUTIER:

Up in the Alps.

PEDICINI:

In the Alps. It wa-- if you don't sleep that time no on a regu— some— be-- bed or something. See, was so much sno— so much cold, it was thirty-two below zero whatever it was -- some times. We - we sleep in the - in the - in the snow, in the ice.

KAPLAN:

In the snow, you cut out holes.

PEDICINI:

That's right. We got sacks.

KAPLAN:

Yeah, sleeping bags.

PEDICINI:

Sleeping bag. You had to be nice. That's where you -- we sleep.

KAPLAN:

So this was luxury compared to that.

PEDICINI:

Oh sure, this is luxury. Sure.

KAPLAN:

And the food was much better.

PEDICINI:

At that time, if you remember, it was--you don't remember that, it was, maybe you can read about. It was a flu. It was called a Spagnolo. It was a bad flu in the years. Lot of the -- thousand, thousand people die, no only in Eur— in Europe, even in America. We call that Spagnolo, Spagnolo for the Spanish flu.

KAPLAN:

Spanish flu.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, many peo - many people die. There I gotta, what - what you call it when I was sleeping in that bag in the snow. We got some insect, you know, the— know -- you know, the kind they got then there.

KAPLAN:

Bed bugs?

PEDICINI:

Not go - no go in here, go over here and all that place, full.

CLOUTIER:

Like lice?

PEDICINI:

The - the - the skin was like that, it was like what you -- the thing what you gra—grated cheese, you know the kind of grated cheese?

KAPLAN:

Ticks?

PEDICINI:

Ticks, yeah. Same I (laughs) -- that's where - that's where the devil you know, to me. To - to wash -- to wash your face or to want to cook we got - we could find the ice to do that. Oh yeah, I got pretty tough in the young age. I manage to reach this - this age.

CLOUTIER:

(laughs) Did you see any food on Ellis Island you'd never seen before?

PEDICINI:

No.

CLOUTIER:

Bananas?

PEDICINI:

Oh, bananas, no. I never see bananas.

CLOUTIER:

Did you see them on Ellis?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, over there, yes.

CLOUTIER:

But you'd never seen them before?

PEDICINI:

No, never seen before, no.

KAPLAN:

What did you think of them when you saw it?

PEDICINI:

It was something like salami, something like - the false impression -- big salam-.

CLOUTIER:

Salami.

PEDICINI:

Some big salami. Something new to me.

CLOUTIER:

Did you know how to eat them?

PEDICINI:

Well, I see somebody else eat (laughs) -- eat the same way.

KAPLAN:

What did you think of it?

PEDICINI:

We don't - we don't grow there --the kind, the banana over in the south of my country. You know, South Italy. In South Italy, they call -- what you call the figs.

KAPLAN:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

A lot of figs, we eat too.

CLOUTIER:

Figs?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, figs. It's sweet --passito.

KAPLAN:

Figs and dates and--

PEDICINI:

Over here, cost -- you want to buy figs over here, it cost you a lot of money.

CLOUTIER:

Oh yeah, sure.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

So were you impressed by bananas and I mean like some of the fruit?

PEDICINI:

Oh, little - very little fr—little impression -- not a very bad impression. You know, it was no I choose to eat. Even now I eat very seldom. I like banana, but very seldom I eat them. Most of all I eat the [not understood] (coughs) grapes, things like that. Balon-. Yeah. Kaplan: Baloney.

PEDICINI:

What's that?. Balon-. Yeah. You know, there's something to ea--. Nothing is there. Yeah. [not understood] Yeah, I remember that.

CLOUTIER:

(laughs) Did you have any conflicts with anyone there?

PEDICINI:

No, no.

CLOUTIER:

With all the people crowded together?

PEDICINI:

No, no.

CLOUTIER:

No fighting?

PEDICINI:

No, no fight.

KAPLAN:

What about on the boat?

PEDICINI:

No, I manage pretty good. See, my life and all was just down the line. See, we -- just what I see. I went to the army. After the war, I stay in Turin. Turin is a big city. It is something like New York in con - in consideration. It attract [not understood] - some of - there's a such -- the type of fellow that can get along - get the - the type of fellow gets the way. See, that's a -- that's a - was my policy. That fellow can manage pretty good , he can get along in America. He is continue to [not understood] conduct. Otherwise if I don't like, I stay away. If there were some fight or some bad -- that case, something like that, drug, or even at the time was the drug. Cocaino we call them. Drugs, you know that stuff.

KAPLAN:

Cocaine.

CLOUTIER:

What's cocaine?

PEDICINI:

Cocaine, cocaine the white stuff. You know the white stuff.

CLOUTIER:

Huh?

PEDICINI:

Drug'

CLOUTIER:

The drugs. Cocaine. Cocaine.

PEDICINI:

Cocaine. That's sure. Cocaine they were call.

KAPLAN:

These are the guys that were baddies.

PEDICINI:

Was a friend of mine - was a friend of mine, he is rotten. I felt like 'the hell with him.' I said, "What you doin?" He said - He say, "I drink sweet wine and I eat this stuff and then go to hell and reach and dream sweet."

CLOUTIER:

Dream sweet.

PEDICINI:

He had a lot of contact with a woman or a girl.

CLOUTIER:

This is on the ship now?

PEDICINI:

No, no, no.

KAPLAN:

In Turino.

PEDICINI:

Before I come over here, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Oh, in Turino.

PEDICINI:

Also at that time, when I never - never care about a drug, no. Never care about a drug. Never and -[not understood]. That's why - -.

KAPLAN:

Were there any drugs on the ship?

PEDICINI:

No on the ship, no.

CLOUTIER:

Any drinking?

PEDICINI:

Might be today, but not at that time, no. A little drink, yeah. A little drink you can buy in the bar. Yeah, that you can do.

KAPLAN:

And in the hold, were they drinking much down there? What about--

PEDICINI:

Well there was, see the wine was no good. The wine they makin' with some stuff. Was - where -- there in the war was some stuff make wine, wasn't real wine.

KAPLAN:

What about smoking cigarettes? Was there much smoking cigarettes?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, you can smo—you can smoke - you can smoke a cigarette.

KAPLAN:

Yeah, but down in the hold of the ship, did it fill up with smoke and--

PEDICINI:

Well, what they get some air or something because there is the fumes from the cigarettes. There was too much fume coming.

KAPLAN:

What about the bathrooms, was there--

PEDICINI:

Bath -- bathroom was like, I can mention to you -- no regular bathroom like this. It was like you call a latrine.

KAPLAN:

Latrine.

PEDICINI:

They were round, they got a place they can - we all had to [not understood] all the time.

KAPLAN:

And everybody had to cue up to get into it.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

KAPLAN:

A lot of lines.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah. [not understood] if you remember - even some part in Naples - the low, low -- low part in Naples, you got to discover latrine and it stink a lot.

KAPLAN:

Yeah, yeah.

PEDICINI:

I can see some time even in this country some place like that years and years ago.

KAPLAN:

Sure, sure.

PEDICINI:

Sure. We - we got -- when I come over here first time, we got a two room, it was three, four people sleep and they eat (laughs) and they do the same thing in the same place. And then, on the side was a little box. We call them back -- back house.

CLOUTIER:

Back house?

PEDICINI:

Yeah. You go outside to do anything you want. Can't go inside.

CLOUTIER:

I heard there was a lot hanky panky going on -- in the boat, on the ships.

PEDICINI:

On the ship, yeah, yeah.

KAPLAN:

With girls.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Girls and boys.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah. You want to go for treat, for - for pleasure you buying her -- the same thing with the girl and boy. Was a lot. Was a lot.

KAPLAN:

What about the babies, were there many babies down in the hold and making a lot of noise?

PEDICINI:

That time there was no too many. Oh, it was quite a few maybe, yeah, because of come the family, husband, wife, and family - two, three children.

CLOUTIER:

And a lot of people getting sick.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. Oh yes, seasick. Yeah. Very seasick.

CLOUTIER:

It was pretty dirty.

PEDICINI:

Oh, it's a laugh. (laughs) Then you open the corridor, all the--

KAPLAN:

So the sanitary conditions were not--

PEDICINI:

Oh it was -no. That was no no. Sanitary conditions, help!.

KAPLAN:

But when you got to Ellis Island, it was pretty clean?

PEDICINI:

It was - it was pretty clean inside Ellis Island.

KAPLAN:

A lot of white.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty clean over there.

CLOUTIER:

Were they courteous to you, the inspectors?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, then again I tell you, was really rude, you know, straight. But no - is can give you bad impression. To me, I never get that impression. I got to -pass -- pass my visas. I got to stay in the - you know, like everybody else. But there's nobody bother me.

CLOUTIER:

Were you given an interpreter?

PEDICINI:

Oh yes, yeah, there were some interpreters, too.

CLOUTIER:

And there was no problem with language?

PEDICINI:

No, no, no. No just what I say, because I got a little education in my home town, I manage pretty good. But a lot Italian people didn't know how to write and read, was put in trouble.

CLOUTIER:

Did you see anything like this in the Great Hall?

PEDICINI:

Ah. Excuse me. Got my notes. One that I'll [not understood] Oh yeah, I remember it. You know what you - what impression give you that time. In my country, especial, in South Italy, you raise a lot of - lot of cow, a lot of things like that.

CLOUTIER:

Cattle, yeah.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Well (laughs) , this was almost the same at that time.

CLOUTIER:

(laughs) You felt like cows.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, cows inside. Yeah, I remember that. Just what I said, my memory -- my [not understood] is poor but my memory is pretty good yet.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

KAPLAN:

So you remember seeing the bars and they fed you in like cattle.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Sure.

CLOUTIER:

Now this is in the Great Hall.

PEDICINI:

In the Great Hall. Separated by the -- that was the separated by country of the people.

CLOUTIER:

They what?

PEDICINI:

To separate what country you come from.

CLOUTIER:

To separate what country you come from.

PEDICINI:

That's what I mean, yeah.

KAPLAN:

Separated from the (unintelligible), all the Italians go over--

PEDICINI:

Yeah, any nation. Because a lot of European people come that time.

CLOUTIER:

Did they give you a card, a tag?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, sure, sure.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah.

CLOUTIER:

With numbers?

PEDICINI:

Say tell a good number, especially with - that people go far away. Because to me, my cousin come to pick me up. It was very easy. Other people go in Massachusetts, or you know, in Ohio, any place, Pennsylvania, go for plaque with the name, what area take and what people gotta take care. They put the plaque on you.

CLOUTIER:

For what train they would take.

PEDICINI:

Sure. Otherwise, what do you know? You got to have somebody she gonna see you -- Pennsylvania or Ohio, have somebody else to pick you up sooner. From Ohio -- you got to go in Ohio, somebody gonna go the other state or somebody from the other state. And somebody pick you up and take care.

CLOUTIER:

What kind of luggage did you bring with you from Italy?

PEDICINI:

One sui-- I want to give you - I want to give you an impression. You want to come with, up the stairs --.

CLOUTIER:

No, after this.

PEDICINI:

Oh, after this. Still I got it. Wood, wood luggage.

CLOUTIER:

Wood luggage, yeah?

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

CLOUTIER:

And clothes or--

PEDICINI:

Clothes, and a big lock. I want to show it to you.

CLOUTIER:

Okay. And any heirlooms or pictures of the family or any--

PEDICINI:

Oh no, not at that time, no. Just personal - personal thing.

CLOUTIER:

Personal clothes?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, personal clothes, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

It took a lot of bravery to come over to America, leave everything behind.

PEDICINI:

Well I know it was bad to leave the family, even friend. But I was - I was out from my - my family for qui- two, three years because I was up in the army, up in the Alpi, at the - at the north. Turino is[not understood]. She was quite a way from - far away. I go back and forth quite a few time. But I wa-- was away from my house for over three years between the war and the time I stop to stay in Turino.

CLOUTIER:

Did you ever see your family again?

PEDICINI:

When?

CLOUTIER:

After you left, did you ever see your family again?

PEDICINI:

Af- after I left from - from Italy to come over here? Oh sure, sure.

CLOUTIER:

To get married.

PEDICINI:

My family - no, my brother and sister lot of time, I don't know if you lot of time. But my father pass away after the time I was in this country. I come in October, he pass away in March, double pneumonia.

KAPLAN:

Did your brother and sister, are they still in Italy?

PEDICINI:

Yeah. One in Rome, one in my home town, Benevento. And then I got another sister in— (phone rings)

CLOUTIER:

Okay, here we go.

PEDICINI:

What are we going to say now?

CLOUTIER:

You were , did you--

KAPLAN:

You were talking about your brother and your sister, You just said that--

CLOUTIER:

Yeah, I guess we finished that thought.

KAPLAN:

What I'd like to know--

PEDICINI:

I -- we talk about by what I gotta you in Italy. I got a sister and brother. One brother is in Rome and a sister is in Foglianisi, the same town where I come from. And I got a lot of niece all over, in Genoa, in Milan and Turino. My brothers is all over -- before the war. My brother's children come in this country last year to visit.

KAPLAN:

Oh, your brother's children came over.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Send them to school over there, get them [not understood] position. Every once in a while some relative come over here.

KAPLAN:

Do you still, when you said you came over here your uncle and your cousin came to meet you at Ellis.

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

KAPLAN:

Are you still friendly with your cousin?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. My - my uncle pass away. My cousin, yes, he's in Florida now.

KAPLAN:

Oh, he's down in Florida.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, he got some children in Summit and himself is in Florida.

CLOUTIER:

So they came out to the Island to greet you?

PEDICINI:

In comin' on in New York was on Saturday.

CLOUTIER:

In New York.

PEDICINI:

On Sunday, can't come on Sunday, and can't come either on Monday my uncle because he was bricklayer, he gotta to go to work. But Sund-- -- END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO [long pause]

KAPLAN:

Your uncle couldn't pick you up on Monday because he was working.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

KAPLAN:

But your cousin came over to Ellis Island to pick you up?

PEDICINI:

That's right. In New York we take tube. We going where we stop in Newark Station, Broad Street in Newark Station. .

KAPLAN:

You took the subway.

PEDICINI:

The subway. And from Newark Station, we walk up Clifton Ave near Branch Brook Park in Newark where was this location to room. We call 'em Porcarici [ph] It was my uncle..

KAPLAN:

When you came to Manhattan you went right over to New Jersey.

PEDICINI:

With the tube. That's right.

KAPLAN:

You didn't spend any time in New York.

PEDICINI:

No, no. Not the first time, no, not when I come here, no.

CLOUTIER:

How did you get to Manhattan?

PEDICINI:

With my bro—my cousin.

CLOUTIER:

No, by what vehicle, a boat?

PEDICINI:

With a boat -- boat, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Ferry boat?

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Like this?

PEDICINI:

That's right, yeah.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, yeah. Very good. Yeah, and then we go - go over the tube, no, it wasn't - was a tube at that time. We comin' through Harrison with - with a trolley car or something like that. There was no tube at that time.

CLOUTIER:

No tube?

PEDICINI:

No. We passed the river and then we took a trolley car to Harrison. And Harrison we're going Newark. In Newark, we reach this place where you call Porcarici [ph] . No, no, no. Now it comes around to me, we went into Hoboken.

CLOUTIER:

Hoboken?

PEDICINI:

Hoboken. Then we take the Lackawanna Sta-- train and we go in Newark and the Lackawanna is in Broad Street in Newark. Over there, we walk through Clifton Ave the location where was this Porcarici [ph]. You know Newark?

CLOUTIER:

Not very well.

KAPLAN:

I know a little bit about it.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Before it was a beautiful city when I come in this country. Now is no good. Lot of -- lot of mess.

CLOUTIER:

Were you impressed by New York City?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. Even Newark. Newark was--

CLOUTIER:

Even Newark.

PEDICINI:

Clean too, Newark was clean. Now it's not so good, lot of colored people. Not because I'm against, but tho-- these people take care. See it was -- originally it was a (unintelligible) and on this side of the Branch Brook Park. It was all clean. See all the region was a lot of doctor, a lot of dentist at that time, lawyer. It was a pretty good location. But now it's a mess. Yeah. I don't know.

KAPLAN:

What about when you -- first of all, on the boat, did you make any friends with anybody on the boat?

PEDICINI:

Of Italian people?

KAPLAN:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

Oh sure, lot of friend.

KAPLAN:

Do you see any of them? Have you ever kept up any of the friendships?

PEDICINI:

Sure. If you comin' - if you comin 'in Summit -- if you comin' in Summit, oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

In Summit, that live in Summit.

PEDICINI:

I stop in Newark first time. But after I comin' in Summit, right after bride come back from -- after I get married. The first time I - I comin' in this country, I stop in Newark. A lot of time, my - we good -- we comin' in same ship and comin' in Summit. Summit is, it's right over here. Maybe you go through Summit today.

KAPLAN:

Sure. No, I've been in Summit. So you kept up the friendship with these people that you met?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

That you met on board ship when you immigrated ?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, sure.

KAPLAN:

And you saw them over in Ellis Island I guess.

PEDICINI:

Even today I got a friend in Connecticut, who come - come - comin' together this country. Still we correspond and call one to the other once in a while, oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

Italian.

PEDICINI:

Italian, too.

KAPLAN:

I guess they were all Italians on the ship that you came over on.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, Italians. We leave in Naples on the Conte Verde.

KAPLAN:

Now, when you came over on the Conte Verde, when you approached America, did you go up on the deck to see America?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah. It was a lot you can see by people.

KAPLAN:

What was the first impression that you--

PEDICINI:

The big city. The big city.

KAPLAN:

What about the statue?

PEDICINI:

The Statu—the Statue of Liberty, yeah, we saw that too.

KAPLAN:

How did you feel when you saw that?

PEDICINI:

Oh sure, it was -- we read about it. We--

KAPLAN:

I don't know. This is what I'm trying to find out.

PEDICINI:

We know about, we know about the Statue of Liberty was in New York. And when we saw it was, it was makin' big impression.

KAPLAN:

What time, what impressed you about it? Was it--

PEDICINI:

It was emot - emotion running into our ship.

KAPLAN:

What did you feel?

PEDICINI:

Oh (laughs) what I gotta say? Inside, you know, here, you know what it is.

KAPLAN:

I want to know that.

PEDICINI:

You know what you, what do you feel when you find something you like? What do you feel, huh?

KAPLAN:

Well I remember my first impression when I saw Napoli or when I came in on the Independence, I was on the boat, the Independence. And I remember my feelings there.

PEDICINI:

When you reach Naples with - with the ship, do you give good impression, too, because Naple-- Naples you got a very beautiful view when you see you are - you know that.

KAPLAN:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

[not understood] .

KAPLAN:

But what I'm trying to find out is, we want to try to find out your impressions.

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

KAPLAN:

What you remember when you saw the Statue?

PEDICINI:

Might be something mysterious --- wasn't really [not understood]. See that's where - that's who -- because we're - in ba-- back in the tradition, Naples and New York was a great deals to me. It was something, you know, I can't believe. That's in that [not understood]

KAPLAN:

Yeah, you couldn't believe the whole thing.

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

KAPLAN:

It was so big and massive.

PEDICINI:

Sure. You mean that it is you don't see a -- no place is in that sure when you reach New York and people - you go out a very little from the house. Reaching New York, you see all the one -- one thousand view -- panorama, what you call in Italian - it's impression.

KAPLAN:

And what about, were you scared? Did you--

PEDICINI:

No, scared, no. I mean, in my life when I was scared, they just - they just - they just die - they just leave - I was scare. In the war, I was scared, because I know that -- fight and you shoot like hell, and I think the thing that we -- I go through--. What are you gonna care? What do you do?

KAPLAN:

What about when you came into New York harbor, did you come in at sunrise, at night or--

PEDICINI:

Oh, it was in the morning.

KAPLAN:

In the morning, early morning. So the lights weren't on -- on the Statue.

PEDICINI:

You - you see when you - begin in the morning into light a little bit, that's when we reach New York. See, it was in the morning.

CLOUTIER:

Sunrise.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, sunrise. Kaplan: Oh, so you saw the sunrise.

PEDICINI:

Right, sure.

KAPLAN:

So it must have been quite beautiful.

PEDICINI:

Oh beautiful, it was beautiful.

KAPLAN:

Now, when you got over to Ellis Island, you were over there--

PEDICINI:

Right over there, I was scared because everybody open to see if it's might be something wrong, we send you back. Over there, was scared.

KAPLAN:

You were scared.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, little over there. Yeah, I can tell you - yes. Over there I was scare.

KAPLAN:

But then at night, let's say after you went through your inspection, your physicals and you, could you walk around Ellis Island?

PEDICINI:

Sure. In that way --

KAPLAN:

On the grass and see--

PEDICINI:

Then you was free. Then it was free, then - then nobody bother you.

KAPLAN:

Find a nice little girl and--

PEDICINI:

Oh, cannot -- that time you do—you know how you feel for the [not understood] say I want to get off from the ship, I want to go in my - at home where I go and begin to - to make some money. (laughs)

KAPLAN:

Yeah.

PEDICINI:

Because I - I reach -- when I reach over here, I was broke. I look for something.

KAPLAN:

At night when you sat around Ellis Island out on the grass let's say, and maybe had a little salami or something.

PEDICINI:

No.

KAPLAN:

No food.

PEDICINI:

No food, no.

KAPLAN:

But you would go walking out on the grass.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, you can walk there.

KAPLAN:

Look out at New York.

PEDICINI:

Well, the food you can come inside when they give it to you. Outside, no.

KAPLAN:

But what about, did you--

PEDICINI:

You could see the wide - you could see the panorama of New York, you could see that, it's --.

KAPLAN:

T The lights of the city.

PEDICINI:

That's right.

KAPLAN:

And the Statue was lit up too?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, oh yeah. It was lights, sure, lights.

KAPLAN:

The Statue of Liberty was lit.

PEDICINI:

Sure, sure.

CLOUTIER:

Impressive, huh?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, to me it was impressive.

KAPLAN:

Did--

PEDICINI:

Newark [not understood] because I, even in Italy I see a -- the city, but no like New York.

KAPLAN:

Did any of the immigrants that were scared, did they try to swim from Ellis Island over to--

PEDICINI:

No, no.

KAPLAN:

--to New Jersey? It was pretty close.

PEDICINI:

Oh no, I don't think nobody could take a chance - I don't, you know, -- nobody talk about that.

KAPLAN:

I was just curious.

PEDICINI:

I can read about, see in that time can read about some time once in a while somebody get off the ship, they try to swim through.

CLOUTIER:

Did you know anyone that was sent back to their homeland?

PEDICINI:

No, personally, no. But I know some Italians, the face of the Italian people, but personally, no. See, I see some face yes, quite a few, especial for the eye.

CLOUTIER:

For their eyes?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, especial for the eye.

CLOUTIER:

Trachoma?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, trachoma, we call it congiuntivita.

KAPLAN:

I guess that was pretty sad for those people.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah, all cry.

KAPLAN:

Did they have them in handcuffs or they put--

PEDICINI:

No, no, no. No handcuff, no. Put 'em aside -- on the side, that's all. No No handcuff, no. No, they give you very bad thing for you -- people make a sacrifice and put the money up and everything else to come over here and when reach over here can't go through, you got to go back. That's was pretty bad.

CLOUTIER:

So when you got into America, what did you first do? You went to Jersey.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, Jersey, Newark.

CLOUTIER:

And then you got a job?

PEDICINI:

Yeah. When I find no job, I was shoemaker. Find no job to be in. It was qui— it was pretty tough. I begin to get my job, my regular work in the March the next year.

CLOUTIER:

Shoemaking.

PEDICINI:

Shoemaking.

KAPLAN:

Just when your father died.

PEDICINI:

That time the first job where I got in this country -- you remember that years ago was the - the radio, the dish, what do you call it, the phonograph - the phonograph, for the disc. Was the grill - no, the needles you know, the [not understood] , they make - what do you call it? -

CLOUTIER:

Phonograph?

PEDICINI:

Phonograph, that's right. And before was some on top, was some trumpet like a horn.

CLOUTIER:

Victrola?

PEDICINI:

That's right. That's where I - that's was my first work, I making [not understood] in Newark.

KAPLAN:

Oh, you made records?

PEDICINI:

No, I no makin' the records, it was the - it was the paper. You got to make them stick with shellac.

KAPLAN:

Oh, you made the trumpet.

PEDICINI:

The trumpet, that's right. After make it stick with the shellac and dry out, then you sand paper, you got to clean 'em up and make them smooth. I was comin' there for couple months. But I can't stand -- too much in dust.

KAPLAN:

Too much dust and smell.

PEDICINI:

Then I begin to find, finally, a shoemaking job in that work, I work for [not understood] all the time. See, I was pretty good shoemaker because I wanted be proud. I was a pretty good shoemaker in my time. I make new shoes. But over here - over here (coughs) soon a lot of store, lot of - lots of factory at the time -- was a dagger up for you. Remember? Do you know the name of that Johnson Murphy, Bannister, it was all good shoes that time. It was slow, couldn't find no job over there. That's what I like to do. And I begin with the repair. And that's where I have to begin with the repair. I would, you know, I manage pretty good. I learn the machine and I believe -- begin to work for myself. And that's what I did all the time.

CLOUTIER:

What type of shoes did you make?

PEDICINI:

N—new shoes, I make special shoes.

CLOUTIER:

Ladies shoes, men's shoes?

PEDICINI:

Men's shoes. No lady's shoes

CLOUTIER:

Men's shoes.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, men's shoes. Then when I was in begin the war it was, too busy with the repair. I discontinue because I make more money with the repair than making shoes, and I continue to repair. It was -- I was - I was in Summit - in one single location, sixteen years. See, employed two men and two boys in the shop..

CLOUTIER:

You did?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. There was a lot of work. That's why I manage it to do that way. In '39, I buy a first house and first car.

CLOUTIER:

You what?

PEDICINI:

In 1939, I buy the first house and the first car, a Dodge.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah, a Dodge.

PEDICINI:

And just I want to tell this story too. I drivin' that Dodge, that Dodge, since 1939. I got the license and never was stop all my life to drive 'bout ten - ten month ago, I think, over here. I was stopped because it was too fast - it was a school zone. Otherwise, nobody stopped me to - to find out if I got license or not. (laughs) Yeah.

KAPLAN:

In all these years.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, all these years.

CLOUTIER:

How about that.

PEDICINI:

Over here in Gillette, it was a school zone, it was about ten minutes till nine. (Unintelligible) nobody stop, nobody bother me. You know, I go forty-one mile an hour.

CLOUTIER:

A little fast. So how many children did you have?

PEDICINI:

Three.

CLOUTIER:

How many grandchildren do you have?

PEDICINI:

Oh, I got six.

CLOUTIER:

Six?

PEDICINI:

Yes.

CLOUTIER:

Do you often tell them about your trip through Ellis Island?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. We talk about it. They know. I could have --still I keep all my picture from that time.

CLOUTIER:

Yeah?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, a lot of picture. KAPLAN You have a lot of picture?

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah.

KAPLAN:

From Ellis or--

PEDICINI:

No, from m--- myself and from the -- my family, my family, my daughter, Marie, and my sons that time. I have picture to remember.

KAPLAN:

Oh, from when they were kids.

PEDICINI:

Even now, once in a while we make few, come Christmas time, Easter time, you know, we make some picture of the kids.

KAPLAN:

Yeah, you keep a lot of that stuff.

PEDICINI:

Yeah.

KAPLAN:

Do you have all your papers from when you immigrated?

PEDICINI:

Yeah, I show it to you.

KAPLAN:

Okay.

PEDICINI:

When you be through with this here.

CLOUTIER:

Do you think your life would have been a lot different if you had continued on in Italy?

PEDICINI:

W-- what?

CLOUTIER:

Do you think your life would have been different?

PEDICINI:

In Italy, well, I'll tell you one thing. It was a tough period time in the old time and even after the war. But now all my people, all my people manage very good there in Italy. Still my niece in Miran and my nephew in Miran, especially my brother in Rome. My brother in Rome, he got a two good children, both work when he done and go on veranda. And the one become Minister. Minister di Pubblica Istruzione

KAPLAN:

With the administration.

PEDICINI:

Good--

KAPLAN:

Public administration.

PEDICINI:

Public administration and Pubblica Istruzione - it's what you - what you call over here, public education

CLOUTIER:

Public education, yeah.

PEDICINI:

See it's one—one boy belongs to Minister [ph], that means he go travel all over Italy for the high school, for the college to control, see everything is all right. So I got a nice family.

CLOUTIER:

Do you still speak Italian to friends around here?

PEDICINI:

Oh sure. My children talk Italian.

CLOUTIER:

Oh do they?

PEDICINI:

That's why - that's why it's very little English what I know.

CLOUTIER:

Very good.

PEDICINI:

You d— you do for two reason, we like to speak Italian, keep the Italian language. Mean time you try to teach the grandchildren the same way.

KAPLAN:

Sure, you keep the tradition.

PEDICINI:

See I got this girl over here, both girl, one is major in Spanish. This is major in English, take Italian in - in college. The boy, he got the - the French, the Spanish, the English because he -- he is in the construction. You know what he is -- engineer -- hydraulic engineer. He make, he work on the --with the water.

KAPLAN:

With the water?

PEDICINI:

With the pipe, the water, the sea and this construction -- go all over the country to analyze. Was in San Diego quite a few times. And he got to conduct when this working man or people, he talk a little bit Spanish too.

KAPLAN:

Yeah, that's good.

PEDICINI:

See, it's a little tough for them.

KAPLAN:

But, in other words, you wanted to hold onto the tradition of what you had.

PEDICINI:

Sure.

KAPLAN:

You wanted to become an American but you didn't want to lose- -

PEDICINI:

No. Why, what for? What for ? Is a good country, is a nice country, what for? And today it's no good - it's good to know because you meet any - any kind of people. You never know.

CLOUTIER:

That's right.

PEDICINI:

No. I think about the people, [not understood] they want a language, so it's the best thing to do - to do today.

CLOUTIER:

It is.

PEDICINI:

Yeah, to my understand

KAPLAN:

Yeah, that's--

PEDICINI:

What are they gonna say to you?

CLOUTIER:

That sounds good. I guess that's about all actually.

KAPLAN:

Let's see what else. I'm just trying to think of anything else. I guess that's it.

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Just could show some pictures. You see so my case when I come the first time..

KAPLAN:

Your suitcase.

PEDICINI:

Oh yeah. We got to go upstairs a little.

CLOUTIER:

Thank you Ralph. INTERVIEW ENDS. [Recording is on during look at pictures, etc.]

PEDICINI:

I can't bring them down.

CLOUTIER:

Okay.

KAPLAN:

Okay, why don't we go upstairs? We'll look at your suitcase.

PEDICINI:

Okay. Don't forget this. KAPLAN Just for your journey, huh?

PEDICINI:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

KAPLAN:

: That's a beauty. Look at the way that's all mitred and.

CLOUTIER:

Wow. That's kind of nice. Kaplan: That's suits, or?

PEDICINI:

Suits but I [not understood] inside.

KAPLAN:

Yeah. What about any army boots or anything?

PEDICINI:

Army boots? No. No. Shoes.

CLOUTIER:

Your own shoes?

PEDICINI:

Shoes. That's what I make.

CLOUTIER:

And shoes you made. You still have those?

PEDICINI:

Oh no.

KAPLAN:

No. Yeah. Worn out.

PEDICINI:

Was good shoes that kind of time we use there. On the bottom was leather - on the bottom was leather [not understood] and on the top was a gabardine, how you call 'em.

KAPLAN:

Gabardino.

PEDICINI:

Gabardina. KAPLAN" Gabardina.

PEDICINI:

Was very expensive shoes.

CLOUTIER:

Were they fashion shoes?

PEDICINI:

I gonna - go to sh-- I want to show you some picture I have.

KAPLAN:

Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

PEDICINI:

What are you makin' laugh for? That's Kaplan: It's just that I think it's beautiful. You see, you're pretty chic. (laughs)

PEDICINI:

(laughs)

CLOUTIER:

You have your documents here - the papers, pictures?

PEDICINI:

No. It's all [not understood]

KAPLAN:

No. No. I mean your - the ones that - papers that you said you had..

PEDICINI:

[not understood]

KAPLAN:

This is you?

PEDICINI:

No. This. This is from friend.

KAPLAN:

Where is this - here in America?

PEDICINI:

In America. This in Italia when I was marry. [There is additional conversation similar to the above, mostly re-capping previous information and referencing records, etc.] NPS-147/PEDICINI